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Thread: Not By Works

  1. #49561
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    For the record, since it seems to be asserted, I don't believe BillG preaches a false gospel. So any attempted martyrdom on that point is self-inflicted. Nowhere did I ever suggest such a thing.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    For the record, since it seems to be asserted, I don't believe BillG preaches a false gospel. So any attempted martyrdom on that point is self-inflicted. Nowhere did I ever suggest such a thing.
    i feel like i shouldve taken blues advice and been more patient

    but from how i see it you both are brothers...

    i dont know what time it is where youre at

    but maybe i need some coffee

    my brain seems to be firing at around 37.225%

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    Senior Member LoveGodForever's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by BillG View Post
    We are justified by faith alone, nothing more nothing less. I have never said anything different. We are saved by faith so no man can boast. Never said anything different.
    We are saved by faith,

    Ephesians 2:10 (NKJV)
    10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

    I've never said anything different.

    The point I was trying make is that people quote scripture that accords with their doctrinal beliefs.
    Even if there doctrines are false. It's what the genuinely believe, therefore they have been deceived. If one is deceived then they have been lied to.

    You only have to look at this thread to see it.

    Paul wrote to churches where false doctrines were being taught and told them to stand firm in what he had taught them.
    Which my assumption is that at the same time he would also be addressing those teaching such doctrines.

    2 Peter 2:1-3 (NKJV)
    Chapter 2
    Destructive Doctrines
    1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

    I am fully aware of the above.

    Those who genuinely distort scripture for a false gospel do so for self gain.

    Anyway time for this false gospel believe to sign off.
    Hello Bill, alot of truth in what you say here. I believe God has his people in all the Church's but he is calling those that have ears to hear back to his Word away from the teachings and traditions of me to worship God in Spirit and in truth. It is only on the Word of God we stand or fall and FAITH is the victory that overcomes the World.

    The problem however is the many trust the teachings and traditions of men over the Word of God. This is the big test for many that say they believe in God. But the scriptures give us warnings.

    Jeremiah 17
    5,
    Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

    Only to the Word of God are we safe as we seek HIm who loves and calls us to love. Only in God's Word can we find Jesus because Jesus is the Word. We can only find him when we seek and search for him with all our heart through the scriptures.

    May GOd bless you

  4. #49564
    Senior Member BillG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    For the record, since it seems to be asserted, I don't believe BillG preaches a false gospel. So any attempted martyrdom on that point is self-inflicted. Nowhere did I ever suggest such a thing.
    "Then it was mentioned how nice a guy he was to him in PM behind the scenes, such a wonderful person! But of course he was, birds of a feather flock together!

    All false teachers love and are kind to those who don't take a stance against them and defend them against those who do"

    Your post above is to my conversations with PJ.
    The person whom you say is a false teacher.
    Hm let me see, birds of a feather?
    Hm let me see, all false teachers.

    You lumped me into the flock.

    You probably didn't even read half my responses to PJ, many a time I told him I disagreed.

    And since you put me on ignore you have probably missed the posts where I have come against others vehemently all the way.

    I'm not the weak lily livered person you think I am. Trust me.


    You can't see past your hatred for me and the way I sicken you because at times I see hope in discussion.
    Last edited by BillG; 1 Week Ago at 08:50 AM.
    UnderGrace and star like this.
    Lord

    Help me to be the person my dog thinks I am.

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    Senior Member Rosemaryx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by LoveGodForever View Post
    Hello Bill, alot of truth in what you say here. I believe God has his people in all the Church's but he is calling those that have ears to hear back to his Word away from the teachings and traditions of me to worship God in Spirit and in truth. It is only on the Word of God we stand or fall and FAITH is the victory that overcomes the World.

    The problem however is the many trust the teachings and traditions of men over the Word of God. This is the big test for many that say they believe in God. But the scriptures give us warnings.

    Jeremiah 17
    5,
    Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

    Only to the Word of God are we safe as we seek HIm who loves and calls us to love. Only in God's Word can we find Jesus because Jesus is the Word. We can only find him when we seek and search for him with all our heart through the scriptures.

