Not By Works

[miknik5]

Lol. I have no vitriol towards you, in fact the opposite.
Why are you so scared to put your points? Did you fail to finish the bible school, and
are just compromised?

I should be a push over, if your enthusiasm represented the strength of your doctrine.

You do know I love Jesus and He is my Lord and saviour. I have been witnessing and
bringing people to Christ over 40 years now, so I do wonder at your hesitancy to actually
be open and honest about your faith position. I am open with mine, everyday, why are
you so shy?

If the Lord showed you a new way through, a way of healing and resolution, would you
not want it? I know there is so much hesitancy, and defence, there is something very big
for you that is too hard to face. But you know because you push me, the Lord will just
gently ask you why? Do you not want resolution and healing David?

You have brought people to CHRIST for 40 years?

be careful of that statement

if the Lord showed us a new way
would we not want resolution and healing?


what do we have already?

 

[miknik5]

I remember being accused of sinning all the time. So I asked what sin.
Silence. Then it was disagreeing over beliefs, or how you interpret them.

Now sin is a serious crime, which can be taken to court with evidence.
It is not a mistake, or accident, or outburst. It is intentional action that
has caused damage within the catagories of the commandments.

Now every believer should know this, yet a class of believers have arisen who
claim not to follow the law, but want to condemn anyone they can find who has
broken their own invented version of the law.

How do I know this? Because they started with the line, the easy commandments, the
10 commandments we all keep, but not 24/7 or the deeper issues in the soul.

Now as time went by, the 10 commandments were listed and actually they were lying.
They were breaking the 10 commandments and it was this sin they could not stop.
They said every day they had this problem.

Now anyone who is this ignorant of sin and righteousness, love and salvation, I would
question do they know the Lord, or it is just something they assume.

Dig a bit deeper, fear is evil, anger is evil, having more than one wife is evil.
So actually a non-biblical morality has been built up and just accepted, and then forced
into the open to condemn other believers but falsely.

They are victims of their beliefs, because no one questions or tests the heresies and
shows them for what they are, so they are so self possessed it is their mission to root out
the legalists and lying hypocrites who claim to walk righteously in the Lord.

They need our prayers and sympathy, because over time, some will come to their senses.
But also they need to be confronted and shown the error of their beliefs, which are now so
ingrained they talk as if scripture agrees with them when clearly it does not.

That's not true
in fact David and Paul both knew that there were hidden sins that we aren't even aware of

it's why Paul said what he said in 1 Corinthians 4 and why David said a man can not know his errors..keep me from my hidden faults (psalm 19)

 

[miknik5]

Peter jens

Read romans 7

and concentrate on this:

sin workiing death in me

mortality has to be swallowed up in immortality


do you understand this?

it isnt so much that we are (by our flesh) doing an active work
its not
This "crucifying the deeds of the flesh" is more a passive work
its very easy to have faith when we are not faced with trials and temptations

But another thing completely when we are tested

We're to be still in all seasons. To trust in him in seasons of sunshine and in seasons of rain
its hard this stilling the flesh which wars against our soul (being still and knowing that HE is GOD..when we are weak than we are strong...HE must increase, we must decrease.. this filling up in our flesh what is lacking according to the afflictions of CHRIST

ir isn't going out and ansssimg to ourselves righteous works
it is foung whst is right and good and pleasing to the LORD in all seasons at all times in all situations and circumstances and before all men

Don't assume that those who won't profess their works (or even claim their righteousness apart from CHRIST) are taking THE GIFT of GOD as a license to sin or that they are sitting on the sidelines and are lazy servants

 

[royalscot]

the Mystery of Israel's Salvation
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
"The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
27 "and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."
28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience,31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!
34 "For who has known the mind of the Lord,
or who has been his counselor?"
35 "Or who has given a gift to him
that he might be repaid?"
36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.Romans 11:

 

[royalscot]

35 "Or who has given a gift to him
that he might be repaid?"



2 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

 

[PeterJens]

God is not worried about rebellion we do not know about but that we do know and refuse to resolve.

We are creatures who cope one thing at a time, and build up a wealth of experience.

