Not By Works

[joefizz]

The poster I was replying to had neglected to include the word "if" in his assumptions about 1 John 1.
One word can change an entire essay.

I gave you a like for this because this is funny!
so one word changes an entire essay hmm?
the poster did not put "if" most likely because they are "sure" about what is "true" it's just the same as like how we can say "Jesus died on a cross" instead of "If Jesus died on a cross,we can say such things because it is evidently "True" some things are quite tough to figure out for multiple reasons where as some are not,granted no part of the bible is a simple read and know experience but some things can at least be put to memory as "true" such as"The city of Jerusalem was built" when you can do without the "if" then whole alot more opens up,because though some things we still speculate if we never see somethings in the bible as "True" instead saying "if" it is true then who shall believe us?
When you can begin to believe in your heart and soul that much of the bible is true especially concerning Jesus and salvation then you can do far more than merely speculate you can lead others to truth.

 

[VCO]

According to James, sin requires a temptation. (James 1:14-15)
It requires lust and enticement.
No sin is accidental after going through so many stages.

As for lust, Paul writes..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
In those that are Christ's, the lusts are as dead as the old affections and flesh...thanks be to God.
We have been reborn as new creatures.

Like said, start studying what all GOD considers sin and abandon most of what you THINK you know. You just described one type of sin, when there are multiple types sin. I just gave you a sizeable list of SINS OF OMISSION. NONE OF WHICH REQUIRE TEMPTATION. Come on Sinner, start studying and Confessing, the LORD is CALLING YOU.

How about starting with this one:

Proverbs 6:16-19 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


I will be praying for you, in fact I just did.

 

[PJW]

You really do not understand that the works righteousness you preach is a false GOSPEL that CANNOT SAVE.

You can tell what type of tree you have by the fruit.
Were my "fruit" sin, you could condemn me.
The "works", (not to be confused with the works of the law), are the proof of the truth of God's word.

I will KEEP BELIEVING THAT JESUS DID IT ALL, and TOTALLY TRUSTING THAT HE WILL KEEP ME SAVED, AND CONTINUE TO MOLD ME INTO PERFECTLY FINISHED VESSEL HE CHOOSES ME TO BE.

Do you really think He wants you to defend sin?

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)

[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

You have misapplied this scripture to an entirely different subject.

 

[stonesoffire]

I believe It is those that think Paul taught not to follow the Law of the Creator is what is causing the error…


2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."



I believe It is those that think Paul taught not to follow the Law of the Creator is what is causing the error…



Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."


Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."


Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"


Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."


Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

The new commandment is to love others as He has loved us. Or you personally. A walk of forgiveness. We establish the commandments by Holy Spirit. We are Holy because the Holy Spirit lives inside our Spirit. Producing then the fruits of the Spirit as we grow up into Him. And what then does the Word say? Against such there is no law.

All sin has been forgiven at the Cross. And the power of sin broken. A new creation birthed.

 

[PJW]

The funny thing is these lying sinless perfect heretics aren't going to wait for the glorification that comes only from God, they're going to glorify themselves now.

Whitefield had experiential knowledge with these lames, and exposed their sin after their sinless claim, much to the chagrin of the errant Wesley brothers who promoted this heresy.

Anyhow, God will allow these to remain deceived, or bring them out of their deception according to His own will.

I agree with your findings on Wesleyanism.
But if you think that obedience to God is heresy...it makes me wary of your associations.

 

[PJW]

Hi Decon, here are a few words of biblical wisdom concerning,

"vanilla twist, cafe blend cracker jack box dogma."


FALSE DOCTRINES AND FALSE TEACHERS:
​

By William S. Plumer​

​

I. False teachers exercise much craftiness and deceitfulness in spreading false doctrines.
Peter said they should "secretly bring in damnable heresies." And Paul warns the Ephesians that they "no longer be little children, tossed by the waves and blown around by every wind of teaching, by human cunning with cleverness in the techniques of deceit" (Eph. 4:14).

