Not By Works

[JIMBO43]

No one is disputing that one sin is any different than another.


I could deny that my eyes are brown. And that would be the truth, because they aren't brown. They're green/ blue..lol


You CAN deny something if it isn't true.. BUT denying Christ will get you in a whole lotta trouble.

ok so can you tell me are you 100 percent certain that you havent denied any truths at all in this thread...

Rememberbefor you answer................peter scrateched his head when Jesus said peter you will deny me three times...

Now was peter sent to hell when Jesus told him you will be my rock..

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO tHAT WOULD BE A HIPORCRIT WOULDNT IT. DONT YOU THINK THAT THISA LATEST DOCTRIN OF YOUR IS BALONEY SPAGETTI................


pS dont take it personaly and im not shouting with anger im shouting with passion as angus would say ARMEN ....

 

[JIMBO43]

[video=youtube;LBMzorDerJQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBMzorDerJQ[/video]

 

[blue_ladybug]

First of all, yes I CAN say with 100% certainty that I haven't denied any truths in this thread. Furthermore, Peter did NOT "scratch his head", he said "Lord I would never deny YOU".. MY doctrine is the bible. And NOWHERE in the bible does it say that we are saved by works, or that our works keep our salvation, OR that we must get daily salvation in the form of a "cookie" as you call it.. THAT is what the baloney spaghetti is.

Your works will NOT save you, Jim. Nor will they guarantee your way into heaven.

ok so can you tell me are you 100 percent certain that you havent denied any truths at all in this thread...

Rememberbefor you answer................peter scrateched his head when Jesus said peter you will deny me three times...

Now was peter sent to hell when Jesus told him you will be my rock..

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO tHAT WOULD BE A HIPORCRIT WOULDNT IT. DONT YOU THINK THAT THISA LATEST DOCTRIN OF YOUR IS BALONEY SPAGETTI................


pS dont take it personaly and im not shouting with anger im shouting with passion as angus would say ARMEN ....

 

[followjesus]

Yes. Very good. There are so many.
And Jesus said these things Himself.
What higher authority?

I find it causes confusion to say that we should do works because we love Jesus,
but we don't really have to do them.

Scripture is clear: Works do not save, but they do sanctify---and that's the next step.

yes our sanctification IS the will of God according to paul. I think that obedience to Jesus, and " works of the Law of moses" are 2 different things completely. the Law commanded " you must surely put the sinner among you to death" Jesus of course saved the sinner condemned according to the Mosaic Law, in His mercy and then says " Go and leave your life of sin"

obeying Jesus and keeping the hundreds of scrupulous commands of the mosaic Law are 2 seperate things One is for Christians, the other was to lead the world to Jesus the Highest authority that exists. being the ONE mediator between God and man. we can destroy our own selves if we persist in disobedience, its not Gods fault if we do that, He has made the way clear and straight, and He validated it by spilling His sons Blood to pay our debts according to the mosaic Law.

Without Jesus we would have to follow the mosaic Law so when our children dishonored us we would be commanded to drag them outside cast the first stone and all the congegation would then pick up jagged rocks and toss them until the child was killed. its a direct command of the Law of Moses. really if you compare the mosaic Law to the Gospel, there are very few similarities outside the ten commandments. and those were seperate tablets from the book of moses Law. we have the word of Life to follow and there is no condemnation in it, the law had many condemnations and repentance wasnt even provided for as an option for the laws premise is " show no pity to the sinner, no mercy upon them you must surely put them to death and purge the sin from among you.


some teach that Jesus taught the mosaic Law again, but its strange that it is so different in every aspect. if we truly take what Jess did for us to heart we will serve Him according to His will. and His will is made plain in His words. forgive others when they sin against you is the will of God, repent of our sins and follow the Lord is the will of God, care for those we are able to help who have need is the will of God, work Justice and righteousness is Gods will, be sanctified accoprding to the truth given by Jesus is Gods will. its not a mt=ystery Jesus took what was hidden because of our sins, and made it plain.


Once we believe in Jesus, there is much to do. and if we refuse to do those things we do have to stand before the One who clearly said " Learn and do these things with a fervent passion. we who have partaken of the Holy spirit should Love the idea of learning from the One who made salvation possible for us through the shedding of His own tears and His blood upon OUR cross. He did that for me, therefore i will receive every word of His as my Savior and Lord.

if we Just take His word for it, we cant deny that there are things we must do in response to the gift of hope of eternal Life

 

[JIMBO43]

Jesus wants us to be like him and do greater things than he did... so does that mean being a mirracle worker for some to like angus...


And if your answer is yes would you say that the works of angus is truly a blessing a good sign that angus is saved ?

 

[JIMBO43]

First of all, yes I CAN say with 100% certainty that I haven't denied any truths in this thread. Furthermore, Peter did NOT "scratch his head", he said "Lord I would never deny YOU".. MY doctrine is the bible. And NOWHERE in the bible does it say that we are saved by works, or that our works keep our salvation, OR that we must get daily salvation in the form of a "cookie" as you call it.. THAT is what the baloney spaghetti is.

