Not By Works
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mate your post yesterday that made billy lose his rag with me was also a blatant lie... so to me pal you are like this ,,,,, that is deciept and also constantly remind people of there sins which is what satan him verry self does...
jUST LIKE YOU CONSTANT REMINDERS THAT PETER PANS IS THE ONLY GUY YOUVE BLOCKED... if i was you pal i would listen to this...
jUST LIKE YOU CONSTANT REMINDERS THAT PETER PANS IS THE ONLY GUY YOUVE BLOCKED... if i was you pal i would listen to this...
Agreed, this view makes scripture wonderfully consistent as it should be of course!!
I pose my question to you because even when we have a difference of view (tongues for example
) you never make it personal.
I appreciate that!
With regards to 2 Thel 2:3, we know a Christian is justified by God and so there is no falling away from justification/salvation, but yes falling from grace can happen...so in this chapter I have read that the "falling away" based on the larger context is not about those who have been justified but about the larger world who did not receive the love of the truth but were in a final revolt against God. (verse 10).
It is these people who receive the strong delusion. It seems this is about the big picture about mankind and there regard for God not about believers.
It my understanding that the Greek word can also mean a type of political revolt. In context, this understanding works within the entire teachings that believers are eternally justified and falling away needs to be understood within context of the passage.
I pose my question to you because even when we have a difference of view (tongues for example
) you never make it personal.I appreciate that!
With regards to 2 Thel 2:3, we know a Christian is justified by God and so there is no falling away from justification/salvation, but yes falling from grace can happen...so in this chapter I have read that the "falling away" based on the larger context is not about those who have been justified but about the larger world who did not receive the love of the truth but were in a final revolt against God. (verse 10).
It is these people who receive the strong delusion. It seems this is about the big picture about mankind and there regard for God not about believers.
It my understanding that the Greek word can also mean a type of political revolt. In context, this understanding works within the entire teachings that believers are eternally justified and falling away needs to be understood within context of the passage.
Fallen from grace does not mean "living in sin" as we have been religiously taught or that we hear from the world's media. So and so was caught stealing $100,000,000 from his hedge fund - "he has fallen from grace".
To fall from grace as Paul used the term is to rely on our own works for righteousness - such as "doing good works to remain saved".
The Judaizers in Paul's day came to the Galatians and said "You must be circumcised" once you are in Christ now. It is the "doing of the law in order to achieve and maintain righteousness."
This actually goes back before the Mosaic Covenant to Abraham as a "sign of you are in the covenant now" and God said if they weren't circumcised - they were not in the covenant - so you can understand how Christians could fall for this.
Galatians 5:3-4 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
(Justified by law means - you are justifying or making yourself righteous "by what you do or don't do". The whole law of Moses was based on this.)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
The Greek word for "severed" means "to make idle" or "useless" "to nullify".
This is why those that say we need to do good works in order to stay saved are really nullifying or making useless or idle the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.
2643. [FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]καταργέω[/FONT] [FONT="Gentium" !important]katargeō[/FONT] verb
Make idle or useless, waste, abolish, cease, do away with, destroy.
[FONT="Gentium" !important]Katargeō[/FONT] means “to abolish” or “to nullify.” In classical Greek [FONT="Gentium" !important]katargeō[/FONT] means “to render inactive, to put out of use, to cancel, bring to nothing” or “do away with.”
Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Zeta-Kappa.
And Paul "did not say" that the Galatians were not saved or in Christ anymore - just that their own attempts to do works to create or maintain righteousness would "nullify or make useless" the grace of God that is in Christ and His finished work on the cross and resurrection from operating in their lives like it was meant to.
Paul was very militant at protecting the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ from the "doing of things in order to be righteous".
The grace of God in Christ will manifest itself in our lives in the doing of good works which He has prepared for us to walk in - as we live by relying on Him and what He has already done for us. Eph. 2:10
But we must have Christ Himself as central in all things. He is the Savior.
We must always have the horse before the cart. The "horse" being the righteousness of God in Christ and that we are a new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. This righteousness comes as a "gift" - not of any good works to create it or maintain it.
A
I so don't know what you believe.
What do you mean a measure of saving faith? A mustard seed size faith is enough to grow and save a person.
If each man is give a measure of saving faith, why isn't everyone saved?
I believe in the concepts of previenient grace and common grace, but I believe that justifying grace only happens to people with a saving faith that makes a verbal confession that Jesus is their Lord and Savior.
I don't believe everyone has a saving faith.
I believe everyone gets to hear the gospel message but not everyone will accept it.
I just wondering if you had an insight into why some people accept the Gospel and why some people don't?
What do you mean a measure of saving faith? A mustard seed size faith is enough to grow and save a person.
