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Thread: Not By Works

  1. #44561
    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by TruthTalk View Post
    Dear Sir, Jaumej is kind and loving with much to share with us and the ongoing behaviour is not good for anyone. I consider those being called that are people that have had interaction in some way so 'why throw yourself in to the mix?'


    Seriously, its looks pretty clear to me why I responded to his post - and I do not see this as,"throwing myself into the mix"
    and he is not referring to you as a "little cohort", so why do you even care what I have posted?

    Originally Posted by JaumeJ
    I am afraid I see, "you and your little, small, cohort" as self appointed inquisitors", and you have decided i SHOULD BE YOUR FAVORITE HERETIC.

    Please, if you cannot tolerate what people understand from the Master, do not follow them from post to post.....now for the sake of peace I shall un subscribe to this post used by 'your little group.'
    Sadly, it seams people are free to slander and attack others all they want, And if anyone confronts them for it. It is a bad thing.

    I guess it explains why the church is in such a sad state.. everyone is afraid to confront people of sin..
    VCO and TruthTalk like this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  2. #44562
    PHart
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    A person who obeys only when it suits his own desires? Would you not question their salvation also?
    So we can question a person's salvation, but we can not affirm it? Is that what you're saying?

    But, yes, people who say they are saved but who do not act like it, and who resist correction about their behavior, go on my 'consider them an unbeliever' list. Unless I can tell they are genuinely saved by how Peter knew the gentiles he preached to were saved. In which case I know they are simply very immature in their Christian development. Probably because of poor teaching in the church. Or the absence of it.

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Lol. So some gentiles get saved, and people can see it, And this proves you can tell an individuals heart and know they are saved?


    it gets worse
    He can explain it if no one is getting his point.....next the eternal salvation, justification, sealing and sanctification found in Christ by faith, through grace as a gift will be compared to a black jack table and doubling down on a pair of 2's........

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    Oh? Why is that? A person who obeys only when it suits his own desires? Would you not question their salvation also?

    Or do you think they were saved, but now lost it?
    Left over, cold, unsealed, bad lasagna........obviously God is too weak to save, seal, justify and sanctify one eternally.....as a matter of fact....I am surprised that the word temporary was not chosen by God......!!!!!
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PHart View Post
    So we can question a person's salvation, but we can not affirm it? Is that what you're saying?

    But, yes, people who say they are saved by who do not act like it go on my 'consider them an unbeliever' list. Unless I can tell they are genuinely saved by how Peter knew the gentiles he preached to were saved. In which case I know they are simply very immature in their Christian development. Probably because of poor teaching in the church. Or the absence of it.
    Questioning is not judging, It is saying one does not know..

    Huige difference.

    I am not God, I do not know if anyone is saved or not. At best all I can do is guess, I am not God, I can not read a persons hearty. I can not know if they repented truly or are just playing church. Many people have faked being godly for years. Even the scripture warns us against people who come in like sheep but are really wolves in sheeps closthing, and James himself tells us to test our own faith.


    You may think those people were saved, But you can not know without a doubt, Only God can.. so to say those people were saved, then walked away and are not against christ, thus they have lost salvation is mere speculation. Because you can not know. No matter how much you want to.. You are not God.

    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  6. #44566
    PHart
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    He can explain it if no one is getting his point...
    Can you see in the passage how Peter knew the gentiles had received salvation? Yes, or no?

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PHart View Post
    No, it's not about judging a person's heart to know if they're saved, lol:

    "44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47“Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”" (Acts 10:44-47 NASB)

    Do I need to explain it to you? I will if you're not grasping the point.
    Quote Originally Posted by VCO View Post
    What is your motive for Obeying HIM?
    1 John 5:1-3 Faith in the Son of God Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

    Romans 13:8-14 Love, for the Day Is Near Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

    Romans 12:9-21 Love Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with God’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

    John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

    John 14:31 but THE WORLD MUST LEARN that I LOVE THE FATHER and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. “Come now; let us leave.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PHart View Post
    Can you see in the passage how Peter knew the gentiles had received salvation? Yes, or no?
    he knew that some people in a group were saved.

    I am sure it would be ok to say some people God saved at a rally held by a great evengalist. But there would be no way to tell who exactly got saved, we can only guess.
    dcontroversal likes this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  9. #44569
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post

    I am not God, I do not know if anyone is saved or not. At best all I can do is guess, I am not God, I can not read a persons hearty.
    Is Peter God? Was Peter just guessing that the gentiles had received the grace of God in salvation? Read the passage. You don't have to read a person's heart to see if they're saved. There is a way that Peter used that will reveal a person as being genuinely born again. Can you see it in the passage?