II. False teachers are commonly boastful.
There was not a spark of genuine modesty about them. So in modern times, if base flattery will answer a purpose, it will be resorted to; yet when another course seems admissible, their mouths are filled with vain conceits They boast of converts never made, of charities never bestowed, of good never done, of works never accomplished. In this respect, they have a close resemblance to those pests of society—dealers in quack medicines.

III. The very same people at times display fierceness and bitterness.This uniform result is the fruit of unsanctified affections. In the days of Micah, the false prophets bore the same mark. "This is what the Lord says to you false prophets—"You are leading my people astray!", You promise peace for those who give you food, but you declare war on anyone who refuses to pay you." (Micah 3:5). Here is the whole story: They lead souls astray. That is their trade; They propose war against those who don't support them.

How shall we treat false teachers when they arise?

1. As soon as we discern their false teaching, it is our duty to refuse to hear them or to read their books. Never was more wholesome or beneficial advice given than that of Solomon: "Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causes to err from the words of knowledge" (Prov. 19:27).

2. While the Scriptures call on us to feed the hungry and to be kind to the poor, they forbid us to hold such fellowship with false teachers, as implies sympathy with them or connivance at their wicked teachings. Thus the loving and blessed John says: "If someone comes to your meeting and does not teach the truth about Christ, don't invite him into your house or encourage him in any way.

3. False teachers must also be firmly and meekly resisted in all their attempts to lead men astray. When even Peter was betrayed into deception concerning false doctrines, Paul withstood him to the face, and rebuked him sharply. Jude "exhorted" his brethren "earnestly to contend for the faith once delivered to the saints" (verse 3).
There is such a thing as truth.

Truth is light. It makes manifest. It is one. It is harmonious. No truth contradicts any other truth. In truth are no jars, no discords, no contradictions. Like its Author, truth is simple, eternal, immutable. It came from God, who cannot lie, cannot deceive, cannot be mistaken, cannot be outsmarted. Truth is the opposite of fiction, fable, falsehood. One is from above; the other is from beneath.

Attribute: FALSE DOCTRINES AND FALSE TEACHERS

Amen!
Good post.
BTW, does your user name reflect the "truth" that Jesus said could free you from service to sin, in John 8:32-34?

 

[PJW]

AMEN and Paul also said that outwardly he was guiltless concerning the law.....and had to be reeducated by Jesus himself......!

Yup. the difference between Paul's OT life and his NT life.

 

[PJW]

If you have to ask it proves you are out of your league........

That makes no sense.

 

[PJW]

This just proves you cannot read and or understand English....it is also just another cake taking statement from one who embellishes and or accuses erroneously........

Got any scripture to back that up?
Or is that just "man's" opinion?

 

[PJW]

God doesn't chasten bastards, he only chastens his children.

What happens when the "children" refuse the correction?

 

[stonesoffire]

Arent both sides saying the same thing in this debate i notice? One says if you are saved you will keep the commandments. Other says you must keep the commandments to be(or stay?) saved. End result is the same? Or is the issue on who you trust and glorify?

I don't say either.

We are a new creation of God. All attributes of God reside within us if we are born from above. But, we still have a soul and live in a body in a fallen world of darkness.

And what happened in Acts has been weakened by a time of darkness invading truth.

Now we are being revived. And learning who we are.

The natural man is naturally religious. Because we were created to worship God, fallen man will worship something. This is the religious spirit, and it hates God. The enmity that we have before salvation.

We must overcome much for our soul, and body to be affected by life. That is the reason for arguments. Light versus darkness.

Just believe the revelation given to Paul, for it came from Jesus, and is instruction to His body.

 

[PJW]

Excellent response that means nothing as applied to my statement.......here I will post it again so you can try another way to say your sinless....

WRITTEN TO BELIEVERS

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Another fallacy here.....Where sin abounds, grace did much more abound.....and you just declared yourself lost.....NO MAN is sinless until the body is changed or resurrected....

