Not By Works

[PeterJens]

If you want to see what happens to spiritual disappointment with evangelical faith go to
North Korea. Kim Il-sung was raised in a Presbyterian family.

Now they are one of the most barbaric, dehumanising systems of state totalitarian dominance
ever invented. It is described by various escapies the horrendous experiments they will perform
on people, especially believers, because of their belief in the evil of faith.

For me this is the best example of pain from the past turned inwards.
Another example of this is Nietzech whose Father a minister died in his early childhood and this
disappointment led to total disallusion with the church and God.

So blaming faith or the wrong faith for deep wounds in nothing new, but it can lead to great
evil, because the anger overwhelms everything else.

The inquisition and torturing people for confessions of some imagined issue or evil, which these
devilish people were hiding was not uncommon.

My answer is only when you have a pure heart and are healed can you see where the error
lies and how Jesus calls us to walk. It is so easy to end up being a greater evil than the
very hurt and pain we are responding to, which blinds us to what is actually going on.

 

[PeterJens]

The sky is blue...

The killing of religious "sacred cows" is needed in order to bring the people out of religious captivity. There is a vast difference between people and religion.

Look at the way Jesus responded to the religious Pharisees and you will se how He views it.

Religion itself is an enemy of the Lord Jesus Christ - not the body of Christ as some in deceitfulness are trying to say some are against.

Some people's behavior just seem to remain consistently foul.

I had a thought. This sounds just like Marx. Religion is the opium of the people.
We must kill religion, it is the evil scourge of the earth.

Do you know how many millions of people have died because of this idealistic junk
and hatred resulted? Mao + Stalin maybe 60 million people

Calling things that are good, righteous and honourable - foul, is a very dangerous path.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh Boy,

Israel was Made Gods people. and given the oracles of God, It had Gods prophets, and bore Gods messiah. Yet look how evil they were.

Some people will go to great lengths to try to prove to THEMSELVES how right they are. hen their line of reasoning makes no sense to anyone else.

Luther was very antisemetic, and many think wrote the book Hitler used to try to exterminate Jews.

No one is righteous, no not one, People need to stop pointing to all these sinners, and start pointing to themselves and take care of their own sin. Better yet, Stop judging everyone else's sin and praising God for how holy and right they are. and start pointing to Christ.

 

[Stephen63]

We don't fight people - we stand against the religion of Christianity which is a false gospel that destroys people's lives. Religion and it's D.I.Y self-righteousness is an enemy of the Lord Jesus Christ. Those stuck in religion need the light of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to be boldly proclaimed to them.

The light of "Him" will dispel the darkness in people and the lies of the enemy that has a stronghold in our minds.

I encourage the believers in Christ to boldly proclaim the gospel of the grace of God in Christ alone.

In "it" - the gospel - the righteousness of God in Christ is revealed and it is the power of God for salvation. We are the righteousness of God in Christ because of Christ's work on the cross and resurrection. We are a new creation in Him - created in righteousness and holiness.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

James 1:27​

New International Version
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

New Living Translation
Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

English Standard Version
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

Berean Study Bible
Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Berean Literal Bible
Pure and undefiled religion before the God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their tribulation; to keep oneself unstained from the world.

New American Standard Bible
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

Wow..... that sounds like.....can it be..... works?

 

[Grace777x70]

I am so excited as I get to preach the gospel of Christ again!

Resting in Christ and works? What does it mean to enter into the rest of Christ? Does this mean we do nothing?

I don't chafe at the term "our doing". We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.

For it is God who is at work in us - both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He gives us both the desire and the capability. Phil. 2:13

What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.

Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.

Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ.

The word "rest" can bring the connotations to our natural humanistic minds that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.

I won't speak for the others but as far as works go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works" of a believer.

Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.

Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15

The life of the Vine supplies the "sap" needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in His good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action.

Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

There is a vast difference between "us" doing things by the flesh and the Lord doing things through and in us. ( there is good looking flesh and bad looking flesh - but it is all still flesh )

We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

 

[PeterJens]

The line between delusion and sanity

If a person if guilty not because of what they believe or how they act, but because
you think or believe they are evil, wicked etc. then one has passed from sanity to delusion.

Once this delusion is perpetuated and taught, any victim can be invented because there is
nothing that stops the label settling randomly on anyone.

If you start reading between the lines if religion is foul, then atheism is good.
If morality condemns people and is evil, then lawlessness and doing what is right in your
own eyes is good.

So the consequences of ones morality and ethics can lead you to a place you never
realised you were heading.

 

[WineRose]

This is slowly unfolding into one of the bloodiest forum wars I have seen here so far. Youtube comment sections have got nothing on this. How's everyone so far? Still in one piece?

 

[PeterJens]

This is slowly unfolding into one of the bloodiest forum wars I have seen here so far. Youtube comment sections have got nothing on this. How's everyone so far? Still in one piece?

Is this a war, or just the unfolding of the fruit of peoples hearts and theology?

Sadly I know from history, a few people with a strong set of beliefs, a group who are evil
and society is best rid of them, literally, become very real and dangerous.

Not many steps and these guys are there.

 

[Grace777x70]

For the fun of it - when we look up the Greek word for what we call "religion" in James 1:27 - we see that it really means worship.

Sometimes words get "hi-jacked" by our church teachings and become ingrained in our minds. It is used 4 times in the New Testament.

2333. [FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]θρησκεία[/FONT] [FONT="Gentium" !important]thrēskeia[/FONT] noun

Religion, worship.

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Zeta-Kappa.

Here is the exact same Greek word used and it is translated as "worship".

Colossians 2:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,

Here Paul uses the same word that calls the Jewish system a "religion."

Acts 26:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] since they have known about me for a long time, if they are willing to testify, that I lived as a Pharisee according to the strictest sect of our religion.


Here the Greek word is used as a cognate to show self-made religion.

Colossians 2:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

 

[PeterJens]

When do you know people are impervious to where they are?

When legitimate questions are not even understood, let alone answered.
But then maybe in truth these people only work within christian communities so
only christian language works for them.

Ironic the irreligious bounded by religious language and concepts. Sounds like they
only have a religious audience and actually are so embedded in religion they think
this is the world. lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is slowly unfolding into one of the bloodiest forum wars I have seen here so far. Youtube comment sections have got nothing on this. How's everyone so far? Still in one piece?

GM sis, I am so blessed in Christ, Had a great 1 .5 hour drive to my job sight, Got to spend time praying during that time, and contemplating my teaching on Acts 1 and pray this evening as I lead our home group. Just found out some of our international students will be there, and a few of them are very close to accepting Christ in Faith as their savior. God is doing such a great work, I am still amazed at all he accomplishes through sinners like Us.. All I can do is praise him even more..

Hope your evening is going well.

 

[PeterJens]

God is faithful to His people Amen
[video=youtube;3K0WphJSz9Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K0WphJSz9Q[/video]

 

[Ariel82]

This is slowly unfolding into one of the bloodiest forum wars I have seen here so far. Youtube comment sections have got nothing on this. How's everyone so far? Still in one piece?

Walk softly and carry a big stick?

 

[BillG]

paul hated blashomey along with all the other jews..... paul Got saved didnt he ?

WHAT WAS THE WORDS jESUS SAID TO PAUL..?

HE SAID PAUL WHY DO YOU PERSACUTE ME.....

did god say why have you killed so many christians..?

persecuting Me: In persecuting the church, Saul was persecuting the body of Christ whose individual members are in Christ.

By inference Saul was persecuting the followers of Jesus and therefore persecuting Jesus.

Jesus said

Matthew 25:40-46
And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’


“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’


“Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

So we say Jesus saying "you did this to them therefore you do it to me" and then we find "you didn't do it them therefore you didn't do it to me"

 

[valiant]

James 1:27​

New International Version
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

New Living Translation
Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

English Standard Version
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

Berean Study Bible
Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Berean Literal Bible
Pure and undefiled religion before the God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their tribulation; to keep oneself unstained from the world.

New American Standard Bible
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

Wow..... that sounds like.....can it be..... works?

yes the result of being saved

 

[BillG]

truly truly i tell you you can not be drawn to the son unless the fathers permits you to have eternal life..

Any chance you can give us a bible verse for your quote please

 

[JIMBO43]

Thanks Jimbo. I sometimes wonder at the simple antagonism.
The words Jesus is my Lord and Saviour do have a meaning.
I think people think only on a sunday morning or when I am doing my
spiritual stuff... and then only in areas I especially mark out.

Last night in our house group a brother was sharing about how the Lord
had been working in His heart. He is starting a new church among
portuguese speaking people, because they are finding it hard to find fellowship
in London where they do not understand the language that well.

He talked about how the Lord takes everything in one sense, not forcably but as
a way of humbling, and then starts to work in His time and way. But this is about
ministry to others and meeting needs, not our understanding of ourselves or how
we expect things to go. Without the right time and place, nothing will really move.

Eternal things we think happen because it is our dream, rather than this is the eternal
work of the King which we are joining, in His will. We are part of His plan and His will,
and I would rather rest here than anywhere else in the world. Amen.

This proves without a doubt that you are gratefull the word is a lamp to our feet and a light to our path... This is how we are to continue to be towards other people..

This is a must that those who are not a lamp or a light are rolling about in the mud shouting condemnation and twisted messages.. coz the evil spirit in them wont budge and gets more twisted and twists the minds of people who have not yet been purified in heart..

We can not follow this false religeon or we will be cut off from the vine.. The father doesnt muck about if you fall out of favor..

He also needs help tho in riding people of possession.. this is the biggest enemy peter that we have to take a step back and realise people here in this thread could be being tormented and twisted by thoughts not of there own but some evil spirt or influnce from a real person.

No one is untochable even Gods elite where persacuted and it says that the blessed will be persacuted to and this is why the full works of the heart is needed to be acomplished for one to truly have a full coat of armor we must develop a kind mind...

which is another works in progress we must rid the mind and heart of unforgivness first we also stay soberminded another and we must also stay alert...

we must also have compassion understanding that all the works inprogress is needed for every believer to excell where the by the enemy can no longer drag you down or twist the mind..

We know that is the case for why people need to grow and conform to the laws of christ..

We need to fast for 24 hours and both pray for the peoples hearts and mind to forgive people on the basis of evil influence.. and pray for Good works to be more evident in there closed mind theologies. amen to the king bro

 

[JIMBO43]

Any chance you can give us a bible verse for your quote please

Hi billy i was trying to get some to come into agreement but obviously that gift hasnt come my way from you so far..


all ive had from you is you betending to be my brother only to find fault in me..

 

[BillG]

This proves without a doubt that you are gratefull the word is a lamp to our feet and a light to our path... This is how we are to continue to be towards other people..

This is a must that those who are not a lamp or a light are rolling about in the mud shouting condemnation and twisted messages.. coz the evil spirit in them wont budge and gets more twisted and twists the minds of people who have not yet been purified in heart..

We can not follow this false religeon or we will be cut off from the vine.. The father doesnt muck about if you fall out of favor..

He also needs help tho in riding people of possession.. this is the biggest enemy peter that we have to take a step back and realise people here in this thread could be being tormented and twisted by thoughts not of there own but some evil spirt or influnce from a real person.

No one is untochable even Gods elite where persacuted and it says that the blessed will be persacuted to and this is why the full works of the heart is needed to be acomplished for one to truly have a full coat of armor we must develop a kind mind...

which is another works in progress we must rid the mind and heart of unforgivness first we also stay soberminded another and we must also stay alert...

we must also have compassion understanding that all the works inprogress is needed for every believer to excell where the by the enemy can no longer drag you down or twist the mind..

We know that is the case for why people need to grow and conform to the laws of christ..

We need to fast for 24 hours and both pray for the peoples hearts and mind to forgive people on the basis of evil influence.. and pray for Good works to be more evident in there closed mind theologies. amen to the king bro

What is the false religion you mention?

 

[JIMBO43]

persecuting Me: In persecuting the church, Saul was persecuting the body of Christ whose individual members are in Christ.

By inference Saul was persecuting the followers of Jesus and therefore persecuting Jesus.

Jesus said

Matthew 25:40-46
And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’


“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’


“Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

So we say Jesus saying "you did this to them therefore you do it to me" and then we find "you didn't do it them therefore you didn't do it to me"

Have you been on the old chicken delight again lol.. or shalli say iron bru..

anyways paul never killed anyone in the body but i grant you that maybe he did in the mind which is just as bad billy lad.

but obviously we do not want to go this way..

i just dont know if you want to cut my head off or be my brother ?