Page 979 of 1041 FirstFirst ... 4798799299699779789799809819891029 ... LastLast
Results 19,561 to 19,580 of 20810
Like Tree26593Likes

Bible Discussion Forum

Ask (or answer) Bible questions here. Join or start a Bible discussion now!

Thread: Not By Works

  1. #19561
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 12th, 2017
    Age
    53
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    50

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post

    Nope. this is not the greatest command,

    The greatest commandment Jesus ever gave is this, That you should love the lord you God with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul, and the second is like it, That you should love your neighbor as yourself (the question is who is your neighbor)


    Matthew 22:36-40
    “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[e] 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”...



    If we do those to. the "Go" commands will be automatically fulfilled.

    If we make the go commands a law. of do this or else. We are not working out of love, we are working out of requirement, or performance based action which we either expect to receive something in return, even if that something in return is lack of punishment, It is still for self gain, not out of love

    As scripture says, if we have all things, but have not love, we are useless.
    Agreed,
    I actually assume people know that to GO and MAKE you have to have a Christ like love walk...I said greatest commands about works...probably did not word that right....

    The only true motivation for making disciples is love....

  2. #19562
    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2011
    Age
    52
    Posts
    43,775
    Rep Power
    212

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    Are you not made a son instantly at conversion?

    People stay at the cross of conversion, because they are not taught its not about them anymore.....

    A kingdom is not about the individual, it is about the king and how to expand the kingdom....

    One of the greatest lie's Satan has sold the church is that, your walk is all about you and only how you work it out....nothing and nobody else matters....people grief me all the time for this, but if you put on Holy Spirit Glasses, the modern day church in the USA is all about consumer Christians taking what they need and the church not depositing....
    now this I agree this new age thinking is just as dangerous as legalism.. And is doing nothing but leading people to religion, Not God.
    dcontroversal likes this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  3. #19563
    Senior Member stonesoffire's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 24th, 2013
    Age
    70
    Posts
    3,227
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    69

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post

    his body will? I am not sure what you mean sis?
    finally it worked...you said fulfill the law and prophets. The word is hang. The two commandments hang upon the law and the prophets. Not fulfill.
    Jeepers Creepers...we gotta get new peepers.

    Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

  4. #19564
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 12th, 2017
    Age
    53
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    50

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    I can't do reply and quote now...so Meggido...

    We aren't born again as a full grown mature Son of God. Or are we?
    nope but you are made a son or daughter at conversion, right?

    I am my mothers son, from conception....

  5. #19565
    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2011
    Age
    52
    Posts
    43,775
    Rep Power
    212

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    Mat 22:40  All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commandments.

    Is this the scripture in your mind EG?
    yes sis, I posted it a few posts ago,

    but here it is again,

    Matt: 22: 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[d] 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[e] 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  6. #19566
    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2011
    Age
    52
    Posts
    43,775
    Rep Power
    212

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    EG

    Where have I said anything about doing any works? I said works are the Spirits involvement with our life growing us up into the fullness.

    Works of the Spirit within. We cooperate by faith. Move with Him.
    can you show me what you are responding too I am not sure where I said this..
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  7. #19567
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 12th, 2013
    Age
    50
    Posts
    22,330
    Blog Entries
    5
    Rep Power
    188

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    Agreed,
    I actually assume people know that to GO and MAKE you have to have a Christ like love walk...I said greatest commands about works...probably did not word that right....

    The only true motivation for making disciples is love....
    Really, even broken down further it is an imperative command.....literally...not GO, but as you are going MAKE.......and this is seen in our daily lives....as we go about ur business and the opportunities arise (by God drawing people to us) we witness and make disciples....obviously we ourselves do not MAKE anyone anything...the increase is of GOD.....just think...by modern standards NOAH was a complete failure....he preached 120 years and won how many to the truth....0!

  8. #19568
    Senior Member stonesoffire's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 24th, 2013
    Age
    70
    Posts
    3,227
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    69

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Why would it not be both Meggido? Discipling others and advancing in Kingdom living.

