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Thread: Not By Works

  1. #50461
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    It is false to preach that the Pharisees were keeping God's Commands. You are just making this up to justify your traditions. You call Jesus a liar every time you preach this nonsense. And it is a falsehood to say God didn't bless Abraham because Abraham trusted Him enough to follow His instructions. You just make this up to justify your religious traditions. Every time you preach Abraham had faith without works you make God a liar. God is not a liar EG. He said He blessed Abraham "BECAUSE" Abraham obeyed Him. Jesus is not a liar EG, He said the Pharisees were not obeying God, but had created their own commandments.

    Why you refuse to accept these simply, clearly outlined truths is fascinating to me.
    It is fascinating to you. Yet your The only one who thinks as you do.

    So keep being fascinated. I will keep believeing reality. (Paul said so himself. Yet you ignore what Paul said so.)
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Habakkuk 2:4, "Behold the proud, his soul is not right in him; but the just will live by faith."


    faith” is word #H530 אֱמוּנָה 'emuwnah (em-oo-naw') n-f., אֱמֻנָה 'emunah (em-oo-naw') [shortened], 1. (literally) firmness., 2. (figuratively) security., 3. (morally) fidelity.
    [feminine of H529], KJV: faith(-ful, -ly, -ness, (man)), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily. , Root(s): H529

    faith” is word #H530 Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) 1) firmness, fidelity, steadfastness, steadiness

    faith” #H530 Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
    Feminine of H0529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity:—faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily.
    Studyman likes this.
    Hiz Temp acct.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamah View Post
    I see no issue with believeing and promoting His ways are right and to be followed.



    Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Messiah Yahshua, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."


    1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."


    1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”
    By His Spirit.



    2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:


    2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


    2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;


    2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;


    2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.


    2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.


    2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

    see this shamah?

    We have been given all things through Holy Spirit to live godly and partake of His Divine nature.

    Then there is the list of what we have, plus more we can claim. By laws? NO!

    By His PROMISES!

    This is what needs taught. All we need is in Holy Spirit. All the world needs is to see Jesus through Holy Spirit in us. That's to live and move and have our very being in Him. Not by might, power, or any quoting of rules, regulations, or laws.

    No sweat!
    Budman likes this.
    1Th 3:12 May the Lord greatly increase your love for each other and for all people, just as we love you.


    1Th 3:13 Then your hearts will be strong, blameless, and holy in the presence of God, who is our Father, when our Lord Jesus appears with all his saints.





    Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might.

  4. #50464
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    Am not EG, and he will answer well. I just have a point to make.

    The new covenant is completely different from the old. The old is I will do this if you do that.

    The new is a will of inheritance which none of the OT saints had.

    Makes a whole different understand of truth if you put this fact into thinking.

    now butting out.
    I always appreciate your replies, and I truly believe these discussions good for us.

    My understanding of the New Covenant is that it has only to do with a change in the Priesthood.

    Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD,(Jesus) I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    No more Levite Scribes to hunt down and listen to when reading the Law and Prophets.



    34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD (Jesus) for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    No more Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial, "works of the Law" for remission of sins.

    Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
    12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


    13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
    14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.



    Jesus was from the tribe of Judah, not Levi. So the "Law" was changed so Jesus could take the High Priest position. He is now our High Priest, His blood forgives sins, He writes His Laws on our hearts. No more Levite Priests.

    How is it any more than these two things, how God's Instructions are administered, and how sins are cleansed. What scriptures regarding the New Covenant can you show that makes it more than a different "Priesthood"? What scriptures shows that God's Laws were altered or amended or omitted in any way as a result of the "New Covenant"? What evidence do you have that Jesus will write different instructions on our hearts than God gave to Abraham or that is written in the Law and Prophets?



    Definitely food for thought given what is actually written regarding the New Covenant.















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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    I can believe, yet not have faith

    I can not hae faith and not believe.

    The problem is English, You do not say I faith in something, so you say I believe in something.
    I agree brother. So my next question is...do you have to have individual faith to be saved?

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    I agree brother. So my next question is...do you have to have individual faith to be saved?
    will you call out to God if you do not have faith?
    dcontroversal and Budman like this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    By His Spirit.



    2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:


    2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


    2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;


    2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;


    2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.


    2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.


    2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

    see this shamah?

