Not By Works

[gb9]

The New Testament was not included in any of the Gospel that Paul, Jesus, and Peter taught from. We are told to Study the Old Testament to "rightly divide the Word of God" and to show ourselves "Approved" of God. Jesus instructed those He taught to listen and do what the Old Testament says to do. Just not to do what the Mainstream Church preachers od His time did.

Paul calls the Old Testament "the Gospel of Christ" in Romans 1.

Given these Biblical facts, how can you preach that you are not taught to obey God's Commandments that Jesus and His Disciples walked in through out their entire lives?

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

Jesus said man lives (LIVES) by EVERY WORD that proceeds from God, not just a few scripture that can be used to justify peoples lifestyle or religions doctrines and traditions.

Maybe we would be wise to "Take Heed" when people, who come in Christ's Name, preach that we are now free to "Transgress the commandments of God by our own church traditions and doctrines.

Maybe the warnings of Jesus are something to take seriously.

Romans 1- Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle , set apart for the Gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through the profits , in the Holy Scriptures , concerning His Son, who was descended from David...........

through the profits , in the Holy Scripture. not the Gospel of God IS the O.T. the Gospel came though the profits in it.

study harder study man, some of us actually know the Bible, and are not going to allow this deception to go on unchecked.

we take the mis-use of God's written Word seriously.

 

[loveme1]

Good Afternoon Dcon, who said you cannot put "New Wine" into "Old Wine Skins", Please tell me in chapter and verse where the Apostle Paul taught, "the New Testament" "in place of the Old."

Adding to scripture what is clearly not there is a sin, so Loveme1 is a law breaker already.

"By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one "obsolete"; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear." Hebrews8:13

Originally Posted by loveme1

"You should know", that Paul taught, "the New Testament" "in place of the Old."

Are you being serious?

Hebrews 9

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.




Matthew 26


26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This one verse posted out of context proves how deceptive you really are......dude this is tragically deceptive......!

We need to be extremely careful in making such accusations. I don't believe Hizikyah is being deceptive at all. This is more a matter of failure to communicate properly (and he could have done a better job of tying together the Scriptures he quoted).

In that same post he has quoted 1 Cor 7:19, Rom 3:28,31;7:7. What these Scriptures say is that although no man can be justified by the works of the Law (Rom 3:28), it is the Law (the Ten Commandments) which governs our behavior and our attitudes after we are saved. In fact we establish the Law through Faith (as Paul writes) by (a) honestly admitting that we all are transgressors of the Law, (b) Christ died to meet the demands of the Law on our behalf. and (c) acknowledging that the New Birth includes God writing His Law in our hearts and minds, so that we regulate our lives according to that Law.

This in no way discounts the work of the Holy Spirit in empowering Christians to obey the Law of Christ (which is indeed within the Ten Commandments). The problem is that many Christians fail to understand that the Law of Love is also the Ten Commandments, and we cannot love God or neighbor by ignoring that. Please note what Paul has clearly explained (Rom 13:8-10):

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[dcontroversal]

Acts 24:10, "..I gladly defend myself,"

Acts 24:1-23, “And after five days the high priest Ḥananyah came down, with the elders, and a certain speaker – Tertullus. And they brought charges against Sha’ul before the governor. And when he was called upon, Tertullus began to accuse him, saying, “Having obtained great peace through you, and reforms being brought to this nation by your forethought, we accept it always and in all places, most excellent Felix, with all thanks. But in order not to hinder you any further, I beg you to hear us briefly in your gentleness. For having found this man a plague, who stirs up dissension among all the Yehuḏim throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Natsarenes, who also tried to profane the Set-apart Place, and whom we seized, and wished to judge him according to our law, but the commander Lysias came along and with much violence took him out of our hands, commanding his accusers to come to you. And by examining him yourself you shall be able to know all these matters of which we accuse him. And the Yehuḏim also agreed, maintaining that these matters were so."And when the governor had motioned him to speak, Sha’ul answered, “Knowing that for many years you have been a judge of this nation, I gladly defend myself, seeing you are able to know that it is not more than twelve days since I went up to Yerushalayim to worship. And they neither found me in the Set-apart Place disputing with anyone nor stirring up the crowd, either in the congregations or in the city. Nor are they able to prove the charges of which they now accuse me. But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy; so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets, having an expectation in Yah, which they themselves also wait for, that there is to be a resurrection of the dead, both of the righteous and the unrighteous. And in this I exercise myself to have a clear conscience toward Elohim and men always. And after many years I came to bring kind deeds to my nation and offerings, at which time certain Yehuḏim from Asia found me cleansed in the Set-apart Place, neither with a crowd nor with disturbance, who ought to be present before you to bring charges if they have any matter against me. Or else let these themselves say if they found any wrongdoing in me while I stood before the council, other than for this one declaration which I cried out, standing among them, ‘Concerning the resurrection of the dead I am being judged by you today.’ And having heard this, having known more exactly about the Way, Felix put them off, saying, “When Lysias the commander comes down, I shall decide your case. And he ordered the captain to keep Sha’ul and to have ease, and not to forbid any of his friends to attend to him."

