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Thread: Not By Works

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by loyaldisciple View Post
    it does not matter if the verse said both, it was not printed "exactly" as he had it printed. Therefore, what he said was "his words" and not any verse. You simply don't understand. You cannot change a verse, even the slightest, and it still remain a verse. You keep attempting to get around this rule in the Bible, but you cannot.
    What you have said is true.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Greek Concordance: ἔργων (ergōn) -- 43 Occurrences


    Romans 3:28 N-GNP
    GRK: ἄνθρωπον χωρὶς ἔργων νόμου
    NAS: by faith apart from works of the Law.
    KJV: by faith without the deeds of the law.
    INT: a man apart from works of law
    Last edited by Ariel82; 4 Days Ago at 08:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Ergon


    Maybe learn Greek and it wouldn't be a big deal?

    Seems like a red herring argument

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by VCO View Post
    I told you, he only paraphrased it.

    EVEN the KING JAMES VERSION, in the Original 1611 Preface, was openly ADMITTED to only be a PARAPHRASE by the Original Translation Team.
    Preface to the King James Version 1611, Part 1 of 10
    Thank you VCO, and I have repeated the same thing, to "Paraphrase is an acceptable form of communicating God's word; Pastor's and Teacher's "paraphrase" God's word, even the bibles we use are a paraphrase of the original language/text. I have paraphrased God's word at times when I needed to, and I would venture to say most of us have paraphrased a bible verse.

    Quote Originally Posted by TruthTalk View Post
    As long as a paraphrase does not conflict with the actual "meaning", of the bible verse it is perfectly acceptable to use a "paraphrase" when you are communicating God's word. Pastors and Teachers of God's word will paraphrase a bible verse when needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by TruthTalk View Post
    "Ignore trolls and they will get bored and go away."

    Good Bye Nonsense

    Last edited by TruthTalk; 4 Days Ago at 08:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by loyaldisciple View Post
    it does not matter if the verse said both, it was not printed "exactly" as he had it printed. Therefore, what he said was "his words" and not any verse. You simply don't understand. You cannot change a verse, even the slightest, and it still remain a verse. You keep attempting to get around this rule in the Bible, but you cannot.

    YOU DO KNOW THAT ENGLISH WAS NOT THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE THAT THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN IN, DON'T YOU ? ? ?


    New Testament was Written in GREEK.

    Old Testament was Written in HEBREW, and parts of it was in ARAMAIC.



    Here are the Original Languages. Please note: THAT IF YOUR STATEMENT were TRUE, we would have to learn the Original Languages just to read the BIBLE:

    QUOTE:

    The New Testament, however, was written in Greek. This seems strange, since you might think it would be either Hebrew or Aramaic. During the thousand years of its composition, almost the entire Old Testament was written in Hebrew. But a few chapters in the prophecies of Ezra and Daniel and one verse in Jeremiah were written in a language called Aramaic.

    https://www.biblica.com/resources/bible-faqs/in-what-language-was-the-bible-first-written/

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by loyaldisciple View Post
    You cannot change a verse, even the slightest, and it still remain a verse.

    Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written,
    Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve.

    (Matthew 4:10, kjv)

    where is this exact quote in the old testament?
    good news gives health to the bones
    (Proverbs 15:30)

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    Smile Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Get over yourself and this idiocy...the verse I quoted and then posted the Greek word PROVES that my use of works and deeds in the same verse was biblical...you are really looking foolish and not very biblical at all.....

    THEREFORE, we conclude a man is justified by faith without the works/deeds of the law <---THIS IS BIBLICAL

    ergon: work
    Original Word: ἔργον, ου, τό
    Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
    Transliteration: ergon
    Phonetic Spelling: (er'-gon)
    Short Definition:work, labor, action, deed
    Definition:work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.
    Men who have not been baptized by the Holy Spirit don't have the "guidance" Jesus promised (John 16:13) and can only see Scripture from a "carnal" (I Corinthians 2:14) point of view as they make an "interpretation" (I Corinthians 3:6).

    However, it is "revelation" given by the Holy Spirit (I Corinthians 2:10) who "guides us into all truth" (John 16:13) from the "Spiritual gifts" of "wisdom and knowledge" (I Corinthians 12:8) but ONLY after baptism by the Holy Spirit (I Corinthians 12:13)!

    Since he believes "under the law," one must work with him from that point of view (I Corinthians 9:22).

    I'll give the example of Abraham who HEARD A WORD FROM GOD (Holy Spirit produced) to take his son Issac and offer as a sacrifice. Abraham didn't "DO" anything until he HEARD A WORD FROM GOD therefore Abraham's ACTIONS were "produced by the Holy Spirit."

    "Abraham [only] BELIEVED GOD and it was counted to him for righteousness" and not his "ACTIONS!"

    Blessings
    Last edited by Incognito; 4 Days Ago at 08:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written,
    Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve.

