Not By Works

[Studyman]

Apples and oranges....and I do not, nor have I ever had an image of JESUS on my wall....my view on Jesus is that he was not some good looking, flowing brown haired, blue eyed man like you see in the Catholic paintings......if anything he was probably one of the most base, weak looking average ordinary Jewish man.....there was nothing in him that would make us desire him according to scriptures.......and the law proves guilt....it does not exonerate anyone....for the record....I hate statues of JESUS, MARY, any SAINT and fully despise the paintings and pics of JESUS that make hi out like this good looking, brown haired blue eyed stud............not my Jesus

Amen,

I couldn't agree more. Even if the image did resemble Him, and we both know it doesn't, what kind of friend would I be if I took a picture of my friend naked and beaten, in the most humiliating, vulnerable circumstance in their life and spread it all over the world. I would like it someone did that to me. Truly one tradition of modern religion that I can't stand.

I guess we may have something in common after all.

 

[Ralph-]

Very well,I'll have this question waiting on you...
How can a saved believer commit unbelief?

How? By choosing to not believe anymore because of the tribulations and trials that come with the faith (soil #2). Or, by gradually shrinking down into unbelief through an entanglement with and a love of the world (soil #3). Only those with soil #4 may have grown to a point where they are unmovable. Their roots go down deep and they do not have concern during times of drought. Their leaf always stays green.

But none of this changes the simple truth that if you have no changed life when Jesus comes back you will condemned as an unbeliever.

 

[Ralph-]

NO, you phrased it all wrong, once again.

HE SAID:


John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.


GOD said HE had the HOLY SPIRIT place HIS Love in our hearts, and it is MANIFESTED by our willingness to OBEY; IT IS A GIVEN. True Believers WILL WANT TO OBEY as an ACT OF LOVE, and Counterfeit Christians do not want to OBEY, and may even like you just say "I have to obey". THERE IS NO
"have works to be saved when Jesus comes back or not?"

Our New Nature of our Born Again Human Spirit will WANT to OBEY HIM out of LOVE for HIM.

That's what I've been saying. You have to have works when Jesus comes back or else you show that you do not love God and so do not know him in salvation.

 

[stonesoffire]

You have nothing to be sorry about.
Let's like every post when someone reveals something they they never knew about God.

That's not only worth a like, that's worth praising God.

Maybe we should have a praise God response button to click

We need sound too. Wouldn't a blah blah blah be great to click on? Lol

 

[stonesoffire]

The story of David is a blessing to us. He sinned and paid a heavy price for it. He repented and continued to pay the price. Due to his repentance God said he was a man after God's own heart. Therefore if we sin and repent to God we have the same forgiveness.

Was it repentance that made him that? I think it was because he spent much time alone with the Lord while shepherding and had a real relationship with Him. Love. Love then sorrow for trespassing that love, led him to repent.

 

[stonesoffire]

Nobody here is saying works earn salvation. Yes, there is some weird stuff being pushed here some times, but no one is saying works earn salvation.

The church always hears 'works' as you trying to earn your own salvation. Faith that is alive, not dead, is the faith that saves. That's not a works gospel. Even when you explain it to people how only the faith that works saves they still continue to hear 'works' as one trying to earn their own salvation. We are in the end times.

The delusion is strong. Christ will return soon. Only a few enter in through the narrow way to life. Everyone who hears the words of Jesus and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. When the storm came it fell, and great was it's fall.

Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of the Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from dead actions so that we may serve the living God!

 

[Ralph-]

The changed life is an internal spiritual reality

The changed life is everlasting, not temporal, declared by God in eternity not in our day to day existence

The changed life is learning to externalize what is internal, which not everyone does the same.

I suggest you spend time ministering to people on skid row, and watch the battles of the flesh they face minute to minute, hour by hour. something we in our middle class lens could never understand and when they succumb you will know that they have not lost their salvation but they have given into the temptations that have had a tremendous stronghold on them.

Sometimes they manage to walk a worthy walk in Him and sometimes they do not.

We'll know if they have an internal spiritual reality by how they handle their skid row experience.

 

[dcontroversal]

Nope. Not what I said. But I believe that you heard it that way. You are in the delusion that controls the church.

Keep telling yourself that.....all the way to the plenteous in number that points to your works instead of Christ..........

 

[stonesoffire]

I know you can only hear 'being saved' that one way....the moment of salvation when you first believe. Jesus and the apostles speak at length about being saved when he comes back. Peter refers to it when he says, "a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time"-2 Peter 1:5.

You will be saved when he comes back IF you get saved ahead of time in this life. And we know if we are saved now and ready to meet him when he comes back by if we are growing up into the traits of the Spirit....kindness, patience, calmness, peace, forgiveness, love, etc. The changed/ changing life is how you know you are saved now and will be saved in the end.

Works do matter. You have to have works to be saved when he comes back or you do not have the salvation by faith apart from works that you think you do. Dead faith can not save. James said so.

lets look at 2Peter:


[h=2]Greeting[/h]2Pe 1:1 From: Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus, the Messiah. To: Those who have received faith that is as valuable as ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus the Messiah.


2Pe 1:2 May grace and peace be yours in abundance through full knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord!
[h=2]Confirm Your Calling and Election[/h]2Pe 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through the full knowledge of the one who called us by his own glory and excellence.

through the gift of Holy Spirit


2Pe 1:4 Through these he has given us his precious and wonderful promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, seeing that you have escaped the corruption that is in the world caused by evil desires.

already escaped- walking by the Word- identity in Him, and we put faith in promises.