    We have been given all things through Holy Spirit to live godly and partake of His Divine nature.

    Then there is the list of what we have, plus more we can claim. By laws? NO!

    By His PROMISES!

    This is what needs taught. All we need is in Holy Spirit. All the world needs is to see Jesus through Holy Spirit in us. That's to live and move and have our very being in Him. Not by might, power, or any quoting of rules, regulations, or laws.

    No sweat!
    Not to butt in

    Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

    How is it Peter tells us to follow His Instructions to receive the "Holy Spirit" or as Jesus called it "the Spirit of Truth". Didn't Paul say the same thing.

    Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

    How can we receives God's Spirit if we don't "seek Him" and follow His Instructions?

    Butting out Stones , more food for thought.

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    Senior Member stonesoffire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    I always appreciate your replies, and I truly believe these discussions good for us.

    My understanding of the New Covenant is that it has only to do with a change in the Priesthood.

    Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD,(Jesus) I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    No more Levite Scribes to hunt down and listen to when reading the Law and Prophets.



    34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD (Jesus) for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    No more Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial, "works of the Law" for remission of sins.

    Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
    12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


    13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
    14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.



    Jesus was from the tribe of Judah, not Levi. So the "Law" was changed so Jesus could take the High Priest position. He is now our High Priest, His blood forgives sins, He writes His Laws on our hearts. No more Levite Priests.

    How is it any more than these two things, how God's Instructions are administered, and how sins are cleansed. What scriptures regarding the New Covenant can you show that makes it more than a different "Priesthood"? What scriptures shows that God's Laws were altered or amended or omitted in any way as a result of the "New Covenant"? What evidence do you have that Jesus will write different instructions on our hearts than God gave to Abraham or that is written in the Law and Prophets?



    Definitely food for thought given what is actually written regarding the New Covenant.















    Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

    this isnt the only place in scripture that speaks of our inheritance.

    We just skim over words at times, and then comes the aha moment. I do it all the time, then want to kick myself for not seeing it before.

    and thank you for the kind words.

    Also, my husband is a Levite. He will gladly receive your tithes.
    1Th 3:12 May the Lord greatly increase your love for each other and for all people, just as we love you.


    1Th 3:13 Then your hearts will be strong, blameless, and holy in the presence of God, who is our Father, when our Lord Jesus appears with all his saints.





    Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might.

  9. #50469
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    will you call out to God if you do not have faith?
    To add. Will you admit your hopeless if you do not hae faith

    Will you stop trying to earn salvation or help God by working if you do not have faith?

    Will you rest in Gods promises if you do not have faith?
    dcontroversal and Budman like this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    I've been falsely accused by Chester on here concerning his usage (misusage) of John 3:36, when I stated he tried to turn it into a verse proving loss of salvation.

    He denied he said this, and then told me I misrepresented him.

    Well, sorry, as I stated, that is not true, I did not misrepresent him at all.

    Here is his quote stating it himself to which I referred:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chester View Post
    John 3:36
    He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    Among other Scriptures that could be used here I chose John 3:36. Scripture teaches clearly that the one who is believing (in Christ) has eternal life, and the one who is not believing does not have eternal life. Hence I conclude that if one ceases to believe then he does not have eternal life (that is, loses salvation) - This is point # 1 above.

    (See post 47115 for original three points)
    ...not sure why there is so much dishonesty among Christians on here.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Studyman View Post
    Not to butt in

    Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

    How is it Peter tells us to follow His Instructions to receive the "Holy Spirit" or as Jesus called it "the Spirit of Truth". Didn't Paul say the same thing.

    Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

    How can we receives God's Spirit if we don't "seek Him" and follow His Instructions?

    Butting out Stones , more food for thought.

    Holy Spirit is given once accompanied with giftings according to His will. And I didn't say at anytime to not do His instructions,

    My idea of the works we are called to do is not just good things done to people. Though they can be. Jesus spelled out what works are to be done before He left.

    Why butt out?
    1Th 3:12 May the Lord greatly increase your love for each other and for all people, just as we love you.


    1Th 3:13 Then your hearts will be strong, blameless, and holy in the presence of God, who is our Father, when our Lord Jesus appears with all his saints.





    Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    I can believe, yet not have faith

    I can not hae faith and not believe.