    (Matthew 4:10, kjv)

    where is this exact quote in the old testament?
    i get what you're saying, loyaldisciple, and i'm just kinda jumping in without a dog in the race - ain't read the last 200 pages.
    but there seem to be examples of paraphrasing and merging citations from different sections of scripture together in the new testament - without changing the meaning of what's written, of course. what do you consider that?

    there's also that to be quite technically correct, anytime we're not quoting in Greek or Hebrew, we're necessarily introducing a '
    change' to the text.
    the Bible isn't written in English. obviously, clearly true, but surprising how often we need to be reminded
    good news gives health to the bones
    (Proverbs 15:30)

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by loyaldisciple View Post
    The exact words you posted in post 60725 are not found in any verse in any Bible in the way you presented them.

    Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law

    Show us where those exact words are in any Bible. That is not any KJV and it is not any other version. Here is the King James version and this is not what you wrote.

    ROM 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
    l...,

    Nice work..I have seen that before here...as if the means justifies the end ...wanted. LOL
    Blessings to you.

    preston39

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  10. #60970
    loyaldisciple
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    i get what you're saying, loyaldisciple, and i'm just kinda jumping in without a dog in the race - ain't read the last 200 pages.
    but there seem to be examples of paraphrasing and merging citations from different sections of scripture together in the new testament - without changing the meaning of what's written, of course. what do you consider that?

    there's also that to be quite technically correct, anytime we're not quoting in Greek or Hebrew, we're necessarily introducing a '
    change' to the text.
    the Bible isn't written in English. obviously, clearly true, but surprising how often we need to be reminded
    What you are saying here has no bearing whatsoever on what has occurred here.

    What occurred here is that dc posted "words", claiming it to be scripture, and it is not scripture in any version of any Bible at all. It was a sentence of "his words" that he falsely has claimed to be a verse. He has just been caught red handed altering a verse and has refused to admit it. How many other times has he done the same thing ? It is not something God takes lightly. He has also slandered a man falsely referring to him as a deceiver, a lawyer and a pharisee.

    REV 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

    REV 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by posthuman View Post
    Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written,
    Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve.

    (Matthew 4:10, kjv)

    where is this exact quote in the old testament?
    Wonder if someone will take up this challenge?

    I found these but no exact wording...

    1 Samuel 7:3
    And Samuel said to all the house of Israel, “If you are returning to the Lord with all your heart, then put away the foreign gods and the Ashtaroth from among you and direct your heart to the Lord and serve him only, and he will deliver you out of the hand of the Philistines.”

    Joel 2:12-13
    “Yet even now,” declares the Lord, “return to me with all your heart, with fasting, with weeping, and with mourning; and rend your hearts and not your garments.” Return to the Lord your God, for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love; and he relents over disaster.
    Last edited by Ariel82; 4 Days Ago at 08:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Praise be to God!

    Chris
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    Will he accept the Greek version of the Bible?

    Galatians 2:16 Greek Text Analysis

    Galatians 2:16 ►
    Text Analysis
    Strong's Transliteration Greek English Morphology
    1492 [e] eidotes εἰδότες knowing V-RPA-NMP
    1161 [e] de δὲ nevertheless Conj
    3754 [e] hoti ὅτι that Conj
    3756 [e] ou οὐ not Adv
    1344 [e] dikaioutai δικαιοῦται is justified V-PIM/P-3S
    444 [e] anthrōpos ἄνθρωπος a man N-NMS
    1537 [e] ex ἐξ by Prep
    2041 [e] ergōn ἔργων works N-GNP
    3551 [e] nomou νόμου of law, N-GMS
    1437 [e] ean ἐὰν if Conj
    3361 [e] mē μὴ not Adv
    1223 [e] dia διὰ through Prep
    4102 [e] pisteōs πίστεως faith N-GFS
    5547 [e] Christou Χριστοῦ ⇔ of Christ N-GMS
    2424 [e] Iēsou Ἰησοῦ, Jesus; N-GMS
    2532 [e] kai καὶ even Conj
    1473 [e] hēmeis ἡμεῖς we PPro-N1P
    1519 [e] eis εἰς in Prep
    5547 [e] Christon Χριστὸν Christ N-AMS
    2424 [e] Iēsoun Ἰησοῦν Jesus N-AMS
    4100 [e] episteusamen ἐπιστεύσαμεν, believed, V-AIA-1P
    2443 [e] hina ἵνα that Conj
    1344 [e] dikaiōthōmen δικαιωθῶμεν we might be justified V-ASP-1P
    1537 [e] ek ἐκ by Prep
    4102 [e] pisteōs πίστεως faith N-GFS
    5547 [e] Christou Χριστοῦ of Christ, N-GMS
    2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj
    3756 [e] ouk οὐκ not Adv
    1537 [e] ex ἐξ by Prep
    2041 [e] ergōn ἔργων works N-GNP
    3551 [e] nomou νόμου, of law; N-GMS
    3754 [e] hoti ὅτι because Conj
    1537 [e] ex ἐξ by Prep
    2041 [e] ergōn ἔργων works N-GNP
    3551 [e] nomou νόμου of law N-GMS
    3756 [e] ou οὐ not Adv
    1344 [e] dikaiōthēsetai δικαιωθήσεται will be justified V-FIP-3S
    3956 [e] pasa πᾶσα any Adj-NFS
    4561 [e] sarx σάρξ. flesh. N-NFS
    Greek Texts
    Nestle GNT 1904
    εἰδότες δὲ ὅτι οὐ δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος ἐξ ἔργων νόμου ἐὰν μὴ διὰ πίστεως Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ, καὶ ἡμεῖς εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐπιστεύσαμεν, ἵνα δικαιωθῶμεν ἐκ πίστεως Χριστοῦ καὶ οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων νόμου, ὅτι ἐξ ἔργων νόμου οὐ δικαιωθήσεται πᾶσα σάρξ.
    Not likely..............after he has mouthed all day he must step up to the plate and admit error....hard for a legalist to do!