    I don't know what new age teaches but is not Sonship, am sure.
    Jeepers Creepers...we gotta get new peepers.

    Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

  9. #19569
    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2011
    Age
    52
    Posts
    43,775
    Rep Power
    212

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    Agreed,
    I actually assume people know that to GO and MAKE you have to have a Christ like love walk...I said greatest commands about works...probably did not word that right....

    The only true motivation for making disciples is love....
    yes! and anything you do out of the love of God is a work of righteousness (or as was asked earlier, this is what a true work of God is) ..

    Any thing you do out of self gain is a work of self righteousness. (also known as a work of the flesh)

    Love is what separates the two.

    a non believer can not do a work of love, because they do ot have the capacity, they can do the deed, but it would not be a work of righteousness.

    dcontroversal and Grace777x70 like this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  10. #19570
    Senior Member BillG's Avatar
    Join Date
    February 15th, 2017
    Age
    49
    Posts
    2,045
    Rep Power
    88

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    Depending on where we are in faith...might define works differently Bill.

    Not sure though. Would like Meggido or Grace to address this. I know what I believe works are but might not be what others think.

    Do you have a definition of works Bill?
    I wouldn't say I have a definition as such.

    what I have found it is easy to separate works as one defines them and focus on that.

    What I mean by that is that I know of people who focus on works being don't do wrong.
    By that I mean they focus on the things mentioned in Corinthians/Ephesians and Galatians.
    So in a sense it's don't drink don't smoke what do you do.
    So good works are crucifying the flesh.

    Then on the other side I have seen people know they sin but it's not a big issue? Oh well I'm a sinner, God knows I will sin and he will forgive me. I'm not saying they have no regard to their sin (though I have met a few like that), but there tends to be a tendency to focus on the good things they do, like tithe and occasionally help others out.

    I know the above is a bit broad brush as such and I want everyone reading this to know that I am not singling anyone out here.
    I don't know any of you personally so I cannot say anything about anyone here.

    Here are my thoughts.

    Firstly works do not save a person. Works are a result of salvation. Some mature quicker that others.
    There is no linear fashion or a constant learning curve that leads to maturity.
    All are different, hurts, experiences of life, pain, and the like are things that can stunt and block maturity along with things like unforgiveness.

    One simple example for me is that my mum made it clear I was a useless piece of crap who ruined her life and she only kept me because she had to (until I was 14 and through me out) Now that stunted me big time because that was how I thought God felt about me. So that life experience along with beatings for not complying and no beatings if I complied were ingrained so that's how I felt God saw me but also others.

    So to me as of today what would I say works are.

    We are called to do good works, works that I would say are pleasing to God.

    There I have said it there are works that are pleasing to God and to me these works are encompassed in the following.

    John 6:29


    29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

    Any works we do that are pleasing to God are as a result of placing faith in Jesus, if there is no faith then our works are like filthy rags and to me are an abuse of the cross.

    Then I would say that the works we are to do are summed up in the following.

    Matthew 22:37-40


    37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

    To me waking in the first commandment should allow us to decrease and Jesus increase. That being the case sin should decrease and fruit in increase (i.e. Self control here)

    As fruit increases then we walk in the second commandment.

    The focus then is always on God and others and not us.
    Thats why we have the Holy Spirit in us, to help us and guide us and manifest Jesus in us.
    Our focus should always be orientated that way.

    Sorry for the long post but you did ask

    Finally I would like to say that I do feel we should not judge maturity and growth in people.
    I do think people need healing in order to mature and the biggy for me is accepting Gods forgiveness and forgiving others.

    When Jesus separated the sheep and the goats the sheep are received into the kingdom of heaven.

    Matthew 25:35-40
    35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’


    37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

    They did it for Jesus
    Lord

    Help me to be the person my dog thinks I am.

  11. #19571
    Senior Member BeyondET's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 4th, 2016
    Age
    49
    Posts
    5,938
    Rep Power
    68

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Did someone say spirit glasses. lol

    JIMBO43 and Rosemaryx like this.