We are changed by our walk on the foundation of Christ. At the end of the walk the work is complete,
though all the while we were yoked to Him, brothers in Gods work. The strange contradiction is we
are saved by abiding and communion but the communion is always change. Our words find it hard to
grasp the way, but in praise, in worship and in love we bring glory to His name in all that we do.

How? Because we are pure, cleansed, holy vessels of the Holy Spirit and of grace.

 

[PeterJens]

Peter jens

Read romans 7

and concentrate on this:

sin workiing death in me

mortality has to be swallowed up in immortality


do you understand this?

it isnt so much that we are (by our flesh) doing an active work
its not
This "crucifying the deeds of the flesh" is more a passive work
its very easy to have faith when we are not faced with trials and temptations

But another thing completely when we are tested

We're to be still in all seasons. To trust in him in seasons of sunshine and in seasons of rain
its hard this stilling the flesh which wars against our soul (being still and knowing that HE is GOD..when we are weak than we are strong...HE must increase, we must decrease.. this filling up in our flesh what is lacking according to the afflictions of CHRIST

ir isn't going out and ansssimg to ourselves righteous works
it is foung whst is right and good and pleasing to the LORD in all seasons at all times in all situations and circumstances and before all men

Don't assume that those who won't profess their works (or even claim their righteousness apart from CHRIST) are taking THE GIFT of GOD as a license to sin or that they are sitting on the sidelines and are lazy servants

Thanks for this. I assume nothing, but that God is at work in the elect and to them I share.
One issue you may not have grasped, we love all, but can all help the elect, for all else is
lost.

You say crucifying the deeds of the flesh is passive ???? Paul would say you sow to the
Spirit, and not to the flesh, so ignoring ones passions, filling your time with good things
may be a better description. There is a never a lack of things to do, lol.

 

[dcontroversal]

35 "Or who has given a gift to him
that he might be repaid?"



2 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

AMEN.....many skip right over that last verse..............

 

[miknik5]

Thanks for this. I assume nothing, but that God is at work in the elect and to them I share.
One issue you may not have grasped, we love all, but can all help the elect, for all else is
lost.

You say crucifying the deeds of the flesh is passive ???? Paul would say you sow to the
Spirit, and not to the flesh, so ignoring ones passions, filling your time with good things
may be a better description. There is a never a lack of things to do, lol.

It's passive.

Not by power or by might
but by HIS SPIRIT

Try getting in the way of GOD's WORK

 

[miknik5]

Thanks for this. I assume nothing, but that God is at work in the elect and to them I share.
One issue you may not have grasped, we love all, but can all help the elect, for all else is
lost.

You say crucifying the deeds of the flesh is passive ???? Paul would say you sow to the
Spirit, and not to the flesh, so ignoring ones passions, filling your time with good things
may be a better description. There is a never a lack of things to do, lol.

What you have described are things that everyone should normally know based on good judgement what is good to do abd what is not good to do

 

[Meggido]

It's passive.

Not by power or by might
but by HIS SPIRIT

Try getting in the way of GOD's WORK

This verse, [Zechariah 4.6] has to do with Zerubbabel rebuilding the temple and the word of the Lord was saying he will not rebuild the temple by money, political power, or other earthly ways...not the Spirit at work in new believers, right?


The Spirit's work in our spiritual maturing[not salvation]relies on our active part...not just us sitting there and expecting him to passively do all the work...We work in cooperation with the Spirit to crucify the flesh by renewing our minds to the Word of God...

The Holy Spirit does nothing passively, he works in cooperation with you and if you sit there thinking WOW, he is completing this great work in me, and you are gliding along with no trials, etc, then you better check the hand you are holding, because it is not the Holy Spirit, or Jesus's.....If you do not seek his cooperation he is not going to force himself on you...

This is in terms of growing spiritually after salvation...Covenant relationship after salvation requires your part...nobody likes that, but its true...the Bible teaches it all over the place...

Suggesting the Holy Spirit works passively in a believer takes away your part....and that is renewing your mind to the word of God..

