Not By Works

loveme1 · Oct 18, 2017

You should know that Paul taught the New Testament in place of the Old.

If you think that Keeping the Commandments is me blending Grace with Law then my word you really need to seek the Truth that sets you free.

It is one thing to remain Faithful to the New Husband and love and obey Him to then go off trying to revive the dead Husband by partaking in the Old Testament..

if a person is being compelled to be circumcised to be saved and to Keep the Law of Moses to be Righteous then by all means share what Paul wrote.. for He explains it well indeed.

But if a believer is sharing the New wine and proposing Faithfulness to the Lord's Testament.. refrain.. for all is written to affirm and expand on understanding since the New wine came to be shared for all to Believe whether of the circumcision or not.. all are able to receive the New wine by Grace through Faith... and that Faith is a New way of life in Christ.

loveme1 · Oct 18, 2017

Paul would never of condemned the Keeping of GOD's Law.. i know you are mistaken and may you not be charged.. but it is not fair to say Paul did. Whoever started this teaching is in error.

Paul was zealous for the Lord's Testimony and contended for the Faith.. but I state here and now Paul was not teaching any against the Commandments of GOD.. no.. He taught the New Covenant between GOD and His Creation through an ultimate act of Love toward us through His Beloved Son suffering to Redeem us.

PeterJens · Oct 18, 2017

dcontroversal said:

dc - This is just a crazy way of projecting things.

Does a fig tree produce other fruit than figs? Or does a thistle bush produce nice fruit or
only thistles?

So if you claim to follow Jesus, as Jesus says you show it by your heart. If your heart
testifies against you, then you have not discovered what Jesus is talking about.

The work is transformation in us, His Holy Spirit at work in us to perform His glorious
work. If you do not have this work, it testifies there is something wrong.
The work of revelation is the work of God. The truth is you do not know this work
in your life which is why you are perplexed and reject those that testify to Gods work
springing forth from within.

You could say a believer trusts in the God who has sealed them by the Holy Spirit.
We know we know God because we love Christ and His people.

Maybe this is not your testimony, which is why these words jar with you so much.
Listen to John

This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1 John 5:2

In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1 John 5:3-4

This is so obvious, yet for those to whom it testifies against, to stop this condemning
them, they must change its means to obey the commandments is just
to believe. But this makes language absurd and circular to stop this emotional
conflict. God is a God of action and behaviour. To know God is to know this.
If you do not love this God in this way, you do not know God, it is this blunt.

And the Lord will leave things as they are, because judgement in due course will
fall, for as all sinners will be judged, it will make no difference, for the folly of this
position is self evident, to believe in morality and not live it, is to condemn oneself
to destruction.

And if you want to test yourself, ask do you love Gods children here, not just those
who agree with you?

dcontroversal · Oct 18, 2017

loveme1 said:

If you have read anything I have written you would know that I have stated the above numerous times.......regardless....

O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you....having begun in the spirit are you now made perfect (complete) by the flesh (works of the law)

FAITH plus the WORKS OF THE LAW to FINISH, COMPLETE, EMBELLISH salvation or to make one COMPLETE or PERFECT is a gospel of heteros (a different kind) which is not ALLOS (the same kind) that PAUL preached and taught.

dcontroversal · Oct 18, 2017

PeterJens said:

dc - This is just a crazy way of projecting things.

Does a fig tree produce other fruit than figs? Or does a thistle bush produce nice fruit or
only thistles?

So if you claim to follow Jesus, as Jesus says you show it by your heart. If your heart
testifies against you, then you have not discovered what Jesus is talking about.

The work is transformation in us, His Holy Spirit at work in us to perform His glorious
work. If you do not have this work, it testifies there is something wrong.
The work of revelation is the work of God. The truth is you do not know this work
in your life which is why you are perplexed and reject those that testify to Gods work
springing forth from within.

You could say a believer trusts in the God who has sealed them by the Holy Spirit.
We know we know God because we love Christ and His people.

Maybe this is not your testimony, which is why these words jar with you so much.
Listen to John

This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1 John 5:2

In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1 John 5:3-4

This is so obvious, yet for those to whom it testifies against, to stop this condemning
them, they must change its means to obey the commandments is just
to believe. But this makes language absurd and circular to stop this emotional
conflict. God is a God of action and behaviour. To know God is to know this.
If you do not love this God in this way, you do not know God, it is this blunt.

