Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A

Ariel82

Guest
Wrote this on the thread, but it may fit here as well....

The Fruits of the Holy Spirit produce Good works. NOT the other way around.

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

It is not the works that produces fruit, but the fruit that produces good works.
So I think this is what so many get wrong, and backwards.

So what are these fruits?
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
These fruits WILL produce good works.So we all need to examine ourselves, that we are exhibiting these fruits, NOT THE WORKS WE DO.

If you are not exhibiting THAT Spirit-filled list, you are likely exhibiting THIS fleshly list of bad fruit:
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[c]fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[d] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Have a blessed weekend! Love you all.
Amen. We need a reminder of what the fruit of walking with The Holy spirit truly is.

Without this inward change, outward looking "good works" is just religious white washed tombs.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
sirs, what must I do to be saved? - the Philippian jailer to Paul and Silas. believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved- their answer.

as usual, truth proves you wrong. maybe one day you will choose truth, and stop resisting it.
True saving faith is different than just mouthing the words.

True faith reveals a change in heart and mind from darkness to God's light as revealed by the gospel: Jesus died for our sins and rose again.

If you dont understand your need for a savior, you don't have true saving faith.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
sirs, what must I do to be saved? - the Philippian jailer to Paul and Silas. believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved- their answer.

as usual, truth proves you wrong. maybe one day you will choose truth, and stop resisting it.
The thing is with the Philippian jailer he was convicted he needed to be saved, that he was lost
and wanted a solution. Paul had been sharing about faith and repentance in the jail before the
incident had occurred. So the telling of the conviction of sin and need is very obvious.

Why do you always want to make the gospel into something it is not?
The gospel has always been about sinners finding redemption through Christ, the forgiveness
of their sins and learning to walk in righteousness. When will you wake up to this reality and
stop compromising and denying the very bible you have in front of you.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
It would seem you are not "mixing faith" as a work of God(not of or own selves) in what you do hear or see coming from the scriptures but rather walk by sight looking at works you perform as evidence you have the Holy Spirit. We walk by faith having not received the promise that we will receive our new incorruptible bodies. All of the saints died having not received the promise.

We are not the cause as you offered (only because we repent) it’s not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,But is rather because he repented by having mercy towards us. His mercy triumphs over judgment.

What you offered would appear to be backward or upside down like the one group in Hebrews 6, laying again and again the foundation of repentance from dead works, crucifying Christ over and over when you repent. He must do the first work of repenting or there is no mercy

One work of His faith was enough .Its the better thing that accompanies salvation called redemption.

Christ was punished by God for our sin (eternal damnation) and not just long enough for a person sins again. Christ was under the wrath of God for our sin. He was wounded for the “second death”, the most terrible punishment imaginable.The evidence of that is He threw himself to the ground with loud cries while his sweat (to show he was doing the spiritual work of suffering) as if it was drops of blood.(can’t see the spiritual work of pouring out His Spirit)

The chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his punishment we are healed. It punishment was not upon us until we repented again and again every time a person violates His law.
Does God chastens His people?

What is redemption?
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Does God chastens His people?

What is redemption?
He chastens as many as the father gave Him, all those He loves by pardoning the eternal debt of their sin violate one guilty of the whole

Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.


Redemption is to have all your sins forgiven. If he would take one sin to the eternal account who could stand before his throne of Grace, and receive mercy. We fear him because he stood in our place not because we could stand without.



Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O LORD.Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications.If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning.Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous “redemption”.And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities. Psa 130:1

How many sins has he forgiven you., all of them or just some and you must work to finish the work he started?
 
Last edited:
A

Ariel82

Guest
God forgives all sins and His redemption plan includes teaching His kids how to live godly lives.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
So you believe that God reaches out to sinners first and places in them a desire to turn from darkness to light?
Yes as he, who is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases…. as he desires. He commandments men to repent not a sugestion , its turn them towards Him who has no form so they can repent (comfort themselves). No turning of God , no desire to repent of men.He gives us the desire of a new heart its where our treasure is.



The king shall joy in thy strength, O LORD; and in thy salvation how greatly shall he rejoice!Thou hast given him "his heart's desire", and hast not withholden the request of "his lips". Selah.For thou preventest him with the blessings of goodness: thou settest a crown of pure gold on his head Psa 21:1
 
W

willybob

Guest
imputed righteousness - a term miss-understood by many

Some believe God is blinded to the sin of believers by imputed righteousness of Christ.
I think this blindness is the deception people are under.

Because of faith in Christ God does not count these sins against, knowing in time we
will repent and resolve the issues. This is the mercy of God, empowered by Christ blood shed
on the cross. The whole basis of forgiveness is the future resolution through repentance.

The church has always dealt with sin over time. Identification of sinful behaviour, confrontation,
and finally rejection if not resolved.

If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Matt 18:15-17

3 steps -
Personal confrontation
Witnessed confrontation
Confront in the church
Reject if they do not resolve it.

Sin in an obvious needs to be taken seriously.
This is why I wonder at what the brothers are saying is insurmountable sin.
The examples given to date, are neither a problem or insurmountable.

Often people spend too much time condemning themselves rather than positively
praising God and making the most of loving people wherever they find opportunity.
imputed was a leagal term liked by Reformationist scholars and translators because they believed in Martin Luther's magical transfer of virtue myth..translated from the Greek it simply means reckoned on account of duties. Abraham DID the WORKS OF FAITH, and it was reckoned/judged to be righteous works by God...The word reckoned and imputed are interchangeable in Romans 3..I think Tyndale did a better translation concerning this matter whereas I think he only used the word imputed once or twice in his translation..False pundits will always skew the meaning of words to lend credence to mischief while allowing for provisions of carnality..the bible uses the term imputed sin as well..It also doesn't mean that sin is transferable either, its is simply reckoned on account according to the deeds done in the flesh. Sin is reckoned/imputed to those who are workers of iniquity, and righteousness is imputed/reckoned to those who do good, (IF thou doest well, etc. Gen. 4-7).VIRTUE IS NEVER TRANSFERRED anywhere within the text..it is an invention of carnal men seeking salvation while still in there sins therefore resisting the wisdom of 2 Cor. 7-11...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,819
25,996
113
Magenta,if you could embed this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ipwEtvWL_3c

Thanks....Jesus is the only friend I need, but I thank Him for giving me brothers and sisters who actually listen and I can fellowship with.
Certainly! :) Sorry for the delay, Ariel... I am not at home :D

Jesus, Friend of Sinners - Casting Crowns
[video=youtube;ipwEtvWL_3c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipwEtvWL_3c&app=desktop[/video]

And amen! I have been to two different fellowship meetings today :eek:
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
our, hub's and i's, Love for Jesus always seems to shine through what He asks us to do...

1st Commandment and then the second and then....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
Amen. We need a reminder of what the fruit of walking with The Holy spirit truly is.

Without this inward change, outward looking "good works" is just religious white washed tombs.
Exactly what Romans 12:1-2 speaks about...being transformed by the renewing of the mind and changing outwardly because if the inward change....a process of growth and maturity.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
imputed was a leagal term liked by Reformationist scholars and translators because they believed in Martin Luther's magical transfer of virtue myth..translated from the Greek it simply means reckoned on account of duties. Abraham DID the WORKS OF FAITH, and it was reckoned/judged to be righteous works by God...The word reckoned and imputed are interchangeable in Romans 3..I think Tyndale did a better translation concerning this matter whereas I think he only used the word imputed once or twice in his translation..False pundits will always skew the meaning of words to lend credence to mischief while allowing for provisions of carnality..the bible uses the term imputed sin as well..It also doesn't mean that sin is transferable either, its is simply reckoned on account according to the deeds done in the flesh. Sin is reckoned/imputed to those who are workers of iniquity, and righteousness is imputed/reckoned to those who do good, (IF thou doest well, etc. Gen. 4-7).VIRTUE IS NEVER TRANSFERRED anywhere within the text..it is an invention of carnal men seeking salvation while still in there sins therefore resisting the wisdom of 2 Cor. 7-11...
More deceit from spongebob....the bible states nothing of works...it clearly states he BELIEVED God and it was put to his account for rightousness and PAUL concluded a man was justified by faith before God without the deeds of the law and or works...no matter how many times you twist it into a lying false dogma of faith plus works for salvation it will never be true...but rather a lying false gospel that has no power and is double cursed....You align yourself with Cain in Jude as a false teacher that peddles works
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
Yes as he, who is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases…. as he desires. He commandments men to repent not a sugestion , its turn them towards Him who has no form so they can repent (comfort themselves). No turning of God , no desire to repent of men.He gives us the desire of a new heart its where our treasure is.



The king shall joy in thy strength, O LORD; and in thy salvation how greatly shall he rejoice!Thou hast given him "his heart's desire", and hast not withholden the request of "his lips". Selah.For thou preventest him with the blessings of goodness: thou settest a crown of pure gold on his head Psa 21:1
No man can come to Christ unless he is draen of the Father and illuminated by the Holy Spirit...one must be born again...as in saved by faitj thru grace....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
God forgives all sins and His redemption plan includes teaching His kids how to live godly lives.
Exactly.....and he never leaves us or forsakes us....and will finish the good work he started.....good thing he saves by faith throuh grace.....no works attached....Galatians is clear....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
imputed righteousness - a term miss-understood by many

Some believe God is blinded to the sin of believers by imputed righteousness of Christ.
I think this blindness is the deception people are under.

Because of faith in Christ God does not count these sins against, knowing in time we
will repent and resolve the issues. This is the mercy of God, empowered by Christ blood shed
on the cross. The whole basis of forgiveness is the future resolution through repentance.

The church has always dealt with sin over time. Identification of sinful behaviour, confrontation,
and finally rejection if not resolved.

If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Matt 18:15-17

3 steps -
Personal confrontation
Witnessed confrontation
Confront in the church
Reject if they do not resolve it.

Sin in an obvious needs to be taken seriously.
This is why I wonder at what the brothers are saying is insurmountable sin.
The examples given to date, are neither a problem or insurmountable.

Often people spend too much time condemning themselves rather than positively
praising God and making the most of loving people wherever they find opportunity.
God is clear....when I see the blood I will pass over you....by faith the righteousness of Christ is applied unto all true believers...his GRACE out bounds our sin, he forgives and cleanses us and if we still walk contrary he whips us as children.......again you fail to understand the truth and God seeing us through the blood of His righteous Son....!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
sirs, what must I do to be saved? - the Philippian jailer to Paul and Silas. believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved- their answer.

as usual, truth proves you wrong. maybe one day you will choose truth, and stop resisting it.
Amen....there is not one place that states out works save us or keep us saved, yet the bible is replete with verses that state clearly that faith alone saves....people who add works to faith for salvation....PAUL UNDER INSPIRATION states they are foolish and bewitched by a false gospel that has no power to save.....end of story
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
Have the workers for done enough today to stay saved....nope....they will never be able to do enough to get saved or be saved.....works do not save or embellish salvation.....1 or 10,000,000 works will not help one person reach the proverbial gates......