 

[Meggido]

What you have described are things that everyone should normally know based on good judgement what is good to do abd what is not good to do

and you just described working for it on your own terms....

 

[dcontroversal]

and you just described working for it on your own terms....

I fail to understand how people cannot see that any fruit or work produced is the result of the VINE (ROOTS) and that the BRANCHES produce NOTHING unless supported, nourished and supplied by the VINE which they are ATTACHED TO......it is ALL JESUS through us as a LIVING sacrifice......ONE must have faith and already be SAVED to bring forth fruit or works.....the bible is clear.....

 

[Meggido]

I fail to understand how people cannot see that any fruit or work produced is the result of the VINE (ROOTS) and that the BRANCHES produce NOTHING unless supported, nourished and supplied by the VINE which they are ATTACHED TO......it is ALL JESUS through us as a LIVING sacrifice......ONE must have faith and already be SAVED to bring forth fruit or works.....the bible is clear.....

So who/ what is John 15 referring to about the branches that bear no fruit and are cast away and burned?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I fail to understand how people cannot see that any fruit or work produced is the result of the VINE (ROOTS) and that the BRANCHES produce NOTHING unless supported, nourished and supplied by the VINE which they are ATTACHED TO......it is ALL JESUS through us as a LIVING sacrifice......ONE must have faith and already be SAVED to bring forth fruit or works.....the bible is clear.....

I am sitting here running a generator test, And looking at all these trees around me, After reading your post. I tried to envision how many branches on those trees who wanted of their free will to rip themselves off the main root which supplies it with nutrients to survive and produces the fruit they were created for..

Then I try to imagine how they have the power to rip themselves away, and am dumbfounded..

 

[dcontroversal]

So who/ what is John 15 referring to about the branches that bear no fruit and are cast away and burned?

My view......he is not speaking of one losing salvation, but making a comparison to a physical reality......and last time I checked......those who have works of wood, hay and stubble will pass through the fire, have their works burnt yet they themselves are still saved......

AND POINT to be made.....we take trees that produce or are producing and TRIM dead branches off the tree all the time and yet the tree is sill alive and producing....same is true with Christ....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My view......he is not speaking of one losing salvation, but making a comparison to a physical reality......and last time I checked......those who have works of wood, hay and stubble will pass through the fire, have their works burnt yet they themselves are still saved......

AND POINT to be made.....we take trees that produce or are producing and TRIM dead branches off the tree all the time and yet the tree is sill alive and producing....same is true with Christ....

Think word usage,

I am the vine

YOU are the branches

If THEY do not abide he is cast out (as apposed to I or YOU)

He did not say if you do not abide in me, You will be cut off and cast into the fire, He said if THEY....

 

[dcontroversal]

I am sitting here running a generator test, And looking at all these trees around me, After reading your post. I tried to envision how many branches on those trees who wanted of their free will to rip themselves off the main root which supplies it with nutrients to survive and produces the fruit they were created for..

Then I try to imagine how they have the power to rip themselves away, and am dumbfounded..

I know and a good point to ponder about that tree.....On occasion I have taken a bush or tree that is alive yet supporting dead and or dying branches....I then PRUNE the branches just like the "sucker" vines on tomato plants to get them to produce bigger and better fruit.....to say John 15 speaks of losing salvation is a stretch in my mind....every man's work will be tried by fire...some, yea many saved will have works of wood, hay and stubble that will be burnt to a crisp yet they themselves will still be saved.....

 

[blue_ladybug]

What about the ones who literally CANNOT do good works, for one reason or another?

 

[Meggido]

My view......he is not speaking of one losing salvation, but making a comparison to a physical reality......and last time I checked......those who have works of wood, hay and stubble will pass through the fire, have their works burnt yet they themselves are still saved......

The verses preceding the branch being removed talks about the branch abiding, and getting what you described, not their fruit/works....John 15.8 says bearing fruit proves you to be a disciple to Father....

John 15 says a branch that does not abide and without fruit/works is cast away and burned, not a branch that has works/fruits and those get burned away....

Works are tested by fire, but a branch that has no works is cast way and dried and burned....

I see a big difference here....