    The problem is English, You do not say I faith in something, so you say I believe in something.
    Amen…The Pharisees believed that God is real, but they did not truly have faith in God.

    I’m sure they believed that God was going to send the Messiah. However, when God sent him and he was standing right in front of them, they had no faith in him, and would not accept him.

    So they believed in God, but they did not truly have faith in him.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    will you call out to God if you do not have faith?
    I call out to God believing He hears me. That's me living out my faith. Faith demands substance, evidence. The evidence of my faith is shown by me calling out to God.

    And yet, I was declared righteous and justified the moment I believed the gospel.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    I've been falsely accused by Chester on here concerning his usage (misusage) of John 3:36, when I stated he tried to turn it into a verse proving loss of salvation.

    He denied he said this, and then told me I misrepresented him.

    Well, sorry, as I stated, that is not true, I did not misrepresent him at all.

    Here is his quote stating it himself to which I referred:



    ...not sure why there is so much dishonesty among Christians on here.
    He is failing to see that the rejection of Jesus is what brings Gods wrath. For the one law to the world is to repent and turn to Gods offering of salvation. Or God can't do anything for anyone if He is rejected.

    This is not what Believers do who are converted. Conversion and the new nature? We cry Abba Father. And our prayers are to Father now in the name of His Son Jesus.

    Some just need to hear once. Others dull in hearing.

    Holy Spirit was talking to me about dullness of hearing. Had forgotten that until I said it.
    1Th 3:12 May the Lord greatly increase your love for each other and for all people, just as we love you.


    1Th 3:13 Then your hearts will be strong, blameless, and holy in the presence of God, who is our Father, when our Lord Jesus appears with all his saints.





    Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    I call out to God believing He hears me. That's me living out my faith. Faith demands substance, evidence. The evidence of my faith is shown by me calling out to God.

    And yet, I was declared righteous and justified the moment I believed the gospel.
    You were declaired righteous when your had faith, when like the tax collector. You called out to God. And you did that because you had faith.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  16. #50476
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by 1ofthem View Post
    Amen…The Pharisees believed that God is real, but they did not truly have faith in God.

    I’m sure they believed that God was going to send the Messiah. However, when God sent him and he was standing right in front of them, they had no faith in him, and would not accept him.

    So they believed in God, but they did not truly have faith in him.
    vipers...whitewashed tombs...they were wicked 1.
    dcontroversal, Budman and 1ofthem like this.
    1Th 3:12 May the Lord greatly increase your love for each other and for all people, just as we love you.


    1Th 3:13 Then your hearts will be strong, blameless, and holy in the presence of God, who is our Father, when our Lord Jesus appears with all his saints.





    Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    You were declaired righteous when your had faith, when like the tax collector. You called out to God. And you did that because you had faith.
    Even as Abraham believed God, and it(his belief) was accounted to him for righteousness.

    So what do you think the difference is between belief and faith?

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Studyman

    are the laws written on our heart? Or have we been given His nature?

    food for thought..selah
    1Th 3:12 May the Lord greatly increase your love for each other and for all people, just as we love you.


    1Th 3:13 Then your hearts will be strong, blameless, and holy in the presence of God, who is our Father, when our Lord Jesus appears with all his saints.





    Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Even as Abraham believed God, and it(his belief) was accounted to him for righteousness.

    So what do you think the difference is between belief and faith?
    Abraham did not just believe God, He trusted him, If he just believed him, we would never know who abraham was.

    please do not tell me you do not know the difference between believe, and faith.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  20. #50480
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    He is failing to see that the rejection of Jesus is what brings Gods wrath. For the one law to the world is to repent and turn to Gods offering of salvation. Or God can't do anything for anyone if He is rejected.

    This is not what Believers do who are converted. Conversion and the new nature? We cry Abba Father. And our prayers are to Father now in the name of His Son Jesus.

    Some just need to hear once. Others dull in hearing.

    Holy Spirit was talking to me about dullness of hearing. Had forgotten that until I said it.
    All the lost are under wrath prior to any rejection of Christ; Ephesians 2:3, John 3:17&c.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    Open Theism and Molinism, two inept theological camps, do err in this sense; God doesn't have an R&D department, He does all things perfectly.

    A god who can be fashioned by our own thoughts is no more a god than an image produced by our own hands. - Charles Spurgeon

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