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Thread: Not By Works

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    Default Re: Not By Works



    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamah View Post
    His Spirit does not do or teach anything against what He spoke and is written:

    John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”


    John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.”

    IF the "spirit" is saying something other than what is written, it is not His Spirit.
    Apparently, you have no idea what it means to be led of Him. Nor of His giftings. But, that another thread.

    Be filled with His Spirit. Walk as He walked. That's obedience.
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    Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.


    Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

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    Psalm 25:8-10, “Good and upright is יהוה: therefore will he teach sinners in the way. The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way. All the paths of יהוה are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.”
    Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”


    John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”


    John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    Apparently, you have no idea what it means to be led of Him. Nor of His giftings. But, that another thread.

    Be filled with His Spirit. Walk as He walked. That's obedience.
    I have no idea? You are judgemental and I have said nothing but we should depend on Him and His words, that His words are our guide. You are bring dishonest and rude.
    Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”


    John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”


    John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    Yes, Abraham learned by his mistakes as did all those God considered Righteous. That's what children do, they learn by their mistakes, they learn from falling. It's part of life. But you ignore God's Words regarding Abraham.

    Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
    5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

    Abraham was considered righteous "BECAUSE" he followed God's Instructions, not because he rejected them as Uzzah did. You accuse Abraham of "many" sins after he turned to God in obedience. God, however, does not condemn him. But Cain God did condemn, Ham, God did condemn, Uzzah God did condemn. Like DJ said, it was because Abraham and Rehab trusted God enough to listen and follow His instructions that they were considered different than Uzzah and Ham who did not. Like Jesus said:

    John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

    No one is saying they can forgive their own sins EG. I don't know why you keep implying this. But there is a difference between the "works" of Abraham and Rehab, and the "works" of Ham and Uzzah. And the difference is discerned by their choices, their "works". One trusted God enough to listen and follow His instructions, and one didn't. How can you deny this?
    Am not EG, and he will answer well. I just have a point to make.

    The new covenant is completely different from the old. The old is I will do this if you do that.

    The new is a will of inheritance which none of the OT saints had.

    Makes a whole different understand of truth if you put this fact into thinking.

    now butting out.
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    Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.


    Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamah View Post
    I have no idea? You are judgemental and I have said nothing but we should depend on Him and His words, that His words are our guide. You are bring dishonest and rude.
    Well, I too don't like to hear something I want to hold on to. But, eventually I have to. Truth has a way of doing that.

    Am sorry you think me rude. I think you are a legalistic that confuses many with your legalistic wrong ideas about the body of Christ.

    So keep posting, I will too.
    Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.


    Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    We are saved by believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's all about believing. Those in Christ are called BELIEVERS! Here is just a sample of Scripture:

    Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

    Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

    Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

    Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

    Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

    Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

    Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

    1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

    1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    Am not EG, and he will answer well. I just have a point to make.
    I do not answer most of his nonsense, Must like Ralph, or Johns imputation of Jesus Faith, I just ignore it. People make up stuff, and I get sick of trying to respond to made up stuff.. (like the pharisee did not think he was righteous because he obeyed Gods commands) there is only so many times you can respond until it just gets old.

    He wants you to think Abraham was found by his works not his faith. Of course if this were true, Jesus could have kept his abode in heaven, and made us all earn our salvation by our works.


    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    Well, I too don't like to hear something I want to hold on to. But, eventually I have to. Truth has a way of doing that.

    Am sorry you think me rude. I think you are a legalistic that confuses many with your legalistic wrong ideas about the body of Christ.

    So keep posting, I will too.
    1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    in all things not just love. Is why we receive His Spirit. Otherwise, without Him, we cannot.
    Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.


    Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    I do not answer most of his nonsense, Must like Ralph, or Johns imputation of Jesus Faith, I just ignore it. People make up stuff, and I get sick of trying to respond to made up stuff.. (like the pharisee did not think he was righteous because he obeyed Gods commands) there is only so many times you can respond until it just gets old.

    He wants you to think Abraham was found by his works not his faith. Of course if this were true, Jesus could have kept his abode in heaven, and made us all earn our salvation by our works.


    Exactly, EG, but what about the lambs? We can't faint in adversity. Is why I keep giving the scriptures, for my words are unprofitable.

    to add this though, I see what John is saying, so not adding him in that exactly.
    Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.


    Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    Well, I too don't like to hear something I want to hold on to. But, eventually I have to. Truth has a way of doing that.

