Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Seariously i agree that we can slip up... But thats not hardly a sin is it lets be honest... (reality check.)
Now if i was saying my future sins was forgiven and all i did all day was swear like a foul mouthed impatient person who doesnt know his left from his right... would you say im looney ?
Now if i was saying my future sins was forgiven and all i did all day was swear like a foul mouthed impatient person who doesnt know his left from his right... would you say im looney ?
Last edited:
A
All this to say what Peter?
You seek to live a holy life and you feel like folks are attacking YOU because they do NOT seek to live holy lives?
let me break it down for you.
Folks don't like how you make strawmen and paste their face on them and pretend that they believe something they don't.
Just like you don't like it when they so it to you....yet in your very next post you make a "let's tell the murderer it's okay to murder his family, fake strawmen"
This (your favorit hobby of making strawmen and burnning them) is why folks just tune you out some days.
You seek to live a holy life and you feel like folks are attacking YOU because they do NOT seek to live holy lives?
let me break it down for you.
Folks don't like how you make strawmen and paste their face on them and pretend that they believe something they don't.
Just like you don't like it when they so it to you....yet in your very next post you make a "let's tell the murderer it's okay to murder his family, fake strawmen"
This (your favorit hobby of making strawmen and burnning them) is why folks just tune you out some days.
I have not named anyone nor would I.
I am making a simple point that applies to me as much as anyone
If you do not hear Christ calling us to hunger and thirst for righteousness, then I have
to ask, have you read the sermon on the mount? Do you know what it means?
Now this is God speaking, not me. So your defence is to say I am personalising it,
and making it about people here. This is the response of sinner to God and His word.
When God speaks, it is like the speaker is talking just to them about their situation.
The question always is, are you going to do something about it?
You can attack the speaker, ie reject Gods word, or ask the Lord to help you resolve
the problem.
Non Ariel, if you agreed with me, God is calling us to hunger and thirst for righteousness,
why are you raising any questions and not just saying amen, brother, let us walk on.
It is really this simple. The heart is wicked and deceitfull above all things. It will always
turn us against messages that challenge us to change and walk in Gods ways and expose
sin and failure which it desires to keep hidden. I know this in myself and used to seek out
people who could help me grow and show me issues I needed to know about.
So I can say nothing else. God bless you and Praise the Lord for His word.
Let us honour our King, and desire to walk deeper and more fully in His ways, Amen.
I am making a simple point that applies to me as much as anyone
If you do not hear Christ calling us to hunger and thirst for righteousness, then I have
to ask, have you read the sermon on the mount? Do you know what it means?
Now this is God speaking, not me. So your defence is to say I am personalising it,
and making it about people here. This is the response of sinner to God and His word.
When God speaks, it is like the speaker is talking just to them about their situation.
The question always is, are you going to do something about it?
You can attack the speaker, ie reject Gods word, or ask the Lord to help you resolve
the problem.
Non Ariel, if you agreed with me, God is calling us to hunger and thirst for righteousness,
why are you raising any questions and not just saying amen, brother, let us walk on.
It is really this simple. The heart is wicked and deceitfull above all things. It will always
turn us against messages that challenge us to change and walk in Gods ways and expose
sin and failure which it desires to keep hidden. I know this in myself and used to seek out
people who could help me grow and show me issues I needed to know about.
So I can say nothing else. God bless you and Praise the Lord for His word.
Let us honour our King, and desire to walk deeper and more fully in His ways, Amen.
Blue. Imagine if I am a litter bug. I say of yes I litter, it is terrible, just cannot help myself.
I am walking down the road, each a sweety, and I just have to dump the wrapper in the street.
Yes I know it is wrong and I should not do it, it just slips out on to the street, I am so wrong,
hahahaha.
Now apart from taking no responsibility for ones own actions, doing something that mitigates
or stops the behaviour, there is nothing here that actually shows repentance.
Repentance is saying the behaviour is abhorant, disgusting, revolting, something one does not
want to be associated with ever again, horses could not dray one back there. It is actions that
bring shame and sorrow, a broken heart, a time of great sadness and regret. That is repentance.
And sin is something that is destructive, intended, damaging, selfish, destroys something someone
else values. It is not a passing thought, or a desire to do something or go somewhere and you change
your mind. There are real consequences that are evil that come from the action.
So much of what people call sin, is just a way of excusing sin by saying it is so over whelming, there
is nothing they can do, it is just who they are, their weakness and limits. It is like a moth to a flame,
to two are going to meet, slavery and addiction, bang.
Odd Christ, Paul, Peter and the rest do not take about sin like this, instead the opposite.
It is something they are now free from and live in the world of love and acceptance in Christ.
Let me list some of the issues people have. Swearing. How you deal with shock and frustrations.
Anger. How you deal with evil and negligence of others. Stealing. How you trust God and look
for ways in love to resolve the issues you have got. These are all resolvable issues, that people
face everyday. In Christ we have the victory. Are you willing to take it?
I am walking down the road, each a sweety, and I just have to dump the wrapper in the street.
Yes I know it is wrong and I should not do it, it just slips out on to the street, I am so wrong,
hahahaha.
Now apart from taking no responsibility for ones own actions, doing something that mitigates
or stops the behaviour, there is nothing here that actually shows repentance.
Repentance is saying the behaviour is abhorant, disgusting, revolting, something one does not
want to be associated with ever again, horses could not dray one back there. It is actions that
bring shame and sorrow, a broken heart, a time of great sadness and regret. That is repentance.
And sin is something that is destructive, intended, damaging, selfish, destroys something someone
else values. It is not a passing thought, or a desire to do something or go somewhere and you change
your mind. There are real consequences that are evil that come from the action.
So much of what people call sin, is just a way of excusing sin by saying it is so over whelming, there
is nothing they can do, it is just who they are, their weakness and limits. It is like a moth to a flame,
to two are going to meet, slavery and addiction, bang.
Odd Christ, Paul, Peter and the rest do not take about sin like this, instead the opposite.
It is something they are now free from and live in the world of love and acceptance in Christ.
Let me list some of the issues people have. Swearing. How you deal with shock and frustrations.
Anger. How you deal with evil and negligence of others. Stealing. How you trust God and look
for ways in love to resolve the issues you have got. These are all resolvable issues, that people
face everyday. In Christ we have the victory. Are you willing to take it?
W
What do you perceive grace to be? ....and accept Jesus is found anywhere in the text... however receive the ingrafted word and obey Jesus is..Therefore receiving Jesus is biblical, of which means obedience from the heart out of sincerity, the 4th condition of the heart found in the parable of the sower...Therefore its God that finds us acceptable,ie (the worthy) not the other way around..seems you have some confusion of words, hope this helps, be blessed and dig deep building your house on the Rock of truth, the world is flooded to the mountain tops with lies out of the mouth of the dragon and his false prophets..
W
just looking for clarification, in that their are many confused doctrines floating around in these last days...then they say everyone somehow messes up, I hope they mean sins of ignorance ,still growing in virtuous wisdom, mistakes because none are perfect in knowledge and completely free from ignorance, and not the rebellious vile sins of the flesh that Paul said would disqualify one from the kingdom...
W
true, and unbelief is biblicaly defined as willful rebellion against the word of God...Paul warns of this in 1 Cor 10. and uses the disobedient Hebrews in Exodus/Numbers/Deut. as an example who died because of unbelief...They certainly believed there was a God, even the devils believe from that respect, but they obeyed not and died in the wilderness..
Last edited by a moderator:
W
Greetings Fran
When Paul was speaking none righteosu he open his declaration with "it is written"
Romans 3
There is none good not one)? What is Paul referencing from the OT?
Every single PASSAGE Paul was quoting from in the old testament speaking of the wicked who were CONTRASTED against the righteous..
Romans 3
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. 5 But if our unrighteousness (the Jews as a nation, Isaiah 64) commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? 8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. 9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; (the Jewish nation and the Gentile nations, not individuals per say) An example of this is found in Isaiah 64. Whereas the righteous prophet Isaiah was speaking to a wicked and perverse nation, Israel. In that all of her righteousness was as filthy rags fading away in their iniquities).