    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    You may think those people were saved, But you can not know without a doubt...
    Yes I can. I can know the way Peter knew Cornelius and his family really were saved and accepted by God. But if you can not see it in the passage how he knew that then you will not know a way to know.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PHart View Post
    I'm not being snarky, trust me, but when you are tempted to sin do you only obey if you feel like it and only when it's easy?
    No worries, I know you aren't being snarky!
    When I am being tempted to sin, for instance, to worry about money, I...ask for help. I see the way I am starting to go and...I resist the temptation to not trust His promises. It isn't that I only obey if I feel like it, its more like...I don't know, that's the best I can explain it. I don't get anywhere through sheer willpower. Never have. I'm too weak. But I have learned to recognize when I am going the wrong way (unfaithfulness and mistrust) way more quickly than I used to, and I ask for help and He just...shores me up.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PHart View Post
    Is Peter God? Was Peter just guessing that the gentiles had received the grace of God in salvation? Read the passage. You don't have to read a person's heart to see if they're saved. There is a way that Peter used that will reveal a person as being genuinely born again. Can you see it in the passage?
    smh, Peter said a group of people (non Jewish) were granted salvation. Because he gave the gospel and there was signs that the HS was given.

    That is not the same as Peter saying so and so got saved,



    Yes I can. I can know the way Peter knew Cornelius and his family really were saved and accepted by God. But if you can not see it in the passage how he knew that then you will not know the way.
    SMH

    Go ahead, keep thinking this.. Your free to..

    do not expect other people to play God however. Or believe something just to make our belief come true.

    I am not God, Peter was given special insight as an apostle. I have not been given this power.

    I have seem many people claim to be Christians, and even act like one for years. Then walk away and claim jesus was not God and he was just a martyr, he was not from God and this christian thing is all a lie.

    You may believe they were saved, then lost faith. I will never think they were saved I will believe as John said, that they were never of us,m for if they were, they would have remained.

    A person does not lose faiht in people who never let them down. If you think God lets people down enough that they will lose faith. That just showed the lack of faith YOU have in God.


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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Speak2Me View Post
    How do we know who's right? Do we know by their doctrine? Sometimes, if that doctrine is completely messed up, it's obvious.
    But we don't have to know if the doctrine's right or not to be able to determine its validity.
    Jesus told us how to determine someone's beliefs are right simply by their attitudes. The way they act.

    Matt 7:
    15Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

    A godly person will have a peaceful, gentle spirit, while the ungodly person who lives by false doctrine doesn't have the Spirit of God in them to strengthen their self-control, or help them watch their mouth.
    It becomes rather obvious when people shoot off their mouths with arrogance & pride, for such isn't the fruit of the Spirit.
    The righteous bear the fruit of the Spirit, and the wicked the fruits that Satan produces to spread disinformation and lies, while bringing destruction in the lives of the righteous.
    Just watch who's attacking who with no Biblical evidence, and wicked will reveal themselves.
    Watch carefully.

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Yeah...watch who posts scripture out of context, undermines and devalues the Holy Spirit of God and His work and then claims they keep themselves saved...Paul. Jesus, Elijah, John the Baptist all used sarcasm when dealing with false teachers who led people to hell by their dogma....

    Maybe add some value to the convo and defend the truth instead of the crack jack left over lasagna dogma pushed by a few.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Speak2Me View Post
    See? Did I ask in any way for such a response? No, I didn't. It is just as the Bible says it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    You made a subtle unfounded attack....now your dishonesty is seen and your motive.....no one asked you to post what you posted.....so....what makes yours right and my response wrong...what I said was true as well.....
    It's obvious I don't keep up, but I thought I would bring this up to speed.
    All of these quotes are in order. I didn't leave out a thing.
    Now, DC, care to explain how I attacked and who I attacked?
    My first post named nobody, and pointed at no one in particular. Yet you're the only one to reply to it. No one else did.

    Maybe add some value to the convo and defend the truth instead of the crack jack left over lasagna dogma pushed by a few....
    I used scripture properly, others put their likes on it, and just like that you reply and insult me.
    BTW, it wasn't MY fault you jumped in and volunteered to be an example.
    I never attacked you, even though you insulted me, and I'm not attacking you now. You need to quit blaming people every time it suits you.
    Every time you post against me, you keep informing everyone about yourself. If you noticed, I didn't say it was positive or negative.
    I do believe you were rude to me though and owe me an apology.