AND the context is.......BELIEVING all things written in the law and prophets concerning the resurrection.

NOT KEEPING THE LAW!

 

[dcontroversal]

We need to be extremely careful in making such accusations. I don't believe Hizikyah is being deceptive at all. This is more a matter of failure to communicate properly (and he could have done a better job of tying together the Scriptures he quoted).

In that same post he has quoted 1 Cor 7:19, Rom 3:28,31;7:7. What these Scriptures say is that although no man can be justified by the works of the Law (Rom 3:28), it is the Law (the Ten Commandments) which governs our behavior and our attitudes after we are saved. In fact we establish the Law through Faith (as Paul writes) by (a) honestly admitting that we all are transgressors of the Law, (b) Christ died to meet the demands of the Law on our behalf. and (c) acknowledging that the New Birth includes God writing His Law in out hearts and minds, so that we regulate our lives according to that Law.

This in no way discounts the work of the Holy Spirit in empowering Christians to obey the Law of Christ (which is indeed within the Ten Commandments). The problem is that many Christians fail to understand that the Law of Love is also the Ten Commandments, and we cannot love God or neighbor by ignoring that. Please note what Paul has clearly explained (Rom 13:8-10):

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

How would you describe one who always pushes adherence to the LAW using a verse that does not say that to set the stage for pushing AHERANCE to the LAW........???????

SO......if not for his record of the above....I would humbly apologize in a New York second and take it back....but this is the modus operandi of MOST if not ALL that push a working for, law abiding dogma......

 

[gb9]

We need to be extremely careful in making such accusations. I don't believe Hizikyah is being deceptive at all. This is more a matter of failure to communicate properly (and he could have done a better job of tying together the Scriptures he quoted).

In that same post he has quoted 1 Cor 7:19, Rom 3:28,31;7:7. What these Scriptures say is that although no man can be justified by the works of the Law (Rom 3:28), it is the Law (the Ten Commandments) which governs our behavior and our attitudes after we are saved. In fact we establish the Law through Faith (as Paul writes) by (a) honestly admitting that we all are transgressors of the Law, (b) Christ died to meet the demands of the Law on our behalf. and (c) acknowledging that the New Birth includes God writing His Law in our hearts and minds, so that we regulate our lives according to that Law.

This in no way discounts the work of the Holy Spirit in empowering Christians to obey the Law of Christ (which is indeed within the Ten Commandments). The problem is that many Christians fail to understand that the Law of Love is also the Ten Commandments, and we cannot love God or neighbor by ignoring that. Please note what Paul has clearly explained (Rom 13:8-10):

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

the person in question here justs throws out verses, without context most of the time, tries to prove that certain things have been wrongly translated, and has a clear Hebrew roots agenda. theses are not baseless accusations. they are facts.

 

[dcontroversal]

Are you being serious?

Hebrews 9

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.




Matthew 26


26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

He is serious like 99% of the time.....and the death, burial and resurrection of JESUS ratified the NEW Covenant.....and the old one was NAILED to the cross it being weak and ineffectual....

Question to the lawyers and Pharisees....What does the following mean when it comes to your view that one MUST keep the law to be justified?

Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.

NOW PAY ATTENTION LAWYERS

But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

HE DOES NOT SAY given to those that KEEP THE LAW.........

ROMANS concludes that the LAW DEEMS ALL GUILTY!

 

[loveme1]

AND the context is.......BELIEVING all things written in the law and prophets concerning the resurrection.

NOT KEEPING THE LAW!

the saints Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Faith Jesus.. to believe is to hear and obey from the heart the Doctrine of Christ..

 

[Hizikyah]

AND the context is.......BELIEVING all things written in the law and prophets concerning the resurrection.

NOT KEEPING THE LAW!

You are funny, so he just believed the law?... Ohh thats why you cut the rest of my post out last time because Paul says he actually keeps it;

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."

These are actually Paul's words on keeping the Law;

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."

1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God?"

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

In our heart...
[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

the saints Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Faith Jesus.. to believe is to hear and obey from the heart the Doctrine of Christ..

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

Law and to the testimony

those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah

guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע
​

 

[PeterJens]

What is crazy is taking 2 seconds to read your posts......where in my post did I mention fruit or works?

You are simply not taking the points I am making or addressing them.
So there is no point believing you have any real interest in truly following Jesus
other than just being religious, with your own version of you life in a way that
is acceptable to you alone.

Because you love labels and then to descend into calling people being deceptive
etc. calling them law keepers and pharisees, which is a form of name calling, how
can anyone take you seriously or even capable of making a coherent point.

No non-believer would respect you or take you seriously. Following your gospel,
I may as well just carry on living the way I am, because there is no hope in this
life of anything better or insight into the Kingdom. It appears just a religious crutch
to make you feel better. For you Marx was right, religion is the opium of the people.

 

[dcontroversal]

the person in question here justs throws out verses, without context most of the time, tries to prove that certain things have been wrongly translated, and has a clear Hebrew roots agenda. theses are not baseless accusations. they are facts.

AMEN........I agree....and the truth is I like Hizikyah and his zeal......I really do...and like some things he states sometimes......I just cannot stand this pseudo blend of faith and law keeping for justification, salvation etc.......the bible is clear....the righteousness of GOD (CHRIST) is APPLIED and imputed BY FAITH unto ALL that believe......adherence to the LAW for anything is a losing bet.....the LAW condemns, is weak thru the flesh, is designed to prove guilt, cannot be kept by men without failure and POINTS TO THE ONLY cure which comes only by FAITH..........

 

[dcontroversal]

You are funny, so he just believed the law?... Ohh thats why you cut the rest of my post out last time because Paul says he actually keeps it;

And you wonder why many see you as deceptive.....AGAIN you highlight and ignore what is being said.....


Originally Posted by Hizikyah

These are actually Paul's words on keeping the Law;

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

 

[dcontroversal]

the saints Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Faith Jesus.. to believe is to hear and obey from the heart the Doctrine of Christ..

as long as you ignore context and support those that ignore context you will continue to miss the mark!

 

[Redeemed2015]

You are funny, so he just believed the law?... Ohh thats why you cut the rest of my post out last time because Paul says he actually keeps it;

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."



Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

In our heart...

Shhhhh, careful, people don't like being logical especially when scripture doesn't agree with them. Now they'll falsely accuse you of being a legalist or a Judaizer, for obeying the commandments of God. They'll falsely claim you are trying to earn the love of God and your salvation through obedience, when in reality you are obedient because of your salvation and because you love God. They'll call you a Pharisee without any understanding of what a Pharisee is. They'll put words in your mouth and twist scripture to distort the truth all because the truth has made them uncomfortable in their sin; their sin being revealed by the law of God. Amen, Brother!!

 

[loveme1]

He is serious like 99% of the time.....and the death, burial and resurrection of JESUS ratified the NEW Covenant.....and the old one was NAILED to the cross it being weak and ineffectual....

Question to the lawyers and Pharisees....What does the following mean when it comes to your view that one MUST keep the law to be justified?

Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.

NOW PAY ATTENTION LAWYERS

But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

HE DOES NOT SAY given to those that KEEP THE LAW.........

ROMANS concludes that the LAW DEEMS ALL GUILTY!

Romans 7

1Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to herhusband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3So then if, while herhusband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


A New Husband that gave a Testament for us to believe.



Romans 7

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.



the law of GOD is part of the New Testament.. read all of Romans 7... you will see why we are to be born again of the Holy Spirit.. and that comes by believing GOD through His Son. Repent and believe..

 

[loveme1]

as long as you ignore context and support those that ignore context you will continue to miss the mark!

No DC the only mark I will miss will be that of the beast.. GOD be thanked in all things and for all things.

 

[dcontroversal]

You are simply not taking the points I am making or addressing them.
So there is no point believing you have any real interest in truly following Jesus
other than just being religious, with your own version of you life in a way that
is acceptable to you alone.

Because you love labels and then to descend into calling people being deceptive
etc. calling them law keepers and pharisees, which is a form of name calling, how
can anyone take you seriously or even capable of making a coherent point.

No non-believer would respect you or take you seriously. Following your gospel,
I may as well just carry on living the way I am, because there is no hope in this
life of anything better or insight into the Kingdom. It appears just a religious crutch
to make you feel better. For you Marx was right, religion is the opium of the people.

Again true to form there Mr. Cotton Tail..........a key word describes your verbiage....is it diatribe or bloviating Peter? Because there is no substance for sure.....

 

[dcontroversal]

No DC the only mark I will miss will be that of the beast.. GOD be thanked in all things and for all things.

I sure hope so for your sake..............

 

[dcontroversal]

Romans 7

1Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to herhusband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3So then if, while herhusband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


A New Husband that gave a Testament for us to believe.



Romans 7

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.



the law of GOD is part of the New Testament.. read all of Romans 7... you will see why we are to be born again of the Holy Spirit.. and that comes by believing GOD through His Son. Repent and believe..

The very verses you quote prove my point...thanks....now acknowledge what is really being said.......