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Thread: Not By Works

  1. #44501
    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by beastslayer1970 View Post
    NASB:
    If you will not believe, you surely shall not last.
    NLV: 9 Israel is no stronger than its capital, Samaria,
    and Samaria is no stronger than its king, Pekah son of Remaliah.
    Unless your faith is firm,
    I cannot make you stand firm.”

    These two version do not say the same thing..

    One says if you will not believe, The other says you already believe, but it has to continue (stand firm)

    Thats a major problem.


    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    NLV: 9 Israel is no stronger than its capital, Samaria,
    and Samaria is no stronger than its king, Pekah son of Remaliah.
    Unless your faith is firm,
    I cannot make you stand firm.”

    These two version do not say the same thing..

    One says if you will not believe, The other says you already believe, but it has to continue (stand firm)

    Thats a major problem.


    No beef here, especially since this has zero to do with salvation
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by beastslayer1970 View Post
    No beef here, especially since this has zero to do with salvation
    Your are right, it does not.

    But to some I think they think it does (if we deny him, or stop believing in him we lose salvation)
    dcontroversal likes this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by joefizz View Post
    I agree with not the part where you said it's impossible to get saved again,so that's at least some more understanding to your side of things which is good,the issue still remains of this "keep believing" thing,I don't get how you can figure that once someone is saved that they are thereafter going to stop believing at some point,it to me makes no sense,even simon peter denied Jesus 3 times yet still believed in him,now there was doubting thomas and so I can understand a person doubting Jesus's death and resurrection,but Jesus and God I don't see anyone after being saved,no longer believing in God/Jesus,now thomas accepted Jesus's death but not his resurrection until Jesus appeared to him,but he "still believed in him" because just as soon as Jesus appeared he said he didn't need to do what he said he needed for verification,he was just "simple minded" what he saw he in his mind could not deny that Jesus died and since he didn't see him resurrect he denied that he resurrected,I understand you are "worried" but that's where faith comes in,we ought to take God/Jesus at his word,if you "Love God/Jesus" you don't seek unbelief you seek him always,to believe is to know,not to guess,believing is not something you stop when you know.
    that first line is supposed to be,I agree with the part,sometimes the keys and words jumble to where I press them by accident...
    King of randomness here,everyone take notice!

    If you don't believe in true love then please don't tell me not to believe in it because I believe it to be real.

    You are perfect?
    self righteousness is as filthy rags the bible says.
    You might wanna reconsider that ideal.

    We are all family in God's eyes,so please at least try to get along,sincerely, a child of God.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Your are right, it does not.

    But to some I think they think it does (if we deny him, or stop believing in him we lose salvation)



    I believe people internalize the Bible different ways and that will usually determine their beliefs and convictions.

    If they believe they are being led by the Holy Spirit into all truth and internalize things different than other people then their convictions and beliefs might be different from other people. This is not meant to overlook or excuse genuine false teaching, but honestly speaking, thats what the mods/admins of the site are for.

    I look at this thread/debate from a person who was raised in a Christian home, but lived in defiant rebellion and disobedience and was unsaved and in the world and very close to the occult for many years, until the Holy Spirit got a hold of me and convicted me for my need for a Savior by showing me the goodness of God.

    I am sad to report that some who say you are Christian look more like the world in your replies, than anyone I would call a brother.

    Harsh words I know, so let me season it with some grace.
    I think honestly we need to all remember something very important. We are all on a chat board and on the internet. It does no good to project our beliefs on anyone else. We can discuss beliefs but at the end of the day, not one person here has any spiritual authority over another. Some of the valid arguments on this thread and others are valid, but really carry no weight, Because we are not in person. Maybe its different for you, but as I said on a public post to dcon. I do not take friend requests on chat boards. It should not break fellowship. I really do not know who you people are and really besides talking, learning, reading and inputting here, I see no long term bromances budding, etc.