10 As it is written, (Paul is drawing from the OT) There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
In examining Paul's declarations to the Romans in chapter 3, let's use two OT examples, Joseph and Hanna, and see if their works are being referenced by Paul. Or could it be that Paul is speaking about other kinds of people? Possibly the wicked and not the righteous? Joseph and Hanna are but two of the many righteous men/women in the OT, I contend that Paul is not speaking of the righteous in verses 10-18 in Romans 3. But rather Paul is referencing the wicked in Psalms 14, 53, 5, 140, 10, 36 and Proverbs 1-16, 16-8, and Isaiah 59-7,8
Psalms 14-1, the wicked who say there is no God. Psalms 53-1 the wicked who are corrupt and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. None of the wicked do good. Not in any of these verses in which Paul quotes from is he referring to the righteous. Like all chapters, and in both of these occasions, the righteous are always separated from the wicked. Would these OT quotes be speaking about the likes of Joseph, or Hanna etc? Absolutely not! These two Psalms are speaking about the fools who believe not God and the wicked that obey not God. If both Psalms are examined carefully we can find the wicked spoken of in contrast to the righteous. So, in drawing from these two Psalms, Paul is most defiantly speaking of the unrighteous, not the righteous. Therefore types like Joseph and Hanna cannot be who Paul is referencing when he says "There is none righteous, no, not one".
Romans 3- 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Psalm 53-3, 5-9, 140-3 in NONE of the quotes by Paul is David speaking of the righteous. But rather the wicked, when they are conceived of Satan, that go astray, venturing out from his influential womb (Mystery Babylon, his church), doing his bidding and speaking his lies, (when he speaks a lie he speaketh of "his own" John 8-44).Does this sound like Joseph and Hanna? Nay, may God forbid such slanders upon the righteous and worthy! They use this false teaching to promote the Luther/Calvin lie of total depravity. I ask: Can we place Joseph and Hanna in this same category too? No!!!
but two of the many righteous men/women in the OT, I contend that Paul is not speaking of the righteous in verses 10-18 in Romans 3. But rather Paul is referencing the wicked in Psalms 14, 53, 5, 140, 10, 36 and Proverbs 1-16, 16-8, and Isaiah 59-7,8
Psalms 14-1, the wicked who say there is no God. Psalms 53-1 the wicked who are corrupt and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. None of the wicked do good. Not in any of these verses in which Paul quotes from is he referring to the righteous. Like all chapters, and in both of these occasions, the righteous are always separated from the wicked. Would these OT quotes be speaking about the likes of Joseph, or Hanna etc? Absolutely not! These two Psalms are speaking about the fools who believe not God and the wicked that obey not God. If both Psalms are examined carefully we can find the wicked spoken of in contrast to the righteous. So, in drawing from these two Psalms, Paul is most defiantly speaking of the unrighteous, not the righteous. Therefore types like Joseph and Hanna cannot be who Paul is referencing when he says "There is none righteous, no, not one".
Romans 3- 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Psalm 53-3, 5-9, 140-3 in NONE of the quotes by Paul is David speaking of the righteous. But rather the wicked, when they are conceived of Satan, that go astray, venturing out from his influential womb (Mystery Babylon, his church), doing his bidding and speaking his lies, (when he speaks a lie he speaketh of "his own" John 8-44).Does this sound like Joseph and Hanna? Nay, may God forbid such slanders upon the righteous and worthy! They use this false teaching to promote the Luther/Calvin lie of total depravity. I ask: Can we place Joseph and Hanna in this same category too? No!!!
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Psalm 10-7 In this chapter it speaks of the wicked in their pride that persecute the righteous with curses of bitterness out of their mouths of which the apostle James warns against in chapter 3. Do we ever find Joseph and Hanna speaking such things? No!
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Here Paul is drawing in generalities from Proverbs 1-16, 16-8, and Isaiah 59-7,8. In all three chapters it is speaking of a heart that devises evil schemes and the wicked deeds that they madly scurry after. Their feet rush into battle. This sounds more like the wicked deeds of King Saul, and not Joseph and Hanna.
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Psalm 36-1 David has a message from God in his heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked because there is no fear of God before their eyes. Did Joseph and Hanna have the fear of the Lord? Yes!!!
When Paul was speaking none righteosu he open his declaration with "it is written"
Romans 3
There is none good not one)? What is Paul referencing from the OT?
Every single PASSAGE Paul was quoting from in the old testament speaking of the wicked who were CONTRASTED against the righteous..
Romans 3
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. 5 But if our unrighteousness (the Jews as a nation, Isaiah 64) commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? 8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. 9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; (the Jewish nation and the Gentile nations, not individuals per say) An example of this is found in Isaiah 64. Whereas the righteous prophet Isaiah was speaking to a wicked and perverse nation, Israel. In that all of her righteousness was as filthy rags fading away in their iniquities).