  13. #44573


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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Seohce View Post
    1 John 5:1-3 Faith in the Son of God Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

    Romans 13:8-14 Love, for the Day Is Near Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

    Romans 12:9-21 Love Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with God’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

    John 14:15 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

    John 14:31 but THE WORLD MUST LEARN that I LOVE THE FATHER and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. “Come now; let us leave.
    Good answer, because LOVE for GOD and the LORD JESUS CHRIST, who is GOD in the body of JESUS CHRIST, is the ONLY PURE MOTIVE. Obeying out of a sense "I HAVE TO OBEY to EARN or KEEP my Salvation" is a false gospel.


    2 Corinthians 5:19 (NKJV)
    19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
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    t t t
    Titus 2:13
    VCO

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PHart View Post
    Spirit in, Spirit out. It's that simple.

    6And he said to me, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing—the utterly detestable things the Israelites are doing here, things that will drive me far from my sanctuary?" (Ezekiel 8:6 NIV)

    "
    18Then the glory of the LORD departed from the threshold of the temple..." (Ezekiel 10:18 NASB)

    Contemptuous unbelief in a willful sinning will cause the Spirit of God to leave his Temple.
    Flesh is cut off. Sealed. Called. Chosen. Faithful.

    You three do not have confidence? Speaking of you and your three likes.

    Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.


    Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.


    Heb 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
    Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any mandraw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.


    Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


    Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    Your problem is negativity. Negativity is not of faith.

    Put your trust in what the Word says that God has done, is doing, and what He will do.

    For we being left alone...which is what mistrust and negativity will speak to you, will surely fall.

    I think it was Brother Andrew that said, that he put his faith solely on God in such a way, that if he did fall, it was Gods fault.

    selah




    Jeepers Creepers...we gotta get new peepers.

    Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Laish View Post
    Yep Not by Works is still a work in progress.
    Blessings
    Bill
    More like a bad soap opera heavy on overacting, if you ask me.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Obviously we do not have to obey 1 law found in scripture, do as we please, live in sin and like the devil because of grace and eternal security.............shakes head at your incessant push of the law man.....!
    Just thought I would let this one be seen again.
    I guess obviously you do not.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    And you wonder why many see you as a Pharisee or Lawyer pushing some pseudo blend gospel.......
    Nice, real nice.
    I haven't seen a single post of his that doesn't quote the Bible, he insults no one, yet you have to insult him because of it.
    Reeeeel nice.

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    Senior Member Hizikyah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

    1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which YHWH has prepared for those who love Him."

    John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

    Hebrews 13:7-8, “Remember those leading you, who spoke the Word of יהוה to you. Consider the outcome of their behavior and imitate their belief. יהושע Messiah is the same yesterday, and today, and forever.”
    Quote Originally Posted by Speak2Me View Post
    Nice, real nice.
    I haven't seen a single post of his that doesn't quote the Bible, he insults no one, yet you have to insult him because of it.
    Reeeeel nice.
    Thank you brother! and halleluYah!!! Yes I was called a "Pharisee or Lawyer" for the above post.

    Malakyah 3:16, "Then those who reverenced YHWH spoke often one to another, and YHWH paid attention and heard them; and a Book of Remembrance was written in His presence of those who gave reverence to YHWH, and who thought uponHis Name."
    loveme1 and Seohce like this.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by JaumeJ View Post
    When an indiviual hardens his heart after learning the good ness of God, this is becoming uncircumcised....

    I suppose the spirit is no longer there....... only by true repentence will He return.

    This is a hard lesson but a good one to receive, it shows the generosity of the love of God in Jesus christ.
    Book, Chapter, and verse please.

    t t t
    Titus 2:13
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PHart View Post
    So we can question a person's salvation, but we can not affirm it? Is that what you're saying?

    But, yes, people who say they are saved but who do not act like it, and who resist correction about their behavior, go on my 'consider them an unbeliever' list. Unless I can tell they are genuinely saved by how Peter knew the gentiles he preached to were saved. In which case I know they are simply very immature in their Christian development. Probably because of poor teaching in the church. Or the absence of it.

    1 Peter 3:15 (HCSB)
    15 but honor the Messiah as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you.

    Romans 16:17-18 (NASB)
    17 Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them.
    18 For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting.

    Titus 1:9-11 (NASB)
    9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.
    10 For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
    11 who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.
    Jude 1:3 (NASB)
    3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

    t t t
    Titus 2:13
    VCO

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