    May GOd bless you
    Hi LoveGodForever...This reminds me of this Scripture in Romans 10:17 Faith comes by hearing, and hearing is the Word of God......
    PSALM 107:20 He sends His word and heals me and rescues me from the pit and destruction.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by NoNameMcgee View Post
    franc used to call me that though

    The whole group declared war against calvin, so they looked at everything through calvin lenses..
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderGrace View Post
    So funny

    Wasn't Ralph the one that she prophesied would come to this forum...I would need to go way back in this thread but I am sure it is there.
    Yeah they said he was gonna set us straight.. He was a made up person.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Look at how Ralph has divided the room. All because one tried to be nice to him.

    I hope people realise that is his goal. To divide us,. And get us angry at each other in hopes of getting some of us banned because we said something.

    again, I recommend we stop giving this person who has declaried war on calvin, and only looks through calvin lenses an audience. There is being nice and Christlike, ands their is enabling.

    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph- View Post
    And we know if we really are sons of God by if we have the head of grain, the fruit, of a wheat stalk and are not tares that only look like sons of God on the outside (church attendance, leading Bible studies, leading various ministries, witnessing, being a deacon, etc.) but have no fruit.

    All who do not have the fruited head of wheat are plantings of the evil one and will be rejected when Jesus comes back and will be gathered together and burned, not saved, no matter how many church activities you got involved with. Make sure you're not one of them. Test yourself to see if you're in the faith. Look at your life. Look for the fruit of the Spirit.

    This is a good point you are making, so let's examine the scripture you are referring to see a principle.


    He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!Matthew 13:37-43


    Key Verse:


    The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.



    • the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom




    The good seeds that Jesus sowed into the earth are the sons of the kingdom.


    It will be the sons of the kingdom that stand before Him on the Day of Judgement.


    The tares will have been gathered and burned in the fire.



    • Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.






    And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
    But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:11-12



    • But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”




    Just because a person is a son of the kingdom, doesn't somehow guarantee they will be saved on the Day of Judgement.



    Again, the sons of the kingdom will be Judged according to their deeds, on the Day of Judgement.



    “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[c] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ Matthew 25:31-36


    All these who are standing before His throne on the Day of Judgement are sons of the kingdom.


    Look at the reason why Jesus says these inherited the kingdom of God.


    ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    for [because] I was hungry and you gave Me food;
    I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
    I was a stranger and you took Me in;
    I was naked and you clothed Me;
    I was sick and you visited Me;
    I was in prison and you came to Me.’



    These sons of the kingdom produced the fruit of the kingdom, which is love.


    The whole context of this final teaching on the mount of Olives, begins in Matthew 24:45, where Jesus gives examples of His servants that He gives responsibility to, in His absence.


    “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing.Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods.But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of,51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:45-51


    • Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household



    This is about His servants, sons of the kingdom, who have been promoted to be ruler over His household to oversee His people and give them provision during His absence.



    • One was faithful


    • The other was not not



    All the parables leading up to the Judgement Day in Matthew 25:31-46, are about His servants, sons of the kingdom who will be judged according to their deeds.




    God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8



    • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;






    JPT
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealRalph View Post
    BEHOLD


    Ralph is here, now bring forth your questions and I will answer them one by one.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by justpassinthrough View Post
    This is a good point you are making, so let's examine the scripture you are referring to see a principle.


    He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!Matthew 13:37-43




    • One was faithful


    • The other was not not



    All the parables leading up to the Judgement Day in Matthew 25:31-46, are about His servants, sons of the kingdom who will be judged according to their deeds.





    JPT
    Amen Brother!

    Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you; reprove a wise man, and he will love you (Proverbs 9:8).


    Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid (Proverbs 12:1).


    A scoffer does not like to be reproved; he will not go to the wise (Proverbs 15:12).


    Whoever ignores instruction despises himself, but he who listens to reproof gains intelligence (Proverbs 15:32).


    Whoever rebukes a man will afterward find more favor than he who flatters with his tongue (Proverbs 28:23).


    As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear (1 Timothy 5:20 New Testament).

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Gentlemen, here are but a few Scriptures we should be meditating on. There are MANY similar ones, but you get the idea. We know strife within the body is NOT from our Father, whether we try and justify it by the Word or not. Peace, Grace and Love to You!