2Pe 1:5 For this very reason, you must make every effort to supplement your faith with moral character, your moral character with knowledge,

putting on the Lord- as we see Him, we become like Him- revelation by word


2Pe 1:6 your knowledge with self-control, your self-control with endurance, your endurance with godliness,

practicing what are given in union with Holy Spirit


2Pe 1:7 your godliness with brotherly kindness, and your brotherly kindness with love.

depending on the love given through Him- intimacy


2Pe 1:8 For if you possess these qualities, and if they continue to increase among you, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in attaining a full knowledge of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah.

possess comes again from union.


2Pe 1:9 For the person who lacks these qualities is blind and shortsighted, and has forgotten the cleansing that he has received from his past sins.

blind- short sighted- immature in walk- a late bloomer.


2Pe 1:10 So then, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election certain, for if you keep on doing this you will never fail.

victorious walk- the goal of God to perfect in us


2Pe 1:11 For in this way you will be generously granted entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Messiah.

special recognition


2Pe 1:12 Therefore, I intend to keep on reminding you about these things, even though you already know them and are firmly established in the truth that you now have.

good to be reminded of what we have


2Pe 1:13 Yet I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I am living in this bodily tent,


2Pe 1:14 because I know that the removal of my bodily tent will come soon, as indeed our Lord Jesus, the Messiah, has shown me.


2Pe 1:15 And I will make every effort to see that you will always remember these things after I am gone.
[h=2][/h]

 

[dcontroversal]

That's what I've been saying. You have to have works when Jesus comes back or else you show that you do not love God and so do not know him in salvation.

Loving God is a process of growth and maturity AFTER one has been saved.....it has nothing to do with how one obtains eternal salvation which is by faith and faith alone! Anything beyond that is the direct result of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ!

 

[Ralph-]

Keep telling yourself that.....all the way to the plenteous in number that points to your works instead of Christ..........

The Christian has works BECAUSE of Christ. Works do not steal glory from God because you can not do them outside of Christ. Works point to Christ.


“Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven."-Matthew 5:16


I've only known unbelievers to be the ones who tear down the works of Christians. People with spiritual works in Christ don't do that.

 

[stonesoffire]

It depends on the perception of heaven, where it is, and where in time it is. But I won't go into my thoughts on that. Although the Bible clearly says that the kingdom of heaven is within. It is right there.

Theres a difference between the kingdom of God, and the kingdom of heaven. Check it in scripture mj, not being picky, but of God is He ruling within by His Spirit. Of heaven is above.

Rightly dividing.

 

[UnderGrace]

Seriously...."handle their skid row experience"

Well that says a lot about how comfortable you feel judging others less fortunate than you

What a sad statement

We'll know if they have an internal spiritual reality by how they handle their skid row experience.

 

[Ralph-]

Loving God is a process of growth and maturity AFTER one has been saved.....

Maybe, maybe not.

it has nothing to do with how one obtains eternal salvation which is by faith and faith alone!

Everybody knows works do not obtain eternal salvation.
Works show if you have it.

Anything beyond that is the direct result of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ!

That's what I've been saying. That's why works show you are saved.

 

[Ralph-]

Seriously...."handle their skid row experience"

Well that says a lot about how comfortable you feel judging others less fortunate than you

What a sad statement

Hmm....says a lot, huh? I'm always amazed at how you people love to call us out for supposedly judging and then turn right around and judge.

 

[UnderGrace]

I am not judging anything about you, I am baffled once again by your comfort level to make such a statement.

Hmm....says a lot, huh? I'm always amazed at how you people love to call us out for supposedly judging and then turn right around and judge.

 

[stonesoffire]

Yes, well I still messed up in a few ways over the years and had to get back on my knees before The Lord to repent of my wickedness.

We all go through a time of messing up until the truth that we are dead. Dead to sin. And have been from the moment we were born again. Then we see that we are alive unto God....and life in the Spirit takes off. This is just working out our salvation until our mind is renewed.

And we rest from striving, yet live...



Free to be. Might take a lifetime. Might be from beginning. Matters not. We are His, secure in Him, sealed in Spirit.

 

[UnderGrace]

Well I suggest we do a running tally of good works each day and then we can find out who among us is saved?

Of course now there is only one perfect person, Jesus, so He will have to be our standard of measurement each and every minute of the day.

Could we agree then that anything less than Jesus (Perfect) means not saved?

Maybe, maybe not.




Everybody knows works do not obtain eternal salvation.
Works show if you have it.



That's what I've been saying. That's why works show you are saved.

 

[Ralph-]

Theres a difference between the kingdom of God, and the kingdom of heaven. Check it in scripture mj...

Rightly dividing.

This argument, and the Nephilim used to be among the most talked about topics in forums.

The kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are exactly identical in scripture. Rightly divide. That means know the whole counsel of scripture and don't improperly lift a verse or passage out of context. Interpret the Bible using the Bible.


" 23And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24“Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”-Matthew 19:23-24


One and the same thing.

 

[Ralph-]

Could we agree then that anything less than Jesus (Perfect) means not saved?

No.

Living in your old life and not having an ever increasing life of obedience means you are not saved.

Saved people should be keenly aware of the difference between living in sin as an unbeliever and the struggles of growing up into Christ as a believer.