Not By Works

[Meggido]

I will try to explain how I understand this. You can take it for what its worth. Think of gravity. Everything is affected by it. A plane however can overcome gravity because of thrust and lift. Without those the plane will fall.

As long as we are focused on Christ, we are soaring the heavens or walking on water. That is what living the true Christian life is like. It is walking on water; it is impossible, but all things are possible with God. Peter did it for a short time.

Like someone said on the forum "it is not about the perfection of our walk; it is about the direction..." When David committed adultery and murder, he was still considered a man after God's heart. We are not called saints because we are perfect; we are called saints because we are forgiven. That doesn't mean we are no longer saints when we sin. God's Grace by faith gives us the thrust and lift to overcome the gravitational pull of sin, but like Peter, when we take our eyes off Christ we sink.

I hope you can understand where I am coming from. God's mercy and Grace is not a license to live in sin; It is the power to live right, but we have to deal with our old nature till we die. That is the gravity pull of sin, but we have God's grace to overcome that, but do I always overcome sin? No, like Paul said, "What I want to do I don't, and what I don't want to do, I do." The unsaved want and love the sin they do; the saints hate and don't want the sin they do. That is the big difference between the saved (Saints) and the lost (wicked)!

thank you...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am glad you agree, of one does not need faith in all areas to be saved, Lack of faith in a few areas does not disqualify us from being Gods people.

Agreed.




I am not sure if I understood you right on this last part, , So will not assume, Just tell you what I think.

I think via the cross. God through the line, We are all or at least we were) drowning in our sin and debt, And God sent us a life preserver,

But he will not force people to take it, Those who have faith will. Those who do not will not.

The world is throwing you a line to, Its leader is satan Some grab that line, because they want it more than Gods line, and they have more faith in that line.

Sadly, most of the worlds religions, including many sects of Christianity, Have grabbed on this line thinking it is Gods line, and will get a surprise one day when they realize they grabbed the wrong line.

This would require more conversation. I agree with the Whole first part.
Not sure what you mean by "grabbing satan's line" if the person is in Church and not an atheist...a-

[
th Jews were not atheists, but they grabbed unto satans line, in the same token, just because one goes to church does not mean they have firmly grasped gods lin and he has already lifted them out, the could be trying to hold on to both lines, and in fact, they church could be a false church, so hey may not even be touching gods line, the Pharisee and Jew who followed him certainly were not touching gods line

This is where we separate. I do not think God gives people a reason to lose faith, or to lose hope. Only the world can offer you a hope that is not hope that is weak and unable to give you what it promises,, These people keep looking for hope they can not find.. Some find it in religion. Some think they have found it in some form of Christianity, But they never trusted it, These people will not last, they will walk away, Not because they lost hope. but because they never took hold and grabbed hold of the hope God offers.

then I think their are some who want to hold on to the worlds rope and Gods,, They will drown in there sin because they did not take proper Hold of Gods rope. and they slipped and fell and perished.

OK. Aren't these the people in Mathew 13:21 ?? I'd say they are.

I agree, and as Jesus said they had no root, that's why they fell, they had n foundation to hold on to, so when it got rough they fell

if you have no root, your not saved, you only saved if you place your foundation in Christ, they had no faith, so when it was tested by troubles, they walked away, how do you say it? The had no works. Their faith was dead.

To me it is the most important, Getting this part wrong has eternal consequences.

I think you have, I hope you see now why I believe the way I do concerning faith and Hope.

I understand your concern. I'm conerned that OSAS will draw many away from the true gospel.
But I wouldn't be that conerned if I were you.
Think of this,,,I've said it before...

You believe in OSAS. I do not believe you are lost.
But you believe I am because I DON'T believe in it.

So, listen...
what is it that saves a person?

Is it their CORRECT DOCTRINE
OR
Is it their faith in JESUS??


Answer this.

its faith in God, if people think God can not be trustworthy to do what he promised, hen how can they claim to have faith

 

[Meggido]

V1-2: "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For (because/since) the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death"

That bit in red is a confirmation, not a condition.

Nor is it added in the original manuscripts...Better translations like the NASB, etc do not include it.

 

[Meggido]

I went to a Lutheran funeral. They do do the eucharist, only it is not limited as in the catholic church only to certain people. I can say I was saddened that the gospel was not given, Especially since I am not sure my nephew is saved. And was hoping the death of his mother could shake him, But a lost opportunity.

I will nto say what their gospel is, I do not know. so will not guess.. I know my brother in law loves it,

I know she is hit or miss, but the female poster named Zone on here is a Lutheran...might ask her

 

[dcontroversal]

No one is preaching sinless perfection, that is a made up straw-man by the self proclaimed sinfull perfectionists...no one is free from ignorance or mistakes in judgement, but we can be free from the vile sins of the flesh that will disqualify one from the kingdom.......the OT day of atonement was for sins of ignorance, not willful rebellion, look it up and see for yourself..