    Colossians 3:13New King James Version (NKJV)


    13 bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.


    Proverbs 17:17New King James Version (NKJV)

    17 A friend loves at all times,
    And a brother is born for adversity.


    Psalm 133:1New King James Version (NKJV)

    Blessed Unity of the People of God

    A Song of Ascents. Of David.

    133 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
    For brethren to dwell together in unity!



    Ephesians 4:2New King James Version (NKJV)

    2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love,


    1 John 4:20New King James Version (NKJV)

    Obedience by Faith

    20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can[a] he love God whom he has not seen?

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    Senior Member Budman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    If that is true then you are not saved. Nobody is. Not even you, because the Bible says the person who lives the life described in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:21, Ephesians 5:5, and 1 John 3:6-10 is not saved.
    Odd. You just condemned the apostle Paul:

    " I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate to do....For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil that I do not want to do - this I keep on doing" (Romans 7:15, 18-19)

    All present tense, Ralph.

    True believers are growing out of sin.


    And have you "grown out of sin" yet, Ralph?

    That person does not 'go on sinning'. He does not abide in sin because God's seed abides in him. That's how we know we have passed from death to life. But the person who goes on sinning is not saved. That's why he goes on sinning.


    That's not what it says at all, Ralph. It says a believer will not, nor can not sin. It says nothing about "going on sinning". It says we can't sin at all.

    Try again.

    But the person who goes on sinning is not saved.


    Yet you yourself go on sinning - every single day - thus, by your own admission, you are not saved.

    God does not grade on a curve, Ralph. If even one sin is attributed to us, we are damned. Whether a person commits one murder or one thousand, they are a murderer. If a person only steals one thing or one thousand items, they are a thief. The Bible says even one lie will keep us out of heaven. (Revelation 21:8).

    You are so obsessed with doing works to prove you are a believer, but the Bible says; "However, to the one who does not work, but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:5)

    And: "If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, as if through fire." (1 Corinthians 3:15)

    A lack of good works will cost a Christian rewards at the Judgment Seat, and sin will earn earthly chastisement from the Lord, but they themselves will remain saved - despite what you preach, Ralph.






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    Senior Member Lucy-Pevensie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealRalph View Post
    BEHOLD


    Ralph is here, now bring forth your questions and I will answer them one by one.

    BOO!



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    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Oh Ralphie, please like I said let us try to avoid distorted reasoning,

    Maybe it is because you are so young you missed this.....but law keeping was never able to save according to scripture, therefore it cannot be evidence for salvation.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph- View Post
    If keeping God's commands is 'law keeping' then yes. Surely you don't think living in adultery, or stealing, or coveting, or not loving your neighbor as yourself is the sign of being saved, do you?
    PennEd, dcontroversal and Budman like this.
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy-Pevensie View Post
    BOO!


    : Diclaimer :
    Therealralph was me just playing around

    i was under the assumption that he was a make believe character and thought it was funny at the time... i made 12 posts then never logged on it again... and wont

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    Preacher

    I could say to you that you have been deceived too. You deny the baptism of Holy Spirit. That's what Bill was saying. We all believe we are saying the truth.

    It could be depressing if one doesnt study for themselves and are assured of their belief.

    This is how the winds of doctrines shake people.
    Please point us all to where I've denied the baptism of the Spirit as you've accused.

    Sister, your words are not true.

    Goodness sake people...
    SovereignGrace likes this.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Wow. Calvin worked out! Where did he find the time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy-Pevensie View Post
    BOO!


    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    A lack of good works will cost a Christian rewards at the Judgment Seat, and sin will earn earthly chastisement from the Lord, but they themselves will remain saved - despite what you preach, Ralph.

    God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


    Here is a snap shot of the Day of Judgement, whereby, His servants, His people, His sons of the kingdom will be Judged according to their deeds.





    31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[c] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
    37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did itto one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
    41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
    44 “Then they also will answer Him,[d] saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
    Matthew 25:31-46



    JPT

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    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Good advice still ...I just need to follow it

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderGrace View Post
    Yeah,

    I agree I am leaving it alone

    Thanks for the advice.
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

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