    When our emotions start taking over discussion it might be wise to take a time out, regroup, log off for awhile and cool down.
    When we start projecting our personal convictions onto others we are violating Romans 14.
    I am not picking on poster VCO, but really brother, how on earth would you be able to discern someone's eternal condition via what they post on a chat board?

    Bible discussion should remain discussion not aggressive non-negotiations with light sabers. While there may be some who visit here and get the truth, the only thing I see is people called Christians in name only, fighting about some dude called Jesus and how he saves you and if you disagree name calling and very hostile actions the world would never engage in take place.

    I think this thread should stay in place and be what it seeks to be and less of a battle ground. The call to remove the thread is censorship and nothing is solved by censoring each other. I see a lot of good keeping this thread alive and would urge posters to use some wisdom and common sense. If you want to discuss your personal convictions and beliefs and they are counter to the OP's start a different thread and invite like minded people to discuss it with you, stop derails on an OP and that goes for everyone. If oyu don't beleive in tongues then do nto feel it is your obligated duty to shut down those that do.

    The BDF is not point /counter point to me. I see posters all over other threads making very valid points about the way, the truth and the life, that do not post in this thread or very rarely in the BDF because it is obvious that there are many teachers with fiefdoms and cliques but few honest, meaningful discussions.


    Ok sorry and this was not directed at the OP, DCON or you or anyone in particular, but maybe all of us should view what we are contributing in light of the world.

    I have to also say this. Those who were or are entrenched in the occult can and do see past a lot of super spiritual things that are passed off that are not real Bible knowledge.

    Ok so long answer hope nobody gets hurt or offended, just peace people.

    PS:
    I also think the cliques on this site are for the birds.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Nothing you say amounts to a hill of beans...why? Because no one has even come close to saying the rigmarole you push and or ascribe to us....and your sinless perfectionist working for attitude that rejects all the verses ands scripture that states none are without sin until the body is fully redeemed does not allow you to see the truth.....nor do you comprehend that we still pack around a fallen, wicked body of sin that is not subject unto the law of God neither indeed can be....there is a process of sanctification that is a DAILY process with successes and failures and until you open your eyes to this you will continue to miss the ark, ascribe things to us that is not stated or implied and continue to post irrelevant points based upon faulty foundations.....direct your "I am sinless" drivel someplace else.......this thread is about salvation by grace through faith without works helping one get saved, stay saved or keep salvation............start your own I AM SINLESS thread so you can boast of how good you are like the Pharisee of old.....


    /
    John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

    John 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be EXPOSED.

    Ephesians 5:11-18 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather EXPOSE THEM. For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: “Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.” Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

    James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.

  7. #44507
    Senior Member BillG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by beastslayer1970 View Post
    I believe people internalize the Bible different ways and that will usually determine their beliefs and convictions.

    If they believe they are being led by the Holy Spirit into all truth and internalize things different than other people then their convictions and beliefs might be different from other people. This is not meant to overlook or excuse genuine false teaching, but honestly speaking, thats what the mods/admins of the site are for.

    I look at this thread/debate from a person who was raised in a Christian home, but lived in defiant rebellion and disobedience and was unsaved and in the world and very close to the occult for many years, until the Holy Spirit got a hold of me and convicted me for my need for a Savior by showing me the goodness of God.

    I am sad to report that some who say you are Christian look more like the world in your replies, than anyone I would call a brother.

    Harsh words I know, so let me season it with some grace.
    I think honestly we need to all remember something very important. We are all on a chat board and on the internet. It does no good to project our beliefs on anyone else. We can discuss beliefs but at the end of the day, not one person here has any spiritual authority over another. Some of the valid arguments on this thread and others are valid, but really carry no weight, Because we are not in person. Maybe its different for you, but as I said on a public post to dcon. I do not take friend requests on chat boards. It should not break fellowship. I really do not know who you people are and really besides talking, learning, reading and inputting here, I see no long term bromances budding, etc.