  12. #19572
    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2011
    Age
    52
    Posts
    43,775
    Rep Power
    212

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    finally it worked...you said fulfill the law and prophets. The word is hang. The two commandments hang upon the law and the prophets. Not fulfill.

    No, the word said "hang all the law and prophets", They hang on those two commands,

    if we could love perfectly, we would fulfill the law and prophets, We can not, because we can not love perfectly. We still war with the flesh.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  13. #19573
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 12th, 2017
    Age
    53
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    50

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    I agree in principle that all of us are to be a living epistle of the grace and love of God for others however even in the letter to Corinthians in context one can see that Paul and Timothy were saying "things" to the church there and that they were the ministers. Not every one is a "sent one" as in an apostle like Paul and Timothy.

    2 Corinthians 1:1 (NASB)
    1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God which is at Corinth with all the saints who are throughout Achaia:


    1 Corinthians 12:4-6 (NASB)
    4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.

    5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.

    6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.

    1 Corinthians 12:14-16 (NASB)
    14 For the body is not one member, but many.

    15 If the foot says, "Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.

    16 And if the ear says, "Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.

    1 Corinthians 12:28-29 (NASB)
    28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

    29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?


    Opps...it looks like I spelled your name wrong in my original post...sorry. I have no reference point when I posted Mediggo and got it backwards. Meggido....

    What does your name mean?
    The proper spelling is Megiddo and that was taken when I signed up, so I changed the spelling...Tel Megiddo is an actual place conquered by Joshua and many believe it will be the site of the Battle of Armageddon during the day of the Lord. The greek word armageddon means hill of Megiddo.

  14. #19574
    Senior Member stonesoffire's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 24th, 2013
    Age
    70
    Posts
    3,227
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    69

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post

    No, the word said "hang all the law and prophets", They hang on those two commands,

    if we could love perfectly, we would fulfill the law and prophets, We can not, because we can not love perfectly. We still war with the flesh.
    My personal thinking about this is that the new commandment..to love others as He has loved us is the law that is needed for the body of Christ because of offenses. And is the way that we endure.

    Love is not just an emotion but the embodiment of God Himself. He is truth...He is Light...He is love. He can love others through us and am not speaking of our emotions expressing in any way towards others, but His actual love flowing through us to touch others. Sort of like releasing it.

    It's not ours...but His. Nothing to boast of in any way...just in Him and His Works.
    Jeepers Creepers...we gotta get new peepers.

    Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

  15. #19575
    Senior Member stonesoffire's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 24th, 2013
    Age
    70
    Posts
    3,227
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    69

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post

    No, the word said "hang all the law and prophets", They hang on those two commands,

    if we could love perfectly, we would fulfill the law and prophets, We can not, because we can not love perfectly. We still war with the flesh.
    EG

    I say this with love and compassion. I warred this way too with my flesh. And I grew tired plus unsuccessful. Just reckon it dead...daily. Declare it is dead for we are dead to sin and alive to God.

    This is what Paul found too...when we concentrate on a battle...we will have a battle. Just stop and die with His Word for you.

    We are resurrected with Him now. Walk in His life.
    Jeepers Creepers...we gotta get new peepers.

    Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

  16. #19576
    Senior Member BeyondET's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 4th, 2016
    Age
    49
    Posts
    5,938
    Rep Power
    68

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post

    No, the word said "hang all the law and prophets", They hang on those two commands,

    if we could love perfectly, we would fulfill the law and prophets, We can not, because we can not love perfectly. We still war with the flesh.
    speaking just on what you mentioned about the laws and prophets, it's intersting how Jesus said it, all the laws and prophets hang on these two commandments.

    1.Surely Jesus loves the Father,
    2.Jesus said while "hanging" on the cross, God forgive them (neighbors) for they know not what they do,

  17. #19577
    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2011
    Age
    52
    Posts
    43,775
    Rep Power
    212

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    My personal thinking about this is that the new commandment..to love others as He has loved us is the law that is needed for the body of Christ because of offenses. And is the way that we endure.