And the Lord will leave things as they are, because judgement in due course will
fall, for as all sinners will be judged, it will make no difference, for the folly of this
position is self evident, to believe in morality and not live it, is to condemn oneself
to destruction.

And if you want to test yourself, ask do you love Gods children here, not just those
who agree with you?

What is crazy is taking 2 seconds to read your posts......where in my post did I mention fruit or works?

What do the following mean....

Beginner
Finish
Complete

and what part of JESUS doing all three in a believer do you not understand?
and what part of a man saying he does these things, undermines JESUS doing these things do you not understand?

PHart · Oct 18, 2017

Ralph- said:

Well, you sound like a regular ol' Scrooge, lol. Oh, wait.....I think that is Scrooge's story.

Ralph- said:

Either that or they just think it's okay to have an avatar of a crazed homicidal maniac but not okay to have one of a deceased comedian.

Hizikyah · Oct 18, 2017

loveme1 said:

These are actually Paul's words on keeping the Law;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God?"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."[/FONT]

PHart · Oct 18, 2017

blue_ladybug said:

Not scary?
He was asking me if I knew what time you go to bed, lol.

dcontroversal · Oct 18, 2017

Hizikyah said:

This one verse posted out of context proves how deceptive you really are......dude this is tragically deceptive......!

Hizikyah · Oct 18, 2017

dcontroversal said:

This was my post... One verse? Who is deceptive?

Hizikyah said:

These are actually Paul's words on keeping the Law;

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."

1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God?"

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."

Stop, all you do is accuse.

PeterJens · Oct 18, 2017

dcontroversal said:

You confuse justification with sanctification.
We are justified when we step out in faith.

But unless the work of sanctification is made complete in us it is all in vain.

It is like saying my finishing line is riding the bicycle to the end of the street,
dumping it there and going off and doing my own thing.

As long as we are here our calling is to continue throughout our lives.
Not because it earns salvation but because this is what we have become. To
stop dwelling in this shows one never truly arrived in the first place.

You do not respect the place Jesus has brought us into, because you are happy
not to stay there, and to devalue it to the degree to discount all the warnings He
brings to stay or die. So I know very well what Christ has done for all of us, and so
I desire to continually abide. It makes me wonder why you do not want to abide,
or even to grasp there is still much to learn and walk in.

Or have you reached the place of Holiness, purity and an example to us all, so there
is no need for you to grow in God grace and walk more deeply in His ways?

Studyman · Oct 18, 2017

gb9 said:

The New Testament was not included in any of the Gospel that Paul, Jesus, and Peter taught from. We are told to Study the Old Testament to "rightly divide the Word of God" and to show ourselves "Approved" of God. Jesus instructed those He taught to listen and do what the Old Testament says to do. Just not to do what the Mainstream Church preachers od His time did.

Paul calls the Old Testament "the Gospel of Christ" in Romans 1.

Given these Biblical facts, how can you preach that you are not taught to obey God's Commandments that Jesus and His Disciples walked in through out their entire lives?

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

Jesus said man lives (LIVES) by EVERY WORD that proceeds from God, not just a few scripture that can be used to justify peoples lifestyle or religions doctrines and traditions.

Maybe we would be wise to "Take Heed" when people, who come in Christ's Name, preach that we are now free to "Transgress the commandments of God by our own church traditions and doctrines.

Maybe the warnings of Jesus are something to take seriously.

dcontroversal · Oct 18, 2017

Hizikyah said:

ACTS 24...states NOTHING about KEEPING anything and states he BELIEVES ALL THINGS WRITTEN in the LAW and PROPHETS CONCERNING WHAT???????

You specifically took this verse out of context to set a stage that was not set by the verse.....that is deceptive no matter how you slice and dice....

NOW....give us the context of Paul's quote please!

dcontroversal · Oct 18, 2017

PeterJens said:

You confuse justification with sanctification.
We are justified when we step out in faith.

But unless the work of sanctification is made complete in us it is all in vain.

It is like saying my finishing line is riding the bicycle to the end of the street,
dumping it there and going off and doing my own thing.

As long as we are here our calling is to continue throughout our lives.
Not because it earns salvation but because this is what we have become. To
stop dwelling in this shows one never truly arrived in the first place.

You do not respect the place Jesus has brought us into, because you are happy
not to stay there, and to devalue it to the degree to discount all the warnings He
brings to stay or die. So I know very well what Christ has done for all of us, and so
I desire to continually abide. It makes me wonder why you do not want to abide,
or even to grasp there is still much to learn and walk in.