If each man is give a measure of saving faith, why isn't everyone saved?
I believe in the concepts of previenient grace and common grace, but I believe that justifying grace only happens to people with a saving faith that makes a verbal confession that Jesus is their Lord and Savior.
I don't believe everyone has a saving faith.
I believe everyone gets to hear the gospel message but not everyone will accept it.
I just wondering if you had an insight into why some people accept the Gospel and why some people don't?
How awesome is this place!
This is none other than the house of God,
and this is the gate of heaven.
Gen 28:17
Amen. Those who live in the shadow and are merely shadows do not perceive
the light because they are not of the light.
I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.
John 12:46
The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
John 1:5
This is none other than the house of God,
and this is the gate of heaven.
Gen 28:17
Amen. Those who live in the shadow and are merely shadows do not perceive
the light because they are not of the light.
I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.
John 12:46
The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
John 1:5
I'm a bit confused here. Are you saying this Lordship salvation to be good or bad? For what Stephen posted sounds right to me. I don't quite understand what this about and have never read McArthurs writings.
I pretty much stick to those I know.
Am going to investigate. Never mind...I need to catch up with you all or I will continue to be confused.
I pretty much stick to those I know.
Am going to investigate. Never mind...I need to catch up with you all or I will continue to be confused.
3) The object of faith is Christ Himself, not a promise, a prayer, or a creed (John 3:16). Faith must involve a personal commitment to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:15). It is more than being convinced of the truth of the gospel; it is a forsaking of this world and a following of the Master. The Lord Jesus said, “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me” (John 10:27).
4) True faith always produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17). The inner person is transformed by the Holy Spirit (Galatians 2:20), and the Christian has new nature (Romans 6:6). Those with genuine faith—those who are submitted to the lordship of Christ—follow Jesus (John 10:27), love their brothers (1 John 3:14), obey God’s commandments (1 John 2:3; John 15:14), do the will of God (Matthew 12:50), abide in God’s Word (John 8:31), keep God’s Word (John 17:6), do good works (Ephesians 2:10), and continue in the faith (Colossians 1:21–23; Hebrews 3:14). Salvation is not adding Jesus to the pantheon of one’s idols; it is a wholesale destruction of the idols with Jesus reigning supreme.
4) True faith always produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17). The inner person is transformed by the Holy Spirit (Galatians 2:20), and the Christian has new nature (Romans 6:6). Those with genuine faith—those who are submitted to the lordship of Christ—follow Jesus (John 10:27), love their brothers (1 John 3:14), obey God’s commandments (1 John 2:3; John 15:14), do the will of God (Matthew 12:50), abide in God’s Word (John 8:31), keep God’s Word (John 17:6), do good works (Ephesians 2:10), and continue in the faith (Colossians 1:21–23; Hebrews 3:14). Salvation is not adding Jesus to the pantheon of one’s idols; it is a wholesale destruction of the idols with Jesus reigning supreme.
In all reality brother...this may be true but I have never heard this before and I have listened to over 2,000 messages on the grace and love of God.
I have heard the complete opposite of this but I have however heard many times people saying and falsely accusing others of saying that.
If no one says "What?..are you saying people can just go and sin all we want now because of grace?" ..if no one says that - then you are not preaching the gospel of the grace of Christ.
No one is saying to go out and sin all you want now because of grace but people should be accusing you of saying that if you are really preaching the same gospel that Paul preached.
He was continuously slandered with this same accusation. In 4x times alone in Romans Paul had to come against those that were accusing Paul of being antinomian.
The grace of God teaches us how to live godly in this present world as Titus 2:11-12 shows.
Sin is stupid and against our new nature in Christ which is created in righteousness and holiness. Sin is deceitful and will destroy us on this earth as well as those we love and ruins our witness for the Lord.
But sins of the flesh does not take away our eternal life in Christ. Our spirit is safe in Christ because we are in Him and it is His finished work that brings eternal salvation to us.
Make no mistake about it..the gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous.
Hey Stephen, mind telling me why you are asking me a question about something I did not say? Your attitude is off, as usual. I hope you got pricked good while waiting
i love that soing..[video=youtube;zZWoR5Y1iMI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZWoR5Y1iMI[/video]how are you sister
AMEN...and I knew when I had seen what Jimmy said about Bill, that it would cut like a knife and cause wounds.....and my post about his character in saying such a thing (to quote the English or the Aussies) was SPOT ON......
You just do not cut someone like that who is having difficulties already and then they have the guts to openly post it, and then get hammered in such a heartless way....
You just do not cut someone like that who is having difficulties already and then they have the guts to openly post it, and then get hammered in such a heartless way....