Your works will NOT save you, Jim. Nor will they guarantee your way into heaven.

works help to save you and works help top save others.... period...like it was good works that i donated to help cc carry on in ministery..

 

[JIMBO43]

if ye turn a sinner away from there wicked way you have saved that sinner from a life of sin ..............book of james last chapter...

I know maybe ill deny that to eh... ?.

 

[JIMBO43]

Yup in the book of james it does not say ...........hear the word only the people saved by faith and grace alone will turn a sinner away from there sin and save that sinners soul....

No it says if you do this... it does not say only the people baring fruits will do this... and it does not say only the people who are doing the works of God will do this...


And it does it say only the people who have been set this task by God will do this...........



No it says you must do this from the heart...

 

[Blik]

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.


The law of Moses was a system of doing or not doing in order to achieve righteousness and it is actually a manifestation of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

This is an example of zeal for God without enought study of His word.

Nothing in scripture ever gives man the ability to achieve righteousness by law obedience. Moses knew and said that God was holy. Scripture tells us we are not born holy. There is no scripture saying Moses was in rebellion against how God created the world to operate well unless his objection to the work God chose Moses to do could be called obellion. To teach otherwise is an offense against Christ for Christ and the Father are one. To obey the Father is to obey Christ. When we disobey the report Moses gave of the ways of the Father we are to turn from that disobedience (repent) and Christ's blood wipes out our disobedience.

 

[followjesus]

Works will NOT save us. Works will NOT KEEP us saved. Works are NOT done for the purpose of KEEPING salvation..

They ARE done, because they are commanded to be done. But doing them for the purpose of keeping salvation is totally futile..

What is the difference in the gosts and the sheep in matthew 25? One group does something, and Hear this

matthew 25:34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.".....BASED ON V 40 "The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, WHATEVER YOU DID for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

the other group do not do something and Hear this

Matthew 25:45-46 "He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever YOU DID NOT DO for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’46“Then they will go away to ETERNAL PUNISHMENT, but the righteous to eternal life.”

What we do is of utmost importance regarding eternal Life or punishment for eternity. read from matt 25:31-46. to see what Jesus said about His return and His Judgement seat. i understand what you are saying i truly do. if not for Jesus what we did couldnt save us, but because He took our pre debt away, Now our account is new, we can either start a new debt or start Learning to walk debt free works cant save us, but obeying the Lord does, all because of Jesus

 

[blue_ladybug]

It is IMPOSSIBLE for us humans to do anything greater than Jesus did. And I have no idea who this Angus dude is.. I don't put my faith into human miracle workers. MY faith is in THE miracle worker.

Jesus wants us to be like him and do greater things than he did... so does that mean being a mirracle worker for some to like angus...


And if your answer is yes would you say that the works of angus is truly a blessing a good sign that angus is saved ?

 

[followjesus]

works help to save you and works help top save others.... period...like it was good works that i donated to help cc carry on in ministery..

and the great thing is when you are giving to help someone or doing something to help them, they are much more apt to hear what you are saying about Jesus, rather than not bothering to help and preaching at them. our actions tie into everything in the Christian Life. if were no different than the non believers in our actions, it looks bad on what were saying about How Jesus is able to save us and change us. it gives glory to God when we are doing the right things

Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven."

Light and good "works" << i dont like the word "works" because His ways shouldnt be greivous to us, but should be a joy to us to operate in His ways. truthfully it changes life completely when we surrender to the truth.

1 john 5:3 "In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome"

under the law it was a burden on the people its why Jesus said " come to me all ye who are weary and burdened...

they were people oppressed because of the commandments having no spirit in them, when the spirit of God comes, His words become Life to the dead, His ways become what we never understood was a joy and honor to participate in

 

[Grace777x70]

Jesus talking about the sheep are "descriptions" of what Christians do because they are one with Christ. They don't do these things to be saved in the end. It's a description of the life of Christ manifesting in them in some form.

The goats are unbelievers in Christ.

Good works does not in any form or shape save someone. For true Christians they are simply a by-product of the life of Christ in us.

There are thousands of good moral living - good deeds doing - people in many religions in the world and none of them turn into a sheep because of the good works they do. We become a sheep by believing Christ.

Get this backwards and we end up creating a works-based - works-righteousness religion that tries to mimic the life of Christ.

 

[followjesus]

I thought this was a little wrong. I was saying if the Lord does not change us we are
no better than anyone in the world.

This means you could take the worst person in the world and there would be no
improvement.

Saying one is better than anyone in the world sounds like better than everyone
in the world. That is why it confused me.

My point is Christ in us transforms us, so we go from sinner to saint.

" I was saying if the Lord does not change us we are
no better than anyone in the world."

and we have to allow that change by seeking after His will, hell never strong arm us into salvation He offers, we accept the conditions with Joy believing in the promise of eternal Life that only Jesus offers

 

[followjesus]

It is IMPOSSIBLE for us humans to do anything greater than Jesus did. And I have no idea who this Angus dude is.. I don't put my faith into human miracle workers. MY faith is in THE miracle worker.