All seven offerings had particular application and yes, willful sin was covered regardless of your ignorance....David being a prime example.....the more you talk the more it is obvious that you really do not know what you are talking about....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, but Paul did.

2 Corinthians 1:22
​

New International Version
set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

New Living Translation
and he has identified us as his own by placing the Holy Spirit in our hearts as the first installment that guarantees everything he has promised us.

English Standard Version
and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

New American Standard Bible
who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 1

13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
2Cor 5:4For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. 5Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

Aww poor stephen, you should have left me on ignore
how long did Paul say that pledge lasted?

until we worked hard enough? no

as long as we work hard enough? no

until we lose faith? no

as long as we keep faith? no

as long as we follow some law? No

as long as we have mor good deeds than bad deeds (trying to cover all the basis). no


he said until the day of Christ. The day of redemption, the day our eternal life is finally seen and experienced in heaven with him

but hey, if you want to add to the word, or listen to men who teach you what you want to hear (all those so called theologians you been showing us). Feel free, no sweat off our backs

 

[Meggido]

I think the fact he stood up to the other thief, and professed jesus as lord was a work. Not that I htink that saved him, But I think it is through his faith that gave him the power to save that.

Faith saves, and faith works.. But works do not save or add to salvation.

Think about this for a second EG....

He believed in his heart he would see Jesus in paradise[raised from the dead]....then confessed him as Lord with his mouth to Jesus and to the other thief...

Is this not the revelation of Jesus to Paul in Romans 10.9-10?

Just pointing this out and not saying right, wrong or otherwise...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I know she is hit or miss, but the female poster named Zone on here is a Lutheran...might ask her

So is Someone named Angela I believe

 

[Ariel82]

Jesus said paid in full

he did not say you had a down payment

I think in this instance she is referring to getting the Holy spirit now (downpayment) and her glorfied body later(resurrection)

However I am sure she will pipe in and tell me where I am wrong or accuse me of gossiping if she doesn't like my summary.

 

[dcontroversal]

Aww poor stephen, you should have left me on ignore
how long did Paul say that pledge lasted?

until we worked hard enough? no

as long as we work hard enough? no

until we lose faith? no

as long as we keep faith? no

as long as we follow some law? No

as long as we have mor good deeds than bad deeds (trying to cover all the basis). no


he said until the day of Christ. The day of redemption, the day our eternal life is finally seen and experienced in heaven with him

but hey, if you want to add to the word, or listen to men who teach you what you want to hear (all those so called theologians you been showing us). Feel free, no sweat off our backs

AMEN...just like saying Christ will not finish what he started or does not have enough power to finish what he started.....seems the workers for serve a weak, feckless god with a small g....

The JESUS I serve PROMISES to KEEP ME, NOT CAST ME AWAY AND FINISH WHAT HE STARTED IN MY LIFE BY BRINGING IT TO FRUITION......

 

[Ariel82]

I know she is hit or miss, but the female poster named Zone on here is a Lutheran...might ask her

Fighting for the Faith — Pirate Christian Media

Was gonna comment but..

 

[Ariel82]

I can't believe you just fixed your mouth to say that.

Hmmmm????

Do YOU want to clarify these words?

Originally Posted by FranC View Post
Agreed.

Ive said many times that if we're going to attribute EVERYTHING to God, then we must also blame Him when we sin.

 

[Meggido]

Free will is not a biblical concept, it dates back to Greek philosophy. Please use biblical concepts to defend you stance.

free choice is a biblical concept, while predestination[ God picking you and not picking someone] else is not.

 

[Meggido]

How is free will, (or volitional will) not a biblical concept? God in the NT employs our free will to be at its pristine best and is fully activated by the spirits lead. Are you suggesting the soul is dead, and is not re-commissioned under the guise of the spirit after regeneration? Your emotions and thinking and will are not governed by the Spirits lead and spirits reception to be used actively to go along with Jesus in walking in this world? Have we transformed in our physical state yet? Are we not yet human? enabled by Christ to live spiritually herein out, until the day of our physical transformation as well?

Was it not Volitional will which believed in Jesus in the first place? Is it not free will which picks up your cross daily and follows Jesus? Can you explain your answer here?

you are asking a person who believes in predestination why there is no free choice in the Bible...

 

[UnderGrace]

Choice is a biblical concept not free choice.
"For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do" Romans 7 15.
Free will versus determinism is Greek philosophy that has been infused into theology.

I do not believe that in the theology of predestination as understood by Calvin... again that is also not what scripture is really saying he was absolutely wrong.

free choice is a biblical concept, while predestination[ God picking you and not picking someone] else is not.

