Not By Works
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A
Peterjens, some days I don't really feel like talking to you.
You assume you know what G777 believes, but too often you are wrong and all you do is make strawmen of others beliefs.
I am not "easily taken in" by people.
What I do is give people the benefit of doubt and let God deal with it.
I don't see the point in stalking someone who doesn't agree with me.
I simply state what I believe,the bible verses that support my belief and the ones that brought me to that understanding ..,then I pray and leave it in God's hands.
I don't have the power to change minds or hearts, only God does.
I speak, walk and fellowship as God leads me too.
Some people just need a loving nonjudgemental ear to listen to their thoughts.
I had older more mature Christians do it for me when I was younger and still have mentors I treasure who I can speak with and who will pray with me. They are just a phone call away.
I just try to be the person God wants me to be.
.I am not a lamb to the slaughter.
.I am a beloved child of God who is willing to walk in the middle of a war zone to rescue a brother or sister from the chains of the Enemy and his lies.
How you see me, is not who I am or how God sees me.
You assume you know what G777 believes, but too often you are wrong and all you do is make strawmen of others beliefs.
I am not "easily taken in" by people.
What I do is give people the benefit of doubt and let God deal with it.
I don't see the point in stalking someone who doesn't agree with me.
I simply state what I believe,the bible verses that support my belief and the ones that brought me to that understanding ..,then I pray and leave it in God's hands.
I don't have the power to change minds or hearts, only God does.
I speak, walk and fellowship as God leads me too.
Some people just need a loving nonjudgemental ear to listen to their thoughts.
I had older more mature Christians do it for me when I was younger and still have mentors I treasure who I can speak with and who will pray with me. They are just a phone call away.
I just try to be the person God wants me to be.
.I am not a lamb to the slaughter.
.I am a beloved child of God who is willing to walk in the middle of a war zone to rescue a brother or sister from the chains of the Enemy and his lies.
How you see me, is not who I am or how God sees me.
Read this so that you get the truth from the horse's mouth and not some "twisting" of what is really being said. At least you will be able to say "What are they really saying about some subjects?"
Why I am Hyper-Grace: Answering Five Common Objections
https://joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/what-about-hyper-grace/
Then of course people are free to agree or disagree too but at least if people would stop mis-representing what is really being said - that would be a start. I have never seen so much deceitful behavior amongst so-called Christians in my life since I came on this site and some of them are supposedly pastors too.
No wonder people are rejecting Christ - they are not really rejecting Christ - they are rejecting what others are portraying Him as.
Why I am Hyper-Grace: Answering Five Common Objections
https://joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/what-about-hyper-grace/
Then of course people are free to agree or disagree too but at least if people would stop mis-representing what is really being said - that would be a start. I have never seen so much deceitful behavior amongst so-called Christians in my life since I came on this site and some of them are supposedly pastors too.
No wonder people are rejecting Christ - they are not really rejecting Christ - they are rejecting what others are portraying Him as.
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Here is my testimony. To tell the truth - I could care less what anyone thinks of what I believe. I know my Lord Jesus Christ and if I let what others say about me stop me from speaking of His wondrous love and grace for all of us - I wouldn't be serving Him in integrity.
The interesting thing about this is that I did not learn this gospel of the grace of God in Christ initially from any preacher or teacher.
I was just going about my own business and I had won a trip to Puerto Rico with my work. I remember in a social meeting one person in our group asked about heaven. I told them I know exactly where I am going. They said "how do you know that"
I told them " I am going to kneel before my Father and declare that His Son - my Lord Jesus Christ shed His blood for me and I am here because of Him."
They all looked at me as if I was from another planet. "I said this will be my greatest achievement if one can even call it that - and that is to kneel down and confess Jesus and what He has done". ( they were shocked because I had won more awards then many others and to them...performance was everything )
Then a few weeks later I woke up with a scripture in my spirit - not my head. I wrote it down and then every morning for a few months the Lord would drop a scripture in my spirit. I still to this day from time to time take out those scriptures and meditate on them ( which includes confessing/agreeing with them ) as I feel directed by the Lord.