Or have you reached the place of Holiness, purity and an example to us all, so there
is no need for you to grow in God grace and walk more deeply in His ways?

Go study the dual application of sanctification.....as tied to justification we are sanctified eternally IN CHRIST the moment we believe.....

as far as our life is concerned it is a daily process of growth and maturity!! <--with successes and failures!

TruthTalk · Oct 18, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Good Afternoon Dcon, who said you cannot put "New Wine" into "Old Wine Skins", Please tell me in chapter and verse where the Apostle Paul taught, "the New Testament" "in place of the Old."

Adding to scripture what is clearly not there is a sin, so Loveme1 is a law breaker already.

"By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one "obsolete"; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear." Hebrews8:13

Originally Posted by loveme1

"You should know", that Paul taught, "the New Testament" "in place of the Old."

Hizikyah · Oct 18, 2017

Hizikyah said:

dcontroversal said:

Acts 24:10, "..I gladly defend myself,"

Acts 24:1-23, “And after five days the high priest Ḥananyah came down, with the elders, and a certain speaker – Tertullus. And they brought charges against Sha’ul before the governor. And when he was called upon, Tertullus began to accuse him, saying, “Having obtained great peace through you, and reforms being brought to this nation by your forethought, we accept it always and in all places, most excellent Felix, with all thanks. But in order not to hinder you any further, I beg you to hear us briefly in your gentleness. For having found this man a plague, who stirs up dissension among all the Yehuḏim throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Natsarenes, who also tried to profane the Set-apart Place, and whom we seized, and wished to judge him according to our law, but the commander Lysias came along and with much violence took him out of our hands, commanding his accusers to come to you. And by examining him yourself you shall be able to know all these matters of which we accuse him. And the Yehuḏim also agreed, maintaining that these matters were so."And when the governor had motioned him to speak, Sha’ul answered, “Knowing that for many years you have been a judge of this nation, I gladly defend myself, seeing you are able to know that it is not more than twelve days since I went up to Yerushalayim to worship. And they neither found me in the Set-apart Place disputing with anyone nor stirring up the crowd, either in the congregations or in the city. Nor are they able to prove the charges of which they now accuse me. But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy; so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets, having an expectation in Yah, which they themselves also wait for, that there is to be a resurrection of the dead, both of the righteous and the unrighteous. And in this I exercise myself to have a clear conscience toward Elohim and men always. And after many years I came to bring kind deeds to my nation and offerings, at which time certain Yehuḏim from Asia found me cleansed in the Set-apart Place, neither with a crowd nor with disturbance, who ought to be present before you to bring charges if they have any matter against me. Or else let these themselves say if they found any wrongdoing in me while I stood before the council, other than for this one declaration which I cried out, standing among them, ‘Concerning the resurrection of the dead I am being judged by you today.’ And having heard this, having known more exactly about the Way, Felix put them off, saying, “When Lysias the commander comes down, I shall decide your case. And he ordered the captain to keep Sha’ul and to have ease, and not to forbid any of his friends to attend to him."

Hizikyah · Oct 18, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Full context is in my prior post, and I think you have lost your mind...

◄ Acts 24:14 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,

New Living Translation
"But I admit that I follow the Way, which they call a cult. I worship the God of our ancestors, and I firmly believe the Jewish law and everything written in the prophets.

English Standard Version
But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,

Berean Study Bible
I do confess to you, however, that I worship the God of our fathers according to the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,

Berean Literal Bible
But I confess this to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I serve the God of our fathers, believing all things throughout the Law and that have been written in the Prophets,

New American Standard Bible
"But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;

King James Bible
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But I confess this to you: I worship my fathers' God according to the Way, which they call a sect, believing all the things that are written in the Law and in the Prophets.

International Standard Version
However, I admit to you that in accordance with the Way, which they call a heresy, I worship the God of our ancestors and believe in everything written in the Law and the Prophets.

NET Bible
But I confess this to you, that I worship the God of our ancestors according to the Way (which they call a sect), believing everything that is according to the law and that is written in the prophets.

New Heart English Bible
But this I confess to you, that after the Way, which they call a sect, so I serve the God of our fathers, believing all things which are according to the Law, and which are written in the Prophets;

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“And yet I confess this, that in the same doctrine of which they speak, I serve The God of my fathers, as I believe all things which are written in The Written Law and in The Prophets.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
But I'll admit to you that I'm a follower of the way [of Christ], which they call a sect. This means that I serve our ancestors' God and believe everything written in Moses' Teachings and the Prophets.