    When our emotions start taking over discussion it might be wise to take a time out, regroup, log off for awhile and cool down.
    When we start projecting our personal convictions onto others we are violating Romans 14.
    I am not picking on poster VCO, but really brother, how on earth would you be able to discern someone's eternal condition via what they post on a chat board?

    Bible discussion should remain discussion not aggressive non-negotiations with light sabers. While there may be some who visit here and get the truth, the only thing I see is people called Christians in name only, fighting about some dude called Jesus and how he saves you and if you disagree name calling and very hostile actions the world would never engage in take place.

    I think this thread should stay in place and be what it seeks to be and less of a battle ground. The call to remove the thread is censorship and nothing is solved by censoring each other. I see a lot of good keeping this thread alive and would urge posters to use some wisdom and common sense. If you want to discuss your personal convictions and beliefs and they are counter to the OP's start a different thread and invite like minded people to discuss it with you, stop derails on an OP and that goes for everyone. If oyu don't beleive in tongues then do nto feel it is your obligated duty to shut down those that do.

    The BDF is not point /counter point to me. I see posters all over other threads making very valid points about the way, the truth and the life, that do not post in this thread or very rarely in the BDF because it is obvious that there are many teachers with fiefdoms and cliques but few honest, meaningful discussions.


    Ok sorry and this was not directed at the OP, DCON or you or anyone in particular, but maybe all of us should view what we are contributing in light of the world.

    I have to also say this. Those who were or are entrenched in the occult can and do see past a lot of super spiritual things that are passed off that are not real Bible knowledge.

    Ok so long answer hope nobody gets hurt or offended, just peace people.

    PS:
    I also think the cliques on this site are for the birds.
    To be honest here I have often said if we were all sat around a table and discussed then things would be different.
    All we see here are words.
    Lord

    Help me to be the person my dog thinks I am.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by TruthTalk View Post
    Dear Sir, Eternally-grateful is a kind and loving person. Casting a shadow of wrong doing over E-g and a whole group (small?) of brother's and Sister's in the Lord is both shameful and bearing false witness. I personally have never even met you and then you call us all, "a cohort of self-appointed inquisitors." and you are 73yrs of age.
    Dear Sir, Jaumej is kind and loving with much to share with us and the ongoing behaviour is not good for anyone. I consider those being called that are people that have had interaction in some way so why throw yourself in to the mix?
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace View Post
    I think you would have to go back a page or two to see where the conversation between eg and I originated...

    He said to have mistrust in a circumstance was a different thing than denying Him. But to me, it is the same as denying Him to deny something He has said. However, He doesn't expect us to walk by light He has not yet given us. Which is why I said that to be faithless in a circumstance comes from one of three possibilities.

    Eg was the one who used the phrase "not trusting a circumstance." I was using his phrase. Like I said, youd have to go back a page or two to where the chat began.
    Thank you for answering, and my apologies for my tardy reply. I went out last night to my community group Bible study. We had pot luck also [I took lasagna ]), and then lost my internet. I just got back from Best Buy where they fixed my ethernet by uninstalling and the re-installing it; it had been acting up for the last few days, and messing with my Bluetooth as well I hope that is the end of that! It is true I do not read all the posts in this thread, as it is pretty fast moving, and I am not here as often as some others. So thanks again for explaining


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by BillG View Post
    To be honest here I have often said if we were all sat around a table and discussed then things would be different.
    All we see here are words.
    One day soon my friend..
    Stunnedbygrace and BillG like this.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post
    Dear Sir, Jaumej is kind and loving with much to share with us and the ongoing behaviour is not good for anyone. I consider those being called that are people that have had interaction in some way so why throw yourself in to the mix?
    Hello loveme1,

    I answered your question in post #248 in the "Paul exposes false application of the law" thread and I'm waiting for your reply.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by beastslayer1970 View Post
    I look at this thread/debate from a person who was raised in a Christian home, but lived in defiant rebellion and disobedience and was unsaved and in the world and very close to the occult for many years, until the Holy Spirit got a hold of me and convicted me for my need for a Savior by showing me the goodness of God.
    That is my story also

    It does no good to project our beliefs on anyone else.

