Not By Works

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May 12, 2017
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I go for what has been given.....just simply grace....... ;)
Is this avoiding the truth of Jude?

For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.....

Any teaching that states the grace of God allows you to live an immoral life and elevates grace above Jesus Christ is not grace....

I heard a low level Pastor from a very well know international ministry state that God gift of Grace is greater than the Gift of his son and everyone clapped and hooted and hollered and said...preach that...bring it and had no idea what they were saying...
 
May 12, 2017
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No such thing,, A liscentious person thinks they have earned salvation too. By saying a prayer and they earned the right to live however they want.

Are you also avoiding the truth of Jude 4?

For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Are you also avoiding the truth of Jude 4?

For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
No EG has said those folks aren't saved and are wolves in sheep's clothing.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Is this avoiding the truth of Jude?

For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.....

Any teaching that states the grace of God allows you to live an immoral life and elevates grace above Jesus Christ is not grace....

I heard a low level Pastor from a very well know international ministry state that God gift of Grace is greater than the Gift of his son and everyone clapped and hooted and hollered and said...preach that...bring it and had no idea what they were saying...
What false teachers do has no bearing on my point....the simple grace of God is what I was speaking to...not the corrupted version by false teachers......and nobody I know teaches your bolded version.....shall we continue in sin that grace may abound.....the answer was clear....GOD forbid!

And if you notice...they turn the grace of God into something that does not equal the grace of God......
 
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May 12, 2017
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No EG has said those folks aren't saved and are wolves in sheep's clothing.
This is not a salvation issue in the least, burying heads in the sand instead of correctly admitting that Grace can become corrupted shows poor scholarship of the word...something I expect better from both of them....
 
May 12, 2017
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What false teachers do has no bearing on my point....the simple grace of God is what I was speaking to...not the corrupted version by false teachers......and nobody I know teaches your bolded version.....shall we continue in sin that grace may abound.....the answer was clear....GOD forbid!

And if you notice...they turn the grace of God into something that does not equal the grace of God......

You seem to miss the entire point of the admonishment to the church to here....that is to be on the look out, because those that turn the grace of God into something that does not equal the grace of God, do so very covertly.....for you to make an absolute statement that you never heard it taught means you are either very blessed or it has slipped in unaware, just as the scripture says it will......we are always seeing this try to raise it's ugly head and quickly put it down and the people end up leaving...
 
Dec 12, 2013
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You seem to miss the entire point of the admonishment to the church to here....that is to be on the look out, because those that turn the grace of God into something that does not equal the grace of God, do so very covertly.....for you to make an absolute statement that you never heard it taught means you are either very blessed or it has slipped in unaware, just as the scripture says it will......we are always seeing this try to raise it's ugly head and quickly put it down and the people end up leaving...
Couple of points man....

a. Quit assuming I miss anything just because I do not write 30 paragraphs on JUDE to respond to one point
b. The call to contend for the faith is because of false teachers who will creep in (we have none that teