Not By Works

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Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
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Paul expresses concern about the defection of the Galatians to a legalism kind of life. They've robbed themselves of the fullness of blessing and also have robbed the world of a correct view of the doctrine of salvation. Even though they are saved they are living in nonconformity to the very doctrine by which they were saved. The unsaved world might look on and conclude that salvation comes by legalism. Very misleading.


Galatians 2:20-21: I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”



Galatians 3:1-9: O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.



Galatians 3:13-18: Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise"
 
Dec 12, 2013
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On a side note...Good evening friends from Port Douglas in Queensland, Australia....had an awesome day snorkling on the Great Barrier Reef....nice boat ride about 25 miles out to sea...good lunch on this man made island and two rounds of snorkling and a boat ride with a glass bottom. Now back to land and heading out for a killa sea food dinner on a resturant on the beach...thousands of parrots and cockatoos making racket in the palm trees...nice temp and breeze.....539 pm Thursday.....peace my friends...keep pluggin the truth to offset the ones who push false gospels and a false working for pseudo salvation....!
 
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I am so glad I am not in a religion that has the same type of hope that one has when they buy a lottery ticket....if salvation could be lost...all would burn in hell...The bible states clearly that there is not one just man upon the earth that does good and sins not......and seeing how one sin = death.....and everyone has sin.....you see...their false logic and doctrine makes no sense and would have all lost......I wish I could really call it what it is without being banned
I read the above with great sorrow. The cross is the eternal statement of Gods love which washes us
clean, changes us forever, in which we have freedom. And so we follow Christ knowing in Him our salvation
is secure, because daily our hearts rise in praise to His throne of grace. He is the loving righteous King who
will bring justice to earth at His coming. Amen, come Lord Jesus come
 
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I read the above with great sorrow. The cross is the eternal statement of Gods love which washes us
clean, changes us forever, in which we have freedom. And so we follow Christ knowing in Him our salvation
is secure, because daily our hearts rise in praise to His throne of grace. He is the loving righteous King who
will bring justice to earth at His coming. Amen, come Lord Jesus come
Sorrow for yourself....you are missing the correct message of Christ and trusting self and implying you never sin...both equal one who has not fully trusted Christ..I KNOW IN WHOM I HAVE BELIEVED AND AM FULLY PERSUADED HE WILL KEEP ME AND FINISH WHAT HE STARTED....
 
Feb 24, 2015
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A sign of idolatry is disowning people not because of unrepentant sin, or even not trusting in Jesus
and the cross, but some insecure idea, through which everything else changes.

In their world the enemy is now believers, and the evil is believing Christs words which were all
sarcastic but no one gets the joke. So the hero's are angry people who want to shout and expose
the terrible deception that is leading people to hell, by brain washing. The sign of the deception is
believing Christ makes us righteous, and love is the walk, with a contrite repentant heart.

So badly do the people walk, even adultery is just satan falsely saying an adulterous affair is evil,
because Jesus has already forgiven them. No sense of the damage such sin creates or how evil
the consequences are, it is just another sinning day...
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Sorrow for yourself....you are missing the correct message of Christ and trusting self and implying you never sin...both equal one who has not fully trusted Christ..I KNOW IN WHOM I HAVE BELIEVED AND AM FULLY PERSUADED HE WILL KEEP ME AND FINISH WHAT HE STARTED....
I have sinned, in the past, but in Christ and His love I trust I will walk righteously.
As followers of Christ and the cross we are changed, transformed, by the renewing
of our minds. So my friend, in all honesty what sin are you commiting now?
I type here thinking in Christ I am complete, a child of the living God, washed clean,
pure and Holy, undefiled. What a King, what a cross, what a gift of forgiveness to a
repentant heart, Glory to Christ,for in Him alone is the forgiveness of sins to everyone
who believes, Amen.

Why have you strayed so far from this? What happened to you?
 
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I have sinned, in the past, but in Christ and His love I trust I will walk righteously.
As followers of Christ and the cross we are changed, transformed, by the renewing
of our minds. So my friend, in all honesty what sin are you commiting now?
I type here thinking in Christ I am complete, a child of the living God, washed clean,
pure and Holy, undefiled. What a King, what a cross, what a gift of forgiveness to a
repentant heart, Glory to Christ,for in Him alone is the forgiveness of sins to everyone
who believes, Amen.

Why have you strayed so far from this? What happened to you?
1st John tells me your deceived and have no truth...no one is 100% sinless....The Pharisees exhibited the same level of self righteousness that u do....tragically I might add...
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
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Well I instantly had assurance the moment I was saved. I knew I had eternal life, that all my sins had been forgiven. This was before I even opened up a bible for the first time. When you're born of the Spirit, you know.

So when I hear someone state that they have no assurance *I conclude* that either (a) they don't actually have the Holy Spirit (because they would know) or (b) they once had this assurance, but in the years since they've been listening too much to teachers and as a result they now have doubts.

But God knew that some would have doubts, which is why the bible is full of scriptures to reassure us...


1 John 5:11-15: And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
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God does not kick us out. (we would have to walk out)





Hi Fran., Have only read a few of these comments but yours causes me to ask some questions for your consideration. As a mom when I had little children and we went for walks out on our country roads I watched my toddler bravely walk on the dirt road and sort of led him away from the little stones that would throw him off balance and cause him to fall. Actually I always had eyes on him and when I got tired of watching him he was carried so I could look at the pretty fields and flowers too.

There is no way I would allow him to walk away from me. He was my responsibility and not able to maneuver in life without me. Even when he screamed and wanted me to let him walk and run down the driveway I ran after him and turned him around. He hollered in protest because he wanted to soooo badly be independent but mom is persistent not allowing any harm to come to him. And those times when he was given free reign to walk on a clear stoneless road a head of me., although he didn't see me and felt like he was FRREEE I was always there.

That is how God is with us. We are His and we are totally incapable of maneuvering in life without Him. If it were not for Jesus., we would fall into a pit. Even if we think we are totally independent walking down roads of life and falling into pits of temporal issues., He is still there. And ultimately even when we walk away He is always there and He has secured a place in heaven for us by His blood. Just like my being a mother secures my son he is mine by blood. Adults grow up and move out but we sheep never grow up and out of our position in Christ.

There just is no way to be smart enough or obedient enough to hold on to His hand the way we would need to to keep our salvation. Just like that toddler walking down the road that is exactly how we are when it comes to living. Jesus had to come and do everything on our behalf. Just like the toddler needs the parent 100% of the time. There is no way he can survive alone.

Before Jesus comes into our lives it's astonishing to me that we survive at all. It's got to be because the Holy Spirit is still on earth keeping all the torrential winds of evil from overcoming the earth. The unsaved people and the earth itself is being kept until the day. But those who die without Jesus go out into eternity without a Savior to go before them. They will face all things without God on their side. I cannot imagine that.

But not so with His redeemed. We are secure and safe in His hand. Even if we don't always "feel" Him., He is always there and always for us. He will never leave us or forsake us no matter what comes. Even our stubborn will as his children. He will also save us from that. Many of us adult Christians have been made the fool by our own lack of understanding or our own stupid stubbornness. I can certainly vouch for that.


 
Feb 24, 2015
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1st John tells me your deceived and have no truth...no one is 100% sinless....The Pharisees exhibited the same level of self righteousness that u do....tragically I might add...
Language is limited. God declares we can be cleansed, made Holy, righteous. He declares our
words defile us, our actions also. The first point of faith is can we be washed clean.

Yes, even our consciences. So first to get here we need a convicted heart. We then need to repent
of the sin we know and let the Lord lead us to show us of sin we do not know.

Now I know this takes time, so like any child we need to know our Father loving and holding us.
I sometimes have to go back to when I was a kid and know in Christs love I am secure, He will
keep me safe. When you go to these lonely places, Christ is there with us, showing us love
and healing the hurt. I know He has done this for me.

The cross is the door to the greatest adventure ever. Where we can travel only the Lord sees,
but it is a place of freedom and love, were we are no longer bound.

I am nothing, Jesus is all. I know many things because I know myself and what the Lord has done.
So my call is just one in His love, we daily need to open our hearts and let Him in, for He only has
good intentions for us.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Well I instantly had assurance the moment I was saved. I knew I had eternal life, that all my sins had been forgiven. This was before I even opened up a bible for the first time. When you're born of the Spirit, you know.

So when I hear someone state that they have no assurance *I conclude* that either (a) they don't actually have the Holy Spirit (because they would know) or (b) they once had this assurance, but in the years since they've been listening too much to teachers and as a result they now have doubts.

But God knew that some would have doubts, which is why the bible is full of scriptures to reassure us...


1 John 5:11-15: And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.
There is a big difference between assurance in Christ, and the idea this can never be betrayed.
Insecurity and doubt often eats away at feeling secure, but this is why the cross is so dramatic.

There can be know doubt God loves us, because only love would drive anyone to die that way at
the hands of evil men unless love needed this, and we need it, everyday, every hour, every minute,
because as children we so easily fear and doubt, but there the Lord is, the cross shining through
in the middle of the darkest places the world has ever made, so I say amen to my Lord, for only
The King could see and know this one symbol could heal us all. Glory, God bless you.
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
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I didn't know that, but there does seem two definitions of justification floating around and it says the Catholic one includes what Protestant distinctly label as sanctification.

I agree there is a mixture of believers and non believers.

Only God really knows who is who and we should all pray and ask for,Him wisdom and words to speak His truth, instead of our own.
Yes, they put works ahead of salvation, therefore mixing the two. Even more than that, they claim salvation can only be found in the (catholic) church, since one is told they must partake in the various sacraments within that church. It's an anathema to claim your sins can be completely and eternally forgiven by God. The idea of assurance is forbidden (I forget where in the Catechism I read that).

They also mix up the very definition of church. They say you must be part of the church in order to be saved, but we know that it's only once you're saved that you become part of the church :) (since believers are actually the church)

Believers do have discernment and some have the gift of discerning the Spirits, so one of the things is they can tell who is saved and who is lost. So God does allow us to see these things through the gifts.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
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No sir, it don't. A slave is one that is taken by force to do service,and a servant is one who offers up himself to do service. .
It is Scripture and a bondservant we must be for our own good not as a shackle but as freedom. Keep in mind too, that Scripture also indicates he was using a human argument to describe it in that passage, for in that day God instructed slaves to honor their Masters at a human level, which we all know is not His ultimate will.No, a slave is not taken by force in the words description in how God is speaking here. It is about ownership, and Mastership. You know God will always give you freedom to choose to whom you serve, otherwise it wouldn't be a love relationship, and everything Jesus did on a Cross was for no purpose. God can always make us robots, but this is not His will, He delights in our union with Him. A slave to righteousness, is a person committed to a oneness with God thru Christ Jesus......so.... In God's time my friend, in God's time, I pray He will show you what this means from a positive side.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Yes, they put works ahead of salvation, therefore mixing the two. Even more than that, they claim salvation can only be found in the (catholic) church, since one is told they must partake in the various sacraments within that church. It's an anathema to claim your sins can be completely and eternally forgiven by God. The idea of assurance is forbidden (I forget where in the Catechism I read that).
The sixth session of the Council of Trent condemned those claiming an assurance of salvation:

It is not to be said to any one boasting a confidence and certainty of the forgiveness of his sins, that his sins are forgiven, or have been forgiven; seeing this vain confidence, totally remote from piety, may exist in heretics and schismatics. ... As no pious man ought to doubt of the mercy of God, the merit of Christ, and the virtue and efficacy of the sacraments, so every one, while he beholds his own weakness and disinclination, may be in fear and dread respecting his own gracious state; seeing that no man can know with a certainty of faith, as to which there can be no lurking error, that he has obtained the grace of God. (Chapter 9)

Whosoever shall say that he holds it absolutely and infallibly certain that he shall have the great gift of perseverance even unto the end, if he has not learned this by special revelation, let him be anathema. (Canon 16) Such people are guilty of the sin of presumption. On the other hand, one should hope in his own salvation, provided he has done good works:

Whosoever shall say that the righteous ought not, for the good works which may have been done in God, to expect and hope for eternal recompense from God through his mercy and the merits of Jesus Christ, if he persevere even to the end in well-doing and in keeping the Divine commandments, let him be anathema. (Canon 26)

I once shared 1 John 5:13 with a Roman Catholic priest - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.. He tried to tell me that the Greek word for "know" in 1 John 5:13 means "uncertain" and you "can't know for sure." :rolleyes:
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
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I once shared 1 John 5:13 with a Roman Catholic priest - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.. He tried to tell me that the Greek word for "know" in 1 John 5:13 means "uncertain" and you "can't know for sure." :rolleyes:
All I ever got from a priest was "baloney" lol :eek:
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Hi Fran., Have only read a few of these comments but yours causes me to ask some questions for your consideration. As a mom when I had little children and we went for walks out on our country roads I watched my toddler bravely walk on the dirt road and sort of led him away from the little stones that would throw him off balance and cause him to fall. Actually I always had eyes on him and when I got tired of watching him he was carried so I could look at the pretty fields and flowers too.

There is no way I would allow him to walk away from me. He was my responsibility and not able to maneuver in life without me. Even when he screamed and wanted me to let him walk and run down the driveway I ran after him and turned him around. He hollered in protest because he wanted to soooo badly be independent but mom is persistent not allowing any harm to come to him. And those times when he was given free reign to walk on a clear stoneless road a head of me., although he didn't see me and felt like he was FRREEE I was always there.

That is how God is with us. We are His and we are totally incapable of maneuvering in life without Him. If it were not for Jesus., we would fall into a pit. Even if we think we are totally independent walking down roads of life and falling into pits of temporal issues., He is still there. And ultimately even when we walk away He is always there and He has secured a place in heaven for us by His blood. Just like my being a mother secures my son he is mine by blood. Adults grow up and move out but we sheep never grow up and out of our position in Christ.

There just is no way to be smart enough or obedient enough to hold on to His hand the way we would need to to keep our salvation. Just like that toddler walking down the road that is exactly how we are when it comes to living. Jesus had to come and do everything on our behalf. Just like the toddler needs the parent 100% of the time. There is no way he can survive alone.

Before Jesus comes into our lives it's astonishing to me that we survive at all. It's got to be because the Holy Spirit is still on earth keeping all the torrential winds of evil from overcoming the earth. The unsaved people and the earth itself is being kept until the day. But those who die without Jesus go out into eternity without a Savior to go before them. They will face all things without God on their side. I cannot imagine that.

But not so with His redeemed. We are secure and safe in His hand. Even if we don't always "feel" Him., He is always there and always for us. He will never leave us or forsake us no matter what comes. Even our stubborn will as his children. He will also save us from that. Many of us adult Christians have been made the fool by our own lack of understanding or our own stupid stubbornness. I can certainly vouch for that.


This is a very good analogy.

I would add that your boy may at some point THINK that he lost his sonship, even though he never really did. That fact is one of my favorite aspects of the Prodical son passage.

He THOUGHT he had lost his sonship and was only planning on asking his father to be a lowly servant of the house. The father thought MUCH differently, and just preceding this passage are the parables of the lost coin and lost sheep. In both cases the owner is not going to rest til he finds them OR, in our case, DRAWS US BACK!

Praise Jesus!
 
Feb 24, 2015
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eternal life - After using this term, life eternal, the real meaning comes out.

In Christ we taste of life eternal

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.
Heb 6:4-6

Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
1 Tim 6:12

We can taste life in Christ which is eternal life, but tasting it does not mean we
ourselves will have this life eternally, it is our hope, our faith and our walk.

Until we arrive at judgement, only then will all things be made plain.
Paul puts it like this

I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself.
My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart.
At that time each will receive their praise from God.
1 Cor 4:3-5

Through the cross we see Christ and listen and follow His word.
If we neither listen to Christs word or follow it, what foundation have we at all in Him?

A faith of presumption with hypocracy seems meaningless, unless you believe the gnostic
dualism, where the real you, the holy pure you dwells in a contaminating body which one
disowns and will be removed at the resurrection. This fits peoples experience and allows
them safety in faith while sinning in life and no problems be raised. except this is just
sinners entering heaven.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
listen NNM, i disagree that all things are possible through christ, and men can,no longer walk even as Job but despite our differences...
i love you ....if you ever have a question ive been very blessed and feel maybe i can share some of what God has shared with me... may God bless you and show you the truth
well ... even though we disagree
and i do believe all things are possible through Jesus,
though possible not required for salvation

i appreciate your ability to seperate immature emotions and mud flinging from your responses bro

God bless YOU and have a great day































Disclaimer: Fictional conversation
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,645
6,276
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eternal life - After using this term, life eternal, the real meaning comes out.

In Christ we taste of life eternal

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.
Heb 6:4-6

Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
1 Tim 6:12

We can taste life in Christ which is eternal life, but tasting it does not mean we
ourselves will have this life eternally, it is our hope, our faith and our walk.

Until we arrive at judgement, only then will all things be made plain.
Paul puts it like this

I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself.
My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart.
At that time each will receive their praise from God.
1 Cor 4:3-5

Through the cross we see Christ and listen and follow His word.
If we neither listen to Christs word or follow it, what foundation have we at all in Him?

A faith of presumption with hypocracy seems meaningless, unless you believe the gnostic
dualism, where the real you, the holy pure you dwells in a contaminating body which one
disowns and will be removed at the resurrection. This fits peoples experience and allows
them safety in faith while sinning in life and no problems be raised. except this is just
sinners entering heaven.
i'll tell you what is meaningless- words from people who think ( wrongly) that they do not sin. folks like this, with this silly attitude and denial of reality, people get so far into themselves, and their ability to not sin, that they start to lie and deceive themselves.

lying is a sin. so, anyone who refuses to admit that they are not sinless and perfect, no one is, but people who refuse to admit this sin by doing so.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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eternal life - After using this term, life eternal, the real meaning comes out.

In Christ we taste of life eternal

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.
Heb 6:4-6
They had tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of its character and quality, yet they still turned away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept the thing that is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when He tasted it, he would not drink it." Do we "taste" into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13).