"Humans" are "of man" christians are " of God"

 

[Meggido]

"Humans" are "of man" christians are " of God"

Christians can be anyone, Sons/daughters are of God

I know a witch who also claims to be a Christian

 

[followjesus]

Christians can be anyone, Sons/daughters are of God

I know a witch who also claims to be a Christian

Christians are born of God lol yeah anyone can be a christian if they accept the Gospel sure. if christianity is about sayinbg im christian and living as a witch....theres definately no point to it. Christians are those who accept and follow Jesus Christ being born again through the word of the Living God. every human is born of the flesh of adam, He is the father of the flesh and blood of man. all of us eventually down the line originated from adams seed, after He fell from Gods image.

Humans can only be born of God through the Word of Jesus Christ. Moses doesnt offer it, no old prophet offers it, nor any apostle offers new birth. Christ ians <<<< are of Christ and His things, born of the will of God

john 1:9-13 "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he POWER TO BECOME the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."


without new birth in the spirit, we have nothing. and new birth comes from Jesus alone, thats why His Word is so important

john 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is BORN OF the Spirit is spirit.<< what Jesus told nicodemus when telling Him he must be born again.

john 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, they are spirit, and they are life."


if someone is practicing withcraft and sayoing they are christian, they are in terrible shape according to Gods Word. just saying im christian doesnt make a person a christian, its Jesus way or no way.

 

[Desertsrose]

Actually we are the body of Christ here on the earth. We are one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6:17. He works in us both to do His will and to do of His good pleasure. We are transformed by the Holy Spirit as our minds are renewed to the truths of Christ.

Paul mentions that we are in Christ over 140 x times.

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Psalm 37 says to "Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart." It is His desires being birthed in us.

It's all in the awareness of our union with Christ as one spirit in our inner man of the heart - the new creation. This is walking by the spirit.

We will continue to grow in our understanding of the Lord and the truth that He is in us and we are in Him.

Jesus said "Without Me - you can do nothing." and yet - through Him we can do all things. We have the fruit of His spirit manifesting in us because we are one with Him.

Yes, we're hidden with Christ in God. Yes without Him we can do nothing. Yes, He created us, yes we're nothing without Him. Yes, He gets all the glory. It's His righteousness we walk in. It's His fruit we bear.

So what does this all look like? Obviously we are here on earth and God our Father is in heaven and so is Jesus, He's at the right hand of God.

The one who lives within us is the Holy Spirit. He leads us and guides us into all truth. He gifts us as He wills, the fruit we produce is His fruit.

He speaks not of His own....

John 16:13-15 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

This is how Jesus lives in us. When Paul said he was crucified with Christ, he's talking about his old man, the old Phariseeic Saul. He's dead and he's now a new creation in Christ. So his old self is dead, but his new self is living which is where Christ now dwells spiritually through the power of the Holy Spirit. So while Paul lives the new life in Christ he talks about living this new life by faith in the Son of God who loves him and gave His life for him.

I'll emphasize the part you didn't. Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

 

[PeterJens]

Jesus talking about the sheep are "descriptions" of what Christians do because they are one with Christ. They don't do these things to be saved in the end. It's a description of the life of Christ manifesting in them in some form.

The goats are unbelievers in Christ.

Good works does not in any form or shape save someone. For true Christians they are simply a by-product of the life of Christ in us.

There are thousands of good moral living - good deeds doing - people in many religions in the world and none of them turn into a sheep because of the good works they do. We become a sheep by believing Christ.

Get this backwards and we end up creating a works-based - works-righteousness religion that tries to mimic the life of Christ.

For true Christians they are simply a by-product of the life of Christ in us.

This makes us sound like a factory production line.
Some people think God turns dogs, pigs and goats into sheep.

Nope. People are what they are. God calls His sheep and His sheep hear him.
I think the reality is we do not understand existance or the Lord very well.

We think we choose so much but our choice is very small when compared to
the Lords ways.

But certain groups cannot stand the idea sheep are sheep and some are goats
no matter what happens. But look at the world. Goats are born goats, and sheep
are born sheep. Do we know what is what and how it all works out? Only God
does but it appears the interplay between what can be and what is is always in
the hands of the King.

 

[followjesus]

First of all, yes I CAN say with 100% certainty that I haven't denied any truths in this thread. Furthermore, Peter did NOT "scratch his head", he said "Lord I would never deny YOU".. MY doctrine is the bible. And NOWHERE in the bible does it say that we are saved by works, or that our works keep our salvation, OR that we must get daily salvation in the form of a "cookie" as you call it.. THAT is what the baloney spaghetti is.

Your works will NOT save you, Jim. Nor will they guarantee your way into heaven.

i havent read all the comments here but i havent seen you deny anything true. i think its Just the differences in wording that often creates the perception that someone is denying something.