    When we start projecting our personal convictions onto others we are violating Romans 14.

    ... how on earth would you be able to discern someone's eternal condition via what they post on a chat board?
    Please try to convince PHart of this


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Please try to convince PHart of this
    The message was for all people on this thread, it just happened to come in form of a reply to eternally-gratefull.

    To be clear I am not taking side's and I will not take sides.

    Sides are for chicken and mashed taters and gravy.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Hello loveme1,

    I answered your question in post #248 in the "Paul exposes false application of the law" thread and I'm waiting for your reply.

    I will go have a deco.. see you down there.
    mailmandan likes this.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Mailman don’t laugh.. well yes laugh.. I had already posted a reply to all that took the time to share when I said I would go look.. sure I think I need to sleep and not drag folks round the bend with me.. forgive me..

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    ...................

    dcontroversal, BillG and TruthTalk like this.


    Quote Originally Posted by pottersclay View Post
    Blue_ladybug is innocent, as we know in scripture " all people who like orange tabbies are innocent."

    Quote Originally Posted by TruthTalk View Post

    I love "Orange Tabbies" , God created the world and then, "Orange Tabbies" .....

    Go to my profile Blog tab to read my testimonies.






  17. #44517


    VCO
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by beastslayer1970 View Post
    I thought you guys said the Holy Spirit does not give part of himself, so how come you state it now?
    What part of TASTED do you not understand?

    Hebrews 6:4-5 (HCSB)
    4 For it is impossible to renew to repentance those who were once enlightened,
    who tasted the heavenly gift, became companions with the Holy Spirit,
    5 tasted God’s good word and the powers of the coming age,


    What part of "HE will be IN you and will Never Leave you", do you not understand?

    John 14:16-17 (NASB)
    16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper,
    that
    He may be with you forever;

    17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive,
    because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him
    because He abides with you and will be in you.


    1 Corinthians 10:3-4 (HCSB)
    3 They all ate the same spiritual food,
    4 and all drank the same spiritual drink.
    For they drank from a spiritual rock that followed them,
    and that rock was Christ.


    WAY MORE THAN JUST TASTED like the pretend Christians.

    t t t
    Titus 2:13
    VCO

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by VCO View Post
    What part of TASTED do you not understand?

    Hebrews 6:4-5 (HCSB)
    4 For it is impossible to renew to repentance those who were once enlightened,
    who tasted the heavenly gift, became companions with the Holy Spirit,
    5 tasted God’s good word and the powers of the coming age,


    What part of "HE will be IN you and will Never Leave you", do you not understand?

    John 14:16-17 (NASB)
    16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper,
    that
    He may be with you forever;

    17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive,
    because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him
    because He abides with you and will be in you.


    1 Corinthians 10:3-4 (HCSB)
    3 They all ate the same spiritual food,
    4 and all drank the same spiritual drink.
    For they drank from a spiritual rock that followed them,
    and that rock was Christ.


    WAY MORE THAN JUST TASTED like the pretend Christians.
    Thanks. Now please clam down or stop speaking to me.
    Stunnedbygrace likes this.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    and he says we twist.. Sad.. He does the very thing he yells at other people for..

    it seems to be a pattern with certain people
    Anyone that compares the sealing of the Holy Spirit to a bowl of unsealed left over lasagna has told me all I need to know about their lack of understanding......and lack of faith...

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    It is not even a good translation

    See the translation of the KJV and the NASB (two of the most respected) it does not even say anything close to what that said.

    Yeah I looked at about 15 translations in Bible Hub...and I agree....much less use it to prove some type of point like lasagna man....

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