 

[Meggido]

So is Someone named Angela I believe

Angela is a baptist...

 

[slave]

Faith is just one simple answer. Believing God and taking him at his word. Faith defined is summed up in HEBREWS; Chapter eleven, but then ,if you don't understand faith, then you don't understand God.

Believing Him is simply a well thought-out answer! We don't start out in regeneration understanding God fully yet, we have simply made a choice based on belief. God has yet to build our Character in Him by us knowing God better. Faith is a multitude of separate moral choices, that take place thru transformational agonies experientially, as we learn of His empowerment in our lives; and our need to die to the right to ourselves. We understand from His Word that we are liberated to serve Him, based on Jesus' sacrifice on a Cross, and His purposes and intentions start to become our desires as well; now we simply must become proficient at our Christ-like New Creation in Him. And He is there every step to guide and empower us to completion.We, therefore, forget what is behind and strain toward what is ahead and press on to take hold of that for which Christ took hold of us.

We are now freed from sin and the world. But God must complete us in His grace thru faith as the Holy Spirit is our guarantee of things to come for us. We must conquer our sins and crucify the things of our flesh, based on His finished work on a Cross. He patiently enables our faithfulness in His completeness (in merging us to Himself) to succeed in doing His will in everyday tasks He makes clear for us to do thru our spirit guiding us for the sake of His intentions.We are equipped, therefore, by Him in righteousness to conquer sins, as He has conquered sin, as we volitionally align our will with His and live by way of the spirits lead, onwardly, resulting in His empowerment and success.

It is a one time decision to believe in Jesus, but in the wake of the exercising of our faith remaining in Christ we are strengthened in our faith and belief, and God creates in us our spirit and soul character as His Word and our life merge by the Spirits transforming grace.

Believing, therefore, is an absolute determined conclusion; a volitional choice! Faith is the driving force of believing and receiving Christ in our lives; as He processes His Lordship patiently and completely - always leading us onward and upward. From His finished work on the cross; He Himself then finishes His workmanship in each and everyone of us starting from His finished work both in victory over sin, and in the fact we too were crucified in Christ and we no longer live....to our finished product: which is a realness in understanding the fullness of Christ in our lives resonating from our character and demeanor in Christ leading to full maturity from experiences in living a life like Christ lived.

 

[Ariel82]

Depends on how you define free will.

Our will is influenced by many different things. Some people would say because of these influences it's not really "free".

However I disagree. I believe free will is the ABILITY to chose not placing the stress on the "free" as much as the fact we have "will" or the ability to choose right or wrong.

However before we were born again it was enslaved to sin and it's lies. Our will was to be selfish and self serving and blind.

God shone a light and call us back to Him.

I believe that calling was universal. In other words the OFFER of salvation is for all of humanity. Some people listen and some don't.

The question I still ponder is why do some people listen and others don't?

I can't speak for others but I know that the only reason I listened is because God made me listen. Otherwise I would have wander off and do my own thing. I also know I did nothing to earn His love but that God saved me while I was a sinner in need of a Savior.

 

[Meggido]

Choice is a biblical concept not free choice.
"For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do" Romans 7 15.
Free will versus determinism is Greek philosophy that has been infused into theology.

I do not believe that in the theology of predestination as understood by Calvin... again that is also not what scripture is really saying he was absolutely wrong.

your confusing things here undergrace...

Romans 7 says what you say, but Romans 8 shows us the way to defeat the war of 2 natures...if you believe we have 2 old dogs fighting in us all the time, which is not something I believe...nor do I believe in sinless perfection and that I do not sin, because I do sin...Romans 6 tells us the old man/nature is buried with Christ...Gal 5.24 says those with Jesus have crucified their flesh and the passions and desires of the flesh....

There is nothing Biblical about 2 natures fighting each other in the New Covenant....either you are new man or you are not...there is no in between wiggle room and this is one of the absolute worst things about suggesting you will never lose personal faith in God.

Free choice is the basis for covenant relationship....what would happen if you stopped praying, studying/reading/meditating the word and being led by the Spirit to make disciples for 7 days?...God certainly will never leave me, my salvation is secure, but will I be close enough to hear him and abide? What If I kept on this trend for 7 weeks then 7 Months...are you going to sit here and smugly tell me it would not matter in your life, especially if Satan started playing mind games with you?

It was my free choice to stop my relationship with God, through praying, studying/reading/meditating the word and being led by the Spirit to make disciples....this is how apostasy/backsliding starts.....contrary to the rosy view it will never happen to a believer and is the chief doctrine taught in the Epistle to the Thessalonians, Colossians, Titus and 1 & 2 Timothy and 1 & 2 Peter and Jude...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Angela is a baptist...

The one. Am talking about went to school and always talks about her Lutheran roots,

she is is definitely not baptist,