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    Wonder if someone will take up this challenge?

    I found these but no exact wording...

    1 Samuel 7:3
    And Samuel said to all the house of Israel, “If you are returning to the Lord with all your heart, then put away the foreign gods and the Ashtaroth from among you and direct your heart to the Lord and serve him only, and he will deliver you out of the hand of the Philistines.”

    Joel 2:12-13
    “Yet even now,” declares the Lord, “return to me with all your heart, with fasting, with weeping, and with mourning; and rend your hearts and not your garments.” Return to the Lord your God, for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love; and he relents over disaster.
    Exodus 20:3-6 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

    II Chronicles 7:14 "
    If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

    Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."


    Plus more!

    Yet in all Old Testament Scriptures (Jeremiah 6:16) I can't find "Confess with your mouth" (Romans 10:9)! I wonder why?

    Blessings
    Last edited by Incognito; 4 Days Ago at 09:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Here is another literal statement....see who rejects this one and then goes off on an all day tangent without a leg to stand on...

    IN the grace you are, having been saved OUT of FAITH and that not of yourselves, it is the GIFT of God and not of works lest any man should boast.

    Gotta love the languages......sets us free from dogmatic religionists........and those who reject the truth......

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by tourist View Post
    What you have said is true.
    Except for the fact that I did quote the verse verbatim from the King Jimmy and gave a literal, accepted translation of ERGON....

    Deeds or works of the law are BOTH correct and saying the same thing....

    ergon: work
    Original Word: ἔργον, ου, τό
    Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
    Transliteration: ergon
    Phonetic Spelling: (er'-gon)
    Short Definition: work, labor, action, deed
    Definition: work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.

  17. #60977
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Except for the fact that I did quote the verse verbatim from the King Jimmy and gave a literal, accepted translation of ERGON....

    Deeds or works of the law are BOTH correct and saying the same thing....

    ergon: work
    Original Word: ἔργον, ου, τό
    Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
    Transliteration: ergon
    Phonetic Spelling: (er'-gon)
    Short Definition: work, labor, action, deed
    Definition: work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.
    We all know exactly what you did. You placed "your" words on a page and called it a verse. Caught red handed misquoting the Bible, then you proceed to make all sorts of excuses instead of just admitting your mistake. It doesn't matter if it means the same thing. What you posted is not the scripture of any verse in any Bible, yet you claimed it was a verse. Why don't you just admit you're not supposed to be doing that ?

    Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without the works/deeds of the law.

    Right there is what you said was a verse, yet it isn't found in any version of the Bible.I've asked you to show us all what Bible it came from 10 times and you just keep making excuses and won't answer.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by loyaldisciple View Post
    JAS 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

    JAS 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

    JAS 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

    JAS 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    Very few people here ever truly listen to what God has to say. I feel Him telling me to depart from here and let people proceed in the ways of their own mind.
    l...,

    I would be gone in a second except that...there are newbies who need to be introduced with proper scripture interpretation so they can have a choice.

    We will never know but, hope is and must be our motivation.
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    Blessings to you.

    preston39

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by preston39 View Post
    l...,

    I would be gone in a second except that...there are newbies who need to be introduced with proper scripture interpretation so they can have a choice.

    We will never know but, hope is and must be our motivation.
    Always good to have another person "welcoming people" in introductions forum instead of stuck in bible discussion forum.
    This is Joefizz's signature....
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  20. #60980


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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by loyaldisciple View Post
    We all know exactly what you did. You placed "your" words on a page and called it a verse. Caught red handed misquoting the Bible, then you proceed to make all sorts of excuses instead of just admitting your mistake. It doesn't matter if it means the same thing. What you posted is not the scripture of any verse in any Bible, yet you claimed it was a verse. Why don't you just admit you're not supposed to be doing that ?

    Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without the works/deeds of the law.

    Right there is what you said was a verse, yet it isn't found in any version of the Bible.I've asked you to show us all what Bible it came from 10 times and you just keep making excuses and won't answer.

    Do you know what a paraphrase is?? THE KJV IS A PARAPHASE, translated from OLDER ENGLISH VERSION and the LATIN VERSION, NOT from the ORIGINAL LANGUAGES.

    DC used the two most common expression for that GREEK WORD and BOTH ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

    QUOTE:
    ergon
    Vine's Words: Deed, Deeds, Work, Wrought

    Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.



    THE GREEK WORK CAN BE TRANSLATE TO ALL OF THOSE MEANINGS.
    Last edited by VCO; 4 Days Ago at 12:15 AM.

    t t t
    Titus 2:13
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