    Am sorry you think me rude. I think you are a legalistic that confuses many with your legalistic wrong ideas about the body of Christ.

    So keep posting, I will too.
    I forgot I should have added his too. He says he depends on God, Yet all he does day in and day out is post on works and works and more works.. And now he says your rude and judgmental because you disagree with him.

    when will it end.


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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    Exactly, EG, but what about the lambs? We can't faint in adversity. Is why I keep giving the scriptures, for my words are unprofitable.

    to add this though, I see what John is saying, so not adding him in that exactly.
    keep giving scripture. With what you think they mean, and not just post scripture like many, and leave people to guess what they are trying to say.
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    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    I forgot I should have added his too. He says he depends on God, Yet all he does day in and day out is post on works and works and more works.. And now he says your rude and judgmental because you disagree with him.

    when will it end.


    only He knows
    Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.


    Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

    People were not talking about how those Gentile Romans got saved, but their testimony now that they are saved. The faith of the Roman believers was displayed through their obedience. Comparing Scripture to Scripture...
    Romans 16:19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

    Again, we are saved by believing the gospel. At the moment of belief, we are justified. Once we are saved, we live out our faith through obedience, good works. Some believes are strong in their faith, mature. Some believers are weak in their faith, babes.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    Well, I too don't like to hear something I want to hold on to. But, eventually I have to. Truth has a way of doing that.

    Am sorry you think me rude. I think you are a legalistic that confuses many with your legalistic wrong ideas about the body of Christ.

    So keep posting, I will too.
    I see no issue with believeing and promoting His ways are right and to be followed.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    in all things not just love. Is why we receive His Spirit. Otherwise, without Him, we cannot.
    Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Messiah Yahshua, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."


    1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."


    1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”
    Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”


    John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”


    John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chester View Post
    You are misrepresenting my presentation of John 3:36
    Sorry, but this isn't true. You misused it (John 3:36) to prove loss of salvation.

    I won't have dialog with someone being dishonest about things stated. Sorry if that offends you.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon


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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    I do not answer most of his nonsense, Must like Ralph, or Johns imputation of Jesus Faith, I just ignore it. People make up stuff, and I get sick of trying to respond to made up stuff.. (like the pharisee did not think he was righteous because he obeyed Gods commands) there is only so many times you can respond until it just gets old.

    He wants you to think Abraham was found by his works not his faith. Of course if this were true, Jesus could have kept his abode in heaven, and made us all earn our salvation by our works.
    It is false to preach that the Pharisees were keeping God's Commands. You are just making this up to justify your traditions. You call Jesus a liar every time you preach this nonsense. And it is a falsehood to say God didn't bless Abraham because Abraham trusted Him enough to follow His instructions. You just make this up to justify your religious traditions. Every time you preach Abraham had faith without works you make God a liar. God is not a liar EG. He said He blessed Abraham "BECAUSE" Abraham obeyed Him. Jesus is not a liar EG, He said the Pharisees were not obeying God, but had created their own commandments.

    Why you refuse to accept these simply, clearly outlined truths is fascinating to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    We are saved by believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's all about believing. Those in Christ are called BELIEVERS! Here is just a sample of Scripture:

    Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

    Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

    Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

    Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

    Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

    Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

    Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

    1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

    1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    My point...is belief and faith the same thing?

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    It is false to preach that the Pharisees were keeping God's Commands. You are just making this up to justify your traditions. You call Jesus a liar every time you preach this nonsense. And it is a falsehood to say God didn't bless Abraham because Abraham trusted Him enough to follow His instructions. You just make this up to justify your religious traditions. Every time you preach Abraham had faith without works you make God a liar. God is not a liar EG. He said He blessed Abraham "BECAUSE" Abraham obeyed Him. Jesus is not a liar EG, He said the Pharisees were not obeying God, but had created their own commandments.

    Why you refuse to accept these simply, clearly outlined truths is fascinating to me.
    many constantly do this when it is clearly wrong:

    2 Kings 17:19, “Yehuḏah, also, did not guard the commands of יהוה their Strength, but walked in the laws of Yisra’yl which they made.”


    Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrinethe commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition."
    Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”


    John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”


    John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    My point...is belief and faith the same thing?

    I can believe, yet not have faith

    I can not hae faith and not believe.

    The problem is English, You do not say I faith in something, so you say I believe in something.
    1ofthem likes this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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