    Love is not just an emotion but the embodiment of God Himself. He is truth...He is Light...He is love. He can love others through us and am not speaking of our emotions expressing in any way towards others, but His actual love flowing through us to touch others. Sort of like releasing it.

    It's not ours...but His. Nothing to boast of in any way...just in Him and His Works.
    I think jesus was trying to correct their thinking

    the way to fulfill the law is not to try to keep commands, (think of the sermon on the mount, where if we even look at a lady with lust etc) it is about loving others.


    seeking after the things of the spirit, is looking to everyone around you, and seeing who you can love and serve in jesus name.

    do this, you wil not break the law.

    Do not do this, and you risk serving self, which is sin.

    the problem is, unless we are super mature,, and honestly not even then, they can just do it better and for longer periods of time, but definitely not as a babe in Christ, we can not love 24/7. So we will not be sinless.
    stonesoffire and BillG like this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  18. #19578
    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2011
    Age
    52
    Posts
    43,775
    Rep Power
    212

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by stonesoffire View Post
    EG

    I say this with love and compassion. I warred this way too with my flesh. And I grew tired plus unsuccessful. Just reckon it dead...daily. Declare it is dead for we are dead to sin and alive to God.

    This is what Paul found too...when we concentrate on a battle...we will have a battle. Just stop and die with His Word for you.

    We are resurrected with Him now. Walk in His life.

    I agree with you

    We do this when we love others, We take our focus off self. and the the worry about self and who will take care of me fades, Just give it to God, and serve others.

    That is what the two commands are for. to focus on others, and not on self.

    Does this make sense? I hope I am not confusing you, I think we are saying the same.
    stonesoffire likes this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  19. #19579
    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2011
    Age
    52
    Posts
    43,775
    Rep Power
    212

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by BeyondET View Post
    speaking just on what you mentioned about the laws and prophets, it's intersting how Jesus said it, all the laws and prophets hang on these two commandments.

    1.Surely Jesus loves the Father,
    2.Jesus said while "hanging" on the cross, God forgive them (neighbors) for they know not what they do,
    that is the intercessor at work.. he is at the right hand of the father doing that right now.. And that is true love, and how we should love others.
    BeyondET likes this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  20. #19580
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 12th, 2017
    Age
    53
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    50

    Default Re: Not By Works

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Really, even broken down further it is an imperative command.....literally...not GO, but as you are going MAKE.......and this is seen in our daily lives....as we go about ur business and the opportunities arise (by God drawing people to us) we witness and make disciples....obviously we ourselves do not MAKE anyone anything...the increase is of GOD.....just think...by modern standards NOAH was a complete failure....he preached 120 years and won how many to the truth....0!
    I concur with you here....

    I also believe the church has lost sight of this imperative.....that is my main beef....

    Intentional and deliberate discipleship, which teaches, matures, and equips people in the church like Jesus did, looks like what?

    We have entirely too much teaching and worship songs about everything being God's responsibility, but thank you Jesus for mine....

    Now think about my last sentence before you rush in and make a judgement....


    When we have people that know the lyrics of every Hillsong worship chorus, know Beth Moore latest teaching, go to all the conferences, watch nothing but Christian TV.....but cannot hear the voice of the Spirit to move on the broken and beaten when they see them....

    Houston we have a problem....

Similar Threads

  1. Salvation is Definitely By Works -- God's Works, not Man's
    By Atwood in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: January 8th, 2015, 07:37 PM
  2. The Christian Has Good Works; Jonathan Edwards on Works
    By Atwood in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: October 11th, 2014, 03:51 AM
  3. Works Not Possible Without Salvation (Good Works, that is)
    By Atwood in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: May 10th, 2014, 12:48 AM
  4. Replies: 598
    Last Post: August 10th, 2013, 06:54 PM
  5. works of the flesh contrasted with works of the Spirit
    By 1still_waters in forum Christian Singles Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: February 22nd, 2011, 08:02 PM