Now, those scriptures were the gospel of the grace of Christ and as I was learning more about them the Lord started me to look on the web for things and sure enough there were preachers preaching the same thing the Holy Spirit was showing me.
I had never heard of any of these preachers before the Lord directed me to them. So, I was taught the gospel of the grace of Christ before I ever heard another preacher talk about it.
I can remember times when the Holy Spirit would come upon me ( it seemed like He came upon me - or maybe welled up within me...I'm not sure but it felt like He wrapped me up as in a blanket of pure love ) - and He was teaching me things concerning Christ and the true nature of the Father.
His power is overwhelming and very heavy and I couldn't move a muscle but just sit there and weep as He revealed His love and grace to me. His love is the most overwhelming aspect of His presence. It is so strong and you can take much of it as it just overwhelms you.
Since then the Lord has led me to many different people from many denominations to learn what they are anointed to teach on.
The interesting thing about this is that I did not learn this gospel of the grace of God in Christ initially from any preacher or teacher.
I was just going about my own business and I had won a trip to Puerto Rico with my work. I remember in a social meeting one person in our group asked about heaven. I told them I know exactly where I am going. They said "how do you know that"
I told them " I am going to kneel before my Father and declare that His Son - my Lord Jesus Christ shed His blood for me and I am here because of Him."
They all looked at me as if I was from another planet. "I said this will be my greatest achievement if one can even call it that - and that is to kneel down and confess Jesus and what He has done". ( they were shocked because I had won more awards then many others and to them...performance was everything )
Then a few weeks later I woke up with a scripture in my spirit - not my head. I wrote it down and then every morning for a few months the Lord would drop a scripture in my spirit. I still to this day from time to time take out those scriptures and meditate on them ( which includes confessing/agreeing with them ) as I feel directed by the Lord.
Now, those scriptures were the gospel of the grace of Christ and as I was learning more about them the Lord started me to look on the web for things and sure enough there were preachers preaching the same thing the Holy Spirit was showing me.
I had never heard of any of these preachers before the Lord directed me to them. So, I was taught the gospel of the grace of Christ before I ever heard another preacher talk about it.
I can remember times when the Holy Spirit would come upon me ( it seemed like He came upon me - or maybe welled up within me...I'm not sure but it felt like He wrapped me up as in a blanket of pure love ) - and He was teaching me things concerning Christ and the true nature of the Father.
His power is overwhelming and very heavy and I couldn't move a muscle but just sit there and weep as He revealed His love and grace to me. His love is the most overwhelming aspect of His presence. It is so strong and you can take much of it as it just overwhelms you.
Since then the Lord has led me to many different people from many denominations to learn what they are anointed to teach on.
U
Ariel it is true,
G777 preaches about abounding grace of God for believers and is vilified.
The message of absolute victory and freedom from sin and the law that is found by drawing from the living waters of God's grace has been and will continue to be.... offensive... until that final day.
It is a hard thing to be like a child, that is to abandon what we think we know and believe what God says is true, that He loves us beyond all measure and His grace is abundant.
G777 preaches about abounding grace of God for believers and is vilified.
The message of absolute victory and freedom from sin and the law that is found by drawing from the living waters of God's grace has been and will continue to be.... offensive... until that final day.
It is a hard thing to be like a child, that is to abandon what we think we know and believe what God says is true, that He loves us beyond all measure and His grace is abundant.
Ariel, the history is simple. g7 joined cc in november 2015 and introduced us to
escapetoreality and all the HG preachers, video after video, with a fair percentage
of Paul Elises sermons. Now if you were not a HG believer you would never know
this stuff or share it.
But I am obviously wrong and not speaking the truth, lol
The issue is ariel is this is not about my opinions but where people really stand.
The irony is HG believe the religious find their ideas repulsive until they convert
and then it is heaven. To me this is cloud cockoo land, but that is just me.
Unfortunately I cannot call such heresy the gospel, but others are much more
charitable. What I have discovered is if you have an open heart, and listen to
Jesus, grace is glorious, and so is holiness and walking in love and purity.
