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Thread: Not By Works

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by slave View Post
    Tell me: "What do you say is the difference between a servant and a son? Wouldn't that be qualitative, as to what the answer would be? For instance; God calls satan a father (of lies), and our master (the payment for Adams sins; Original Sin dominance), at the outset of our lives. Making us a servant and a son. God on the other hand, sent His Son Jesus Christ enabling us, thru our belief and His sacrificial death on a Cross, enabling us to have Our rightful Father back, and requiring us to be His servant. So, in satan we are son and father of a complete different premise, while in Christ Our heavenly Father is the only Master Father we chose, and we are sons and daughters on the premise of family. But wherein lays your distinction to the (son versus servant) as to your point? I am not clear is all....

    I am familiar with the Scriptures but what is your point?
    romans 1:1 "Paul, a SERVANT OF Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,"

    james 1:1 "James, a SERVANT OF God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, "

    2 peter 1:1 "Simon Peter, A SERVANT and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:"

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    to say you are a slave to God sounds like you resent God.. He made us to share in his creation and glory.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    There is no shame in being a servant.

    Jesus washed His disciples feet...the lowest task done by a slave in most households.

    To not understand the need for servanthood is to say you are better than Jesus.,,
    Last edited by Ariel82; May 24th, 2017 at 11:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    Our salvation is and always be in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. What He has already done in His work on the cross and resurrection.

    Brethren - we are not redeemed until our next failure. The blood of the Lord Jesus Christ speaks of better things.

    We have eternal redemption
    because of what Christ has already done and the fact that we are one spirit with Him. In Him we have eternal redemption through His blood - not by what we do or don't do.

    Hebrews 9:12 (NASB)
    12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.


    Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
    7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

    Colossians 1:14 (KJV)
    14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

    We have = present tense - present tense is always present tense. When tomorrow comes - it will be present tense then too.

    Does this make us want to go out and sin all we want? No, a thousand times No! Of course not - why?

    Because "knowing this truth" releases the grace of God in our lives to operate to produce His life in and through us. Jesus said "You shall know the truth and that truth shall make you free."

    It's time to "repent and believe the gospel" like Jesus said in Mark 1:15 After all it is not called the "good news" for no reason.

    We have a great and wondrous salvation but it is all in Christ and what He has already done. We receive this all by grace through faith. As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him in like manner.
    Jesus said "You shall know the truth and that truth shall make you free."<<< one verse theology again with the explaination parting completely from the word in context.


    john 8:31-32 "
    Then said Jesus to those Jews which BELIEVED ON HIM, IF YE CONTINUE IN MY WORD, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.<<


    free from what?

    v33-34 "
    They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of SIN."

    why is the context of things and what Jesus actually said not as valuable as our own explainations ? alot seem to do that one verse and then explain why thier own view of salvation is more than whats just plainly there. that will always lead to a bad place



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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by followjesus View Post
    romans 1:1 "Paul, a SERVANT OF Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,"

    james 1:1 "James, a SERVANT OF God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, "

    2 peter 1:1 "Simon Peter, A SERVANT and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:"

    I know what a servant is, and I know what a son is....I also read Scripture that reads many times that we, as His Children are "Slaves to Righteousness", and I see nothing but the love in it. Where I see others here struggling with it.

    I'm a bit unclear on your point here "followJesus" giving my post as your lead-in. Those are wonderful Scriptures I definitely give an AMEN to those verses!
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    A servant has no inheritance,where as the son inherits all that is his father's. we serve one another
    Last edited by Gabriel2020; May 24th, 2017 at 11:13 PM.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    There is no shame in being a servant.

    Jesus washed His disciples feet...the lowest task done by a slave in most households.

    To not understand the need for servanthood is to say you are better than Jesus.,,
    amen its the glory of Jesus who was the servant of God and son of God isaiah 53. if no one served God, we never would have had the gospel reach us, if we refuse to serve Our King in response to what He has done for us, we need to re evaluate our own Hearts.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel2020 View Post
    to say you are a slave to God sounds like you resent God.. He made us to share in his creation and glory.

    Well, let His Word, and His Spirit help change your mind about that, but as I mentioned in my post, I get that experience myself. It took me awhile for God to show me His point too.I will pray He opens up your eyes to see it as Scripture paints it. For us we sometimes must take down the old paintings before we can see the beauty in the new ones He gives. I get it.

    Remember I am not saying that I resent God. I love God with all of my heart. And God is still planning on sharing His glory with especially those who are slaves to His righteousness. Don't let satan rattle your thoughts in that.
    Last edited by slave; May 24th, 2017 at 11:16 PM.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by slave View Post
    I know what a servant is, and I know what a son is....I also read Scripture that reads many times that we, as His Children are "Slaves to Righteousness", and I see nothing but the love in it. Where I see others here struggling with it.

    I'm a bit unclear on your point here "followJesus" giving my post as your lead-in. Those are wonderful Scriptures I definitely give an AMEN to those verses!
    were paul, james, Peter children of God? and do they also say they are servants ? the point is that children do serve thier Parents, and Jesus served us, and also told us to serve one another......which is How we serve God. children are happy to be hinored with the title of servant. is i guess my point were both, Children who serve God
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel2020 View Post
    A servant has no inheritance,where as the son inherits all that is his father's. we serve one another
    john 13:13-17 "So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you? 13Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. 14If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. 15For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.16Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. 17If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them."

    john 15:14-17 "Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17These things I command you, that ye love one another."

    children serve from a right Heart in response to thier Fathers Love, slaves are oppressed by thier master.

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by followjesus View Post
    were paul, james, Peter children of God? and do they also say they are servants ? the point is that children do serve thier Parents, and Jesus served us, and also told us to serve one another......which is How we serve God. children are happy to be hinored with the title of servant. is i guess my point were both, Children who serve God
    ~Where do I not agree with that in full force?~I have only been supporting that conclusion in every word I am saying.So are you just saying it for the sake of the room in support? If not you will need to point out where in my words I counter that opinion, which is biblical. We are Children, and we are servants. We are not one over the other! They compliment each other.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by followjesus View Post
    john 13:13-17 "So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you? 13Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. 14If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. 15For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.16Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. 17If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them."

    john 15:14-17 "Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17These things I command you, that ye love one another."

    children serve from a right Heart in response to thier Fathers Love, slaves are oppressed by thier master.
    Slave: a person who is the legal property of another. We were bought at a price. You need to see that unless we die utterly ( to our (Volitional) willful death to the right to ourselves), our life will always have an ebb and flow in sin and in understanding God. This is not God's will; despite His appropriatenesses in the process of finishing His Workmanship in us.

    I would ask you to pray about this. Let God give you His insight into His Word in it's language. I am evidence of not being oppressed by my Master, for I know the Character of My Lord and God. But I am not naive about the character of he who opposes God either. So, for me and my House I will remain a slave to righteousness. Now think about it you are asking me not to say; I am so in love with God I will die to the right to myself, and become fully dependent on God hence as fact, becoming a slave (Fully owned and obligated to receive my progress in the way, and truth, and the life of my New Creation; being that of my slavery to a right relationship to God via remaining in Christ). These are simply the facts. This is Scriptural. And it makes complete sense to my spirit. There is no tyranny here there is only life under His will.

    "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full." (John 10:10). I'm a slave to the relationship to the latter and not the former. My heart is plenty right!
    Romans 8:17New International Version (NIV)

    17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

    We must give Him our heart and mind and body we must give Him our all, that is simply called His ownership, our reasonable service, ....I thank God for that, for the crown of life is given to those who overcome with Him.

    There are many things we agree on, but the devil is in the details huh?! I am trying to honor Him in exposes those details.


    Last edited by slave; May 24th, 2017 at 11:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Rethink the term slave. It holds a qualitative meaning.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    No sir, it don't. A slave is one that is taken by force to do service,and a servant is one who offers up himself to do service. .
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    I CAN RIGHTFULLY JUDGE ONE'S doctrine
    These are the ones that come to mind.

    Just now noticed that word "assured" in this scripture below...

    2 Timothy 3:13-17: But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work"

    Continues with...

    2 Timothy 4:1-5: "I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry"
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    "If we want to study the word of God, we need to have an open mind to allow the Holy Spirit to teach us. A closed mind lets in no light. If the Spirit illuminates a scripture, we need to be willing to display a teachable spirit. When we align ourselves with any particular camp we are no longer teachable. That is elementary"



    John 14:27: "Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid"


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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by limey410 View Post
    Idolaters of security, that is rich dude!

    You realize that you are speaking of the God that sacrificed it all so that we may have life and life everlasting.

    Do you understand the words, Love, Grace, Mercy, Forgiveness, Trust, Eternity?

    None of those words are formed on shaky ground.

    None of the actions that these words describe were done lightly.

    Nothing of God is done without purpose.

    None of the promises that were made that these words describe are revocable, yet you just call it a farce, or coin a stupid phrase such as idolaters of security or idolatry of belief.

    Genesis 15:6, Romans 4:3 and Galatians 3:6 John 6:29, John 12:44, John 11:25, Mark 9:23 are these verses part of this doctrine of the idolatry of belief?
    His foolish statement proves how delusional he is and in fantasy land....Idolaters of security...what an ignorant thing to say or accuse of....
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    Me angry?

    I trust people who trust in Christ know Him and follow His word.

    What surprises me is when I am told I must not be a believer if I do not hold
    one version of security in Christ. This is a version of idolatry.

    If you do not have the idol, you are not saved. It is this that did not add up when
    I first came across this group and in later conversations. But now it makes perfect
    sense. Without their idol their faith becomes meaningless.

    Just read their words. Without "idol" I would be lost, no confidence, no foundation,
    always would be working to compensate for my insecurity, everything flows from this idol.

    Now I worship Jesus and His love expressed through the cross. He is my King and
    Lord the one who brought me forgiveness of my sins and the example I am to follow.

    So when Christ is the one who I worship, that is the true duty of me a child of the
    Kingdom of heaven. In Him is my security, knowing the love that dwells in His heart
    and was expressed through the cross is my salvation.

    I believe Jesus and who He is.

    Now however you spin this it is not the version people are projecting on to me, so I
    just wonder why they need to invent such stories? Maybe it makes them happy, or
    justifies their own position. My observation are based only on their words and expressions
    of faith and trust. I am not projecting anything, I am listening.
    Listen cake taker...the security of the believer is not an idol or idolatry...placing emphasis upon yourself and your works for salvation is idolatry to the max....true satanism to be exact.....Paul was clear....the false gospel you peddle is not of God, by God and or something the Holy Spirit would lead someone to speak.....the two statements mase by you prove that you do not know Jesus biblically...to say his imputed righteousness is a neat little trick that does not work is exactly something Satan would say.....and to say faith into Jesus is not enough is another cake taking statement that is also false and satanic......You really should put down the pseudo anglo-catholicised doctrine and acutally trust Jesus.....serious!

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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    His foolish statement proves how delusional he is and in fantasy land....Idolaters of security...what an ignorant thing to say or accuse of....
    Hi dc. Idolatry replaces God with something. Some believe security is everything. It is not in scripture,
    the opposite is true. God is unbelievably dangerous. People have been arrogant before Him and died.

    Jesus warns of arrogance and his provision of fruitfulness. He guarantees fruit if you abide, if you
    obey and put it into practice. Jesus warns us the way is easy but few find it. Odd warning.

    But here we are people who believe in Christ being disowned because they do not have security in the
    right way. So evil is this lack of security they are going to hell. So heavy stuff. And it is this security it
    claimed washes them of sin, even as they sin. And sin is so endemic, so embedded in life, every second
    we are sinning.

    This is an idolatrous belief, which has distorted everything, changed the language, created condemning
    arrogant people who are hard hearted, with no sorrow, or fear, but want to throw people out of fellowships
    for daring to question the idol. And teachers can teach blasphemy, but are ok because they have security.

    Unrepentant believers are being created as if they know Jesus, pushing worldly lusts and success because
    they are secure, though continually condemned by their conscience, they are told it is satan and they must
    know security.

    I am secure in Christ because I know He loves me because of the cross. And when convicted of sin, I repent.
    in love and truth I am taught to obey and follow with a humble and repentant heart considering others better
    than myself. It is the cross which centers my soul and shows me the way. And before the Lord I bow the knee
    always the redeemed sinner before my glorious Lord and Saviour. Amen

    I call people to place their security in the cross and the love it represents and work through every sin in detail,
    so they have a pure righteous walk empowered by the Holy Spirit, Amen.
    Last edited by PeterJens; May 25th, 2017 at 04:31 AM.
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Katy-follower View Post
    These are the ones that come to mind.

    Just now noticed that word "assured" in this scripture below...

    2 Timothy 3:13-17: But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work"

    Continues with...

    2 Timothy 4:1-5: "I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry"
    I am so glad I am not in a religion that has the same type of hope that one has when they buy a lottery ticket....if salvation could be lost...all would burn in hell...The bible states clearly that there is not one just man upon the earth that does good and sins not......and seeing how one sin = death.....and everyone has sin.....you see...their false logic and doctrine makes no sense and would have all lost......I wish I could really call it what it is without being banned
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    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
    There is no shame in being a servant.

    Jesus washed His disciples feet...the lowest task done by a slave in most households.

    To not understand the need for servanthood is to say you are better than Jesus.,,
    A servant "doulos" that has been set free from sin and the bondage of sin to serve freely and of our own volition.
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