10 As it is written, (Paul is drawing from the OT) There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
In examining Paul's declarations to the Romans in chapter 3, let's use two OT examples, Joseph and Hanna, and see if their works are being referenced by Paul. Or could it be that Paul is speaking about other kinds of people? Possibly the wicked and not the righteous? Joseph and Hanna are but two of the many righteous men/women in the OT, I contend that Paul is not speaking of the righteous in verses 10-18 in Romans 3. But rather Paul is referencing the wicked in Psalms 14, 53, 5, 140, 10, 36 and Proverbs 1-16, 16-8, and Isaiah 59-7,8
Psalms 14-1, the wicked who say there is no God. Psalms 53-1 the wicked who are corrupt and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. None of the wicked do good. Not in any of these verses in which Paul quotes from is he referring to the righteous. Like all chapters, and in both of these occasions, the righteous are always separated from the wicked. Would these OT quotes be speaking about the likes of Joseph, or Hanna etc? Absolutely not! These two Psalms are speaking about the fools who believe not God and the wicked that obey not God. If both Psalms are examined carefully we can find the wicked spoken of in contrast to the righteous. So, in drawing from these two Psalms, Paul is most defiantly speaking of the unrighteous, not the righteous. Therefore types like Joseph and Hanna cannot be who Paul is referencing when he says "There is none righteous, no, not one".
Romans 3- 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Psalm 53-3, 5-9, 140-3 in NONE of the quotes by Paul is David speaking of the righteous. But rather the wicked, when they are conceived of Satan, that go astray, venturing out from his influential womb (Mystery Babylon, his church), doing his bidding and speaking his lies, (when he speaks a lie he speaketh of "his own" John 8-44).Does this sound like Joseph and Hanna? Nay, may God forbid such slanders upon the righteous and worthy! They use this false teaching to promote the Luther/Calvin lie of total depravity. I ask: Can we place Joseph and Hanna in this same category too? No!!!
but two of the many righteous men/women in the OT, I contend that Paul is not speaking of the righteous in verses 10-18 in Romans 3. But rather Paul is referencing the wicked in Psalms 14, 53, 5, 140, 10, 36 and Proverbs 1-16, 16-8, and Isaiah 59-7,8
Psalms 14-1, the wicked who say there is no God. Psalms 53-1 the wicked who are corrupt and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. None of the wicked do good. Not in any of these verses in which Paul quotes from is he referring to the righteous. Like all chapters, and in both of these occasions, the righteous are always separated from the wicked. Would these OT quotes be speaking about the likes of Joseph, or Hanna etc? Absolutely not! These two Psalms are speaking about the fools who believe not God and the wicked that obey not God. If both Psalms are examined carefully we can find the wicked spoken of in contrast to the righteous. So, in drawing from these two Psalms, Paul is most defiantly speaking of the unrighteous, not the righteous. Therefore types like Joseph and Hanna cannot be who Paul is referencing when he says "There is none righteous, no, not one".
Romans 3- 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Psalm 53-3, 5-9, 140-3 in NONE of the quotes by Paul is David speaking of the righteous. But rather the wicked, when they are conceived of Satan, that go astray, venturing out from his influential womb (Mystery Babylon, his church), doing his bidding and speaking his lies, (when he speaks a lie he speaketh of "his own" John 8-44).Does this sound like Joseph and Hanna? Nay, may God forbid such slanders upon the righteous and worthy! They use this false teaching to promote the Luther/Calvin lie of total depravity. I ask: Can we place Joseph and Hanna in this same category too? No!!!
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Psalm 10-7 In this chapter it speaks of the wicked in their pride that persecute the righteous with curses of bitterness out of their mouths of which the apostle James warns against in chapter 3. Do we ever find Joseph and Hanna speaking such things? No!
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Here Paul is drawing in generalities from Proverbs 1-16, 16-8, and Isaiah 59-7,8. In all three chapters it is speaking of a heart that devises evil schemes and the wicked deeds that they madly scurry after. Their feet rush into battle. This sounds more like the wicked deeds of King Saul, and not Joseph and Hanna.
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Psalm 36-1 David has a message from God in his heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked because there is no fear of God before their eyes. Did Joseph and Hanna have the fear of the Lord? Yes!!!