New American Standard 1977
“But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law, and that is written in the Prophets;

Jubilee Bible 2000
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call a sect, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets,

King James 2000 Bible
But this I confess unto you, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

American King James Version
But this I confess to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

American Standard Version
But this I confess unto thee, that after the Way which they call a sect, so serve I the God of our fathers, believing all things which are according to the law, and which are written in the prophets;

Douay-Rheims Bible
But this I confess to thee, that according to the way, which they call a heresy, so do I serve the Father and my God, believing all things which are written in the law and the prophets:

Darby Bible Translation
But this I avow to thee, that in the way which they call sect, so I serve my fathers' God, believing all things which are written throughout the law, and in the prophets;

English Revised Version
But this I confess unto thee, that after the Way which they call a sect, so serve I the God of our fathers, believing all things which are according to the law, and which are written in the prophets:

Webster's Bible Translation
But this I confess to thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Weymouth New Testament
But this I confess to you--that in the way which they style a heresy, I worship the God of our forefathers, believing everything that is taught in the Law or is written in the Prophets,

World English Bible
But this I confess to you, that after the Way, which they call a sect, so I serve the God of our fathers, believing all things which are according to the law, and which are written in the prophets;

Young's Literal Translation
'And I confess this to thee, that, according to the way that they call a sect, so serve I the God of the fathers, believing all things that in the law and the prophets have been written,

loveme1 · Oct 18, 2017

dcontroversal said:

So you then know Lord instructs us through His Testament and those that Love Him obey... that is believing..

Is that not what Faith that worketh by Love is? We are Loved and forgiven so go on to Love and forgive...

VCO · Oct 18, 2017

loveme1 said:

Many read James 2:22, and think "Oh I see, the Holy Spirit starts my faith, and then I have to perfect it." And because of that misunderstanding, even Martin Luther at one early point in his ministry, wanted throw the book of James out of the Bible. IT IS NOT BY THE INDIVIDUAL'S EFFORTS AT WORKS THAT OUR FAITH IS MADE PERFECT, WHICH WOULD CONSTITUTE AN ERROR IN DOCTRINE; BUT IN REALITY IT IS GOD THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND CHRIST IN US, CONTINUING TO WORK IN OUR HEARTS, THEREBY PERFECTING OUR FAITH. I see by your final statement that You believe all by the power of GOD given US, which is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Romans 4:3-5 (CSBBible)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not credited as a gift, but as something owed.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes on him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

Malachi 3:6 (ESV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] “For I the LORD do not change;
therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

THUS, ABRAHAM WAS MADE PERFECT BY GOD, APART FROM ANY WORKS.

DO WORKS PLAY A PART IN SALVATION? NO!

DO WORKS PLAY A PART IN RECEVING HEAVENLY REWARDS? YES!

ISN'T SALVATION A HEAVENLY REWARD? NO! IT IS A FREE GIFT OF GRACE.

HOW THEN IS FAITH PERFECTED?

Galatians 3:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Philippians 3:12 (ASV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect: but I press on, if so be that I may lay hold on that for which also I was laid hold on by Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 7:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Hebrews 10:14 (NIV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

James 1:17-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Every generous act and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights; with Him there is no variation or shadow cast by turning.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] By His own choice, He gave us a new birth by the message of truth so that we would be the firstfruits of His creatures.

Romans 5:17-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Since by the one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive the overflow of grace and the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] So then, as through one trespass there is condemnation for everyone, so also through one righteous act there is life-giving justification for everyone.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For just as through one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so also through the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.

Anyone wanting to get personal credit for any part of their FAITH, technically is committing a sin; and it reflects a LACK of TRUST IN CHRIST's CONTROL OF THEIR LIFE.

Hebrews 13:20-21 (YLT)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And the God of the peace, who did bring up out of the dead the great shepherd of the sheep--in the blood of an age-during covenant--our Lord Jesus,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] make you perfect in every good work to do His will, doing in you that which is well-pleasing before Him, through Jesus Christ, to whom is the glory--to the ages of the ages! Amen.

WE ALL NEED TO GIVE THE GLORY TO WHOM IT BELONGS, and stop patting ourselves on the back.

TruthTalk · Oct 18, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Amen Brother Dcon...

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