God bless you Ariel, and have a good time with your scouts.
escapetoreality and all the HG preachers, video after video, with a fair percentage
of Paul Elises sermons. Now if you were not a HG believer you would never know
this stuff or share it.
But I am obviously wrong and not speaking the truth, lol
The issue is ariel is this is not about my opinions but where people really stand.
The irony is HG believe the religious find their ideas repulsive until they convert
and then it is heaven. To me this is cloud cockoo land, but that is just me.
Unfortunately I cannot call such heresy the gospel, but others are much more
charitable. What I have discovered is if you have an open heart, and listen to
Jesus, grace is glorious, and so is holiness and walking in love and purity.
God bless you Ariel, and have a good time with your scouts.
Amen...those who receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One.
Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
- Christ Jesus Himself. He is our Savior, He is our Life, He is our wisdom, He is our righteousness, He is our sanctification and He is our redemption.
He is not a religion. Once you have seen what the Lord Jesus Christ has really done on the cross and resurrection and that we too died with Him and were raised to newness of life - we are forever changed.
Make no mistake about it - the gospel of the grace of God in Christ is offense to the self-righteousness/holiness belief system that is in the world system. They are in fact rejecting the grace of God and replacing it with their own self-effort and denying their Lord and Master.
Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
- Christ Jesus Himself. He is our Savior, He is our Life, He is our wisdom, He is our righteousness, He is our sanctification and He is our redemption.
He is not a religion. Once you have seen what the Lord Jesus Christ has really done on the cross and resurrection and that we too died with Him and were raised to newness of life - we are forever changed.
Make no mistake about it - the gospel of the grace of God in Christ is offense to the self-righteousness/holiness belief system that is in the world system. They are in fact rejecting the grace of God and replacing it with their own self-effort and denying their Lord and Master.
By the way a little commentary.
My approach is to understand the theology people are preaching, document it and compare it
with scripture and my spiritual understanding.
The reason HG is grinding to a halt is because it does not work or is how the Lord works.
There has always been a need for people to see the Lords love abounding through the cross,
setting us free and overwhelming sin and the barriers in our lives. That is open free conversion.
But the total all out war on religion, is destructive condemnation and judgmentalism on normal
believers which occurs at almost every open encounter. It ground cc to a halt which is why it
got banned as a subject. I think in all honesty it is best to realise the danger and agree to disagree.
The converts to this position consistently talk now about being de-brain washed, that church
history shows the destruction of the church by legalism and this is really the battle.
I would counter the real battle is to bring the cross into every church goers heart, and help them
know the astounding love Jesus brought to earth through this. This is the great revival we are
hoping for, when the reality of Gods word touches the whole world.
All the legalism in the world fades away to nothing it the wave of love and reality.
It is what grace believer has experienced time and again as they see what love does to their
hearts and how it frees them from the legalism of rules. But this is what conversion and see
Christ is. It is this love which is our mission and our calling, so let us take this to the world
and church together. Amen
My approach is to understand the theology people are preaching, document it and compare it
with scripture and my spiritual understanding.
The reason HG is grinding to a halt is because it does not work or is how the Lord works.
There has always been a need for people to see the Lords love abounding through the cross,
setting us free and overwhelming sin and the barriers in our lives. That is open free conversion.
But the total all out war on religion, is destructive condemnation and judgmentalism on normal
believers which occurs at almost every open encounter. It ground cc to a halt which is why it
got banned as a subject. I think in all honesty it is best to realise the danger and agree to disagree.
The converts to this position consistently talk now about being de-brain washed, that church
history shows the destruction of the church by legalism and this is really the battle.
I would counter the real battle is to bring the cross into every church goers heart, and help them
know the astounding love Jesus brought to earth through this. This is the great revival we are
hoping for, when the reality of Gods word touches the whole world.
All the legalism in the world fades away to nothing it the wave of love and reality.