You didn't read the next three verses which describe the rebirth of a new man.
We are "raised with Christ to walk in nenwness of life", and that life is gendered by God and incapable of bearing evil fruit.
I have been "changed".

 

[PJW]

So DC... I agree none are sinless while in the flesh and are reborn incorruptable, but did you not tell me I was wrong for this exact things a day or two ago? Im asking, not accusing, Im asking, because I thought you said this.

Good thing God made a way to kill the "flesh"
It is written..."[FONT=&quot]And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." ([/FONT][FONT=&quot]Galatians 5:24)[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

Bill gets it.....unlike the working for sinless perfectionists......

It is written..."[FONT=&quot]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:8-10)
It is His work, not mine.[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

Or fail in a moment of weakness....Like JESUS said....the spirit is indeed willing, BUT THE FLESH IS WEAK..

Yup.
But remember, no man could be reborn till after Jesus' death and resurrection.
Rebirth counts for a lot.

 

[stonesoffire]

Interesting question.

Given that the whole idea of a "New Covenant" came from the Old Testament, And given the Biblical fact that the God of the Bible said He would write HIS Laws on our hearts.

Wouldn't those of the New Covenant exhibit behavior reflecting this Biblical truth? And what if someone says they are part of the New Covenant, but exhibit behavior supporting some religious doctrine and tradition, while "Transgressing the Laws of God that are said to have been written on their hearts?

Isn't this the very foundation of Jesus' warning in:

Matt. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Our fruits or works would expose whether or not it is the God of the OT's Laws written on our hearts, or some other god.

But whether the law are written before works worthy of repentance or after, the behavior that followed would be same.

Good question.

The new covenant is the will of inheritance that Jesus left for His body. A revelation.

The OT covenant was fulfilled by the Cross and is symbolized by the sacrifice of Abraham with the burning lamp passing through the pieces of the sacrificial animals. The completion of the OT covenant of Abraham's sacrifice was the seed of the nations of those of faith.

Am surprised you would not know this in your study.

Look at the Word covenant in Hebrew.

 

[PJW]

Now, if you want to really serve, I will get you in touch with some people who will sign you up for some intense witnessing, in the end of the line of the nearest SuperMax prison HOLE (Security Housing Unit).
Matthew 25:41-46 (NKJV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP] for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
[SUP]43 [/SUP] I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
[SUP]44 [/SUP] Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
[SUP]45 [/SUP] Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
[SUP]46 [/SUP] And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
How about it PJW, are you ready to really start Serving the LORD?

Already am serving the Lord.
Perhaps you would like to quit serving sin and start serving the Lord?
You can't serve two masters.

 

[PJW]

Hi BillG, the person you are referring to in this post is a "sinless perfectionist",
"a false teacher.", Walk away.

I admit, most don't want to serve the real God and prefer doctrines allowing sin instead.

 

[stonesoffire]

My comments were in regard to the doctrine of "gradual sanctification".
Blood sanctifies, and is applied to us as we hang on the cross with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

[PJW]

I gave you a like for this because this is funny!
so one word changes an entire essay hmm?
the poster did not put "if" most likely because they are "sure" about what is "true" it's just the same as like how we can say "Jesus died on a cross" instead of "If Jesus died on a cross,we can say such things because it is evidently "True" some things are quite tough to figure out for multiple reasons where as some are not,granted no part of the bible is a simple read and know experience but some things can at least be put to memory as "true" such as"The city of Jerusalem was built" when you can do without the "if" then whole alot more opens up,because though some things we still speculate if we never see somethings in the bible as "True" instead saying "if" it is true then who shall believe us?
When you can begin to believe in your heart and soul that much of the bible is true especially concerning Jesus and salvation then you can do far more than merely speculate you can lead others to truth.

Would that be the "truth" Jesus said could free you from service to sin? (John 8:32-34)