It is what grace believer has experienced time and again as they see what love does to their
hearts and how it frees them from the legalism of rules. But this is what conversion and see
Christ is. It is this love which is our mission and our calling, so let us take this to the world
and church together. Amen
Holiness is in only one place the gospel of Christ.
Being righteous is our calling, and being aware of our standing is being self righteous.
Doing evil is sin, and there is no reward in boasting about being righteous, or in pompously
doing it in front of others, but it is not evil, like it is being claimed here.
It is the fascination with condemnation and not love overcoming legalism which shows there
focus is worldly and not spiritual.
Being righteous is our calling, and being aware of our standing is being self righteous.
Doing evil is sin, and there is no reward in boasting about being righteous, or in pompously
doing it in front of others, but it is not evil, like it is being claimed here.
It is the fascination with condemnation and not love overcoming legalism which shows there
focus is worldly and not spiritual.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...rror-hyper-gracea-response-michael-brown.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/133149-your-sins-not-being-recorded.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/130914-boast-goda-s-grace-you.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/129964-grace-not-message-its-person-jesus.html
These are just a few I've found so far. Check them out.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/133149-your-sins-not-being-recorded.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/130914-boast-goda-s-grace-you.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/129964-grace-not-message-its-person-jesus.html
These are just a few I've found so far. Check them out.
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Here are some more horrifying threads about the goodness and love of God for us. What "horrid" things will these people speak about next?
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/130530-god-you-not-against-you.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135801-jesus-your-sweet-aroma-god.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135714-true-profession-heart.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/134690-not-just-forgiven-but-made-righteous-too.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/134170-god-your-strength.html
This one here should go into the record books as the most vile and evil thing in CC. What? Trust in Jesus for everything?..my goodness the heresy is just wild around here...
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/133598-trust-completely-jesus.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/132350-you-have-jesusa-you-have-everything.html
Now you know why I do not interact with some behavior types on CC anymore.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/130530-god-you-not-against-you.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135801-jesus-your-sweet-aroma-god.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135714-true-profession-heart.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/134690-not-just-forgiven-but-made-righteous-too.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/134170-god-your-strength.html
This one here should go into the record books as the most vile and evil thing in CC. What? Trust in Jesus for everything?..my goodness the heresy is just wild around here...
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/133598-trust-completely-jesus.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/132350-you-have-jesusa-you-have-everything.html
Now you know why I do not interact with some behavior types on CC anymore.
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E
Peter I give up, everyone in this room knows time after time I have called you out specifically on points of the accusations I make, yet time after time again, you say I do not do this,
i do do not know how you live with yourself and continue on, but I guess that's the way it is going to be,
again, if all you want to do is blame shift, no on can help you but a God, I leave tomorrow for a week of R and R, I doubt I will be on much if at all, so you can find someone else to attack and belittle and slander ok?
When i return, if I see you make a doctrinal issue, I disagree with, I will point it out, and we will start all over again, because once again you will take it as an attack when it is not, and have to for whatever reason feel you have to defend yourself,
i learnd along long time ago, when your humble, you never need to defend yourself when you have true faith in what you believe, again, no need to slander, no need to defend and no need to blame shift.
I (we) can only pray you eventually see this yourself as someone said there is always hope for everyone.
E
Wow, I have read their gospel, and t is the same as ours, I do not know where you are reading, there are a few hyper grace people here, and I knew their gospel before I knew they were hypergrace,
the only people i hear call them easy believers is stephen Peter and their gang, and they use anti HP websights to promote their lies,, so I hope that is not where you get your info.
Anyway, I am interested, Can you share it, maybe you saw something I did not?
the only people i hear call them easy believers is stephen Peter and their gang, and they use anti HP websights to promote their lies,, so I hope that is not where you get your info.
Anyway, I am interested, Can you share it, maybe you saw something I did not?
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128776-cheap-grace-free-grace.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-you-see-goda-s-grace-he-sees-your-faith.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/129506-how-recognize-mixed-grace-gospel.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/130020-let-your-heart-established-grace.html
I'm done. If these don't prove it, it's because no one wants it proved.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-you-see-goda-s-grace-he-sees-your-faith.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/129506-how-recognize-mixed-grace-gospel.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/130020-let-your-heart-established-grace.html
I'm done. If these don't prove it, it's because no one wants it proved.
I loved this one.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128776-cheap-grace-free-grace.html
This is a question a person had concerning the terms used for grace...such as free, cheap grace.
I thought the guy answered it well considering the many derogatory things being said about the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ towards us in His great love for us..
Q. I am disturbed by a pastor who is always attacking those who teach OSAS and salvation by Grace alone. I am sure you have met many like him in your days of ministry. He keeps on referring to this as cheap grace and of course as expected, he rubbishes this. What do you say about this thing he calls cheap Grace? Is it okay to refer to what we believe this way?
A. In my opinion “cheap grace” is a derogatory phrase. People who use it contend that some ongoing contribution of good works is required to achieve or maintain our salvation. They say people who believe that salvation is attained by the grace of God through faith alone have devalued the gospel and are taking the Lord’s death on our behalf as a license to sin without consequences. Hence the term “cheap grace.”
What they’re really saying is they don’t believe Jesus did everything required to save us, but only began the work of our salvation and now it’s up to us to complete it by behaving in a certain way. According to them, the failure to do so will result in the loss of our salvation. (Sadly, some of them have made themselves the judge as to whether not our behavior meets the standard.)
They say this in spite of the fact the Bible does say we’re saved by grace through faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). It says we were included in Christ from the moment we believed and God has put His mark of ownership on us and His Spirit in our hearts as a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance (2 Cor. 1:21-22, Ephesians 1:13-14).
It says a righteousness from God has been imputed to us because of our belief in what Jesus did for us at the cross. It says there is no difference in people for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, but we are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus (Romans 3:21-24). This last verse tells us that the appropriate name for what we believe is “free grace” not “cheap grace.”
No truly born again Christian believes he or she has been granted a license to sin. On the contrary, we believe we owe an enormous debt of gratitude to the Lord who saved us, and understand that trying to behave in a manner pleasing to Him is how we express that gratitude. But we also understand that no amount of “good works” can make us righteous. That’s why we need a Savior.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128776-cheap-grace-free-grace.html
This is a question a person had concerning the terms used for grace...such as free, cheap grace.
I thought the guy answered it well considering the many derogatory things being said about the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ towards us in His great love for us..
Q. I am disturbed by a pastor who is always attacking those who teach OSAS and salvation by Grace alone. I am sure you have met many like him in your days of ministry. He keeps on referring to this as cheap grace and of course as expected, he rubbishes this. What do you say about this thing he calls cheap Grace? Is it okay to refer to what we believe this way?
A. In my opinion “cheap grace” is a derogatory phrase. People who use it contend that some ongoing contribution of good works is required to achieve or maintain our salvation. They say people who believe that salvation is attained by the grace of God through faith alone have devalued the gospel and are taking the Lord’s death on our behalf as a license to sin without consequences. Hence the term “cheap grace.”
What they’re really saying is they don’t believe Jesus did everything required to save us, but only began the work of our salvation and now it’s up to us to complete it by behaving in a certain way. According to them, the failure to do so will result in the loss of our salvation. (Sadly, some of them have made themselves the judge as to whether not our behavior meets the standard.)
They say this in spite of the fact the Bible does say we’re saved by grace through faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). It says we were included in Christ from the moment we believed and God has put His mark of ownership on us and His Spirit in our hearts as a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance (2 Cor. 1:21-22, Ephesians 1:13-14).
It says a righteousness from God has been imputed to us because of our belief in what Jesus did for us at the cross. It says there is no difference in people for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, but we are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus (Romans 3:21-24). This last verse tells us that the appropriate name for what we believe is “free grace” not “cheap grace.”
No truly born again Christian believes he or she has been granted a license to sin. On the contrary, we believe we owe an enormous debt of gratitude to the Lord who saved us, and understand that trying to behave in a manner pleasing to Him is how we express that gratitude. But we also understand that no amount of “good works” can make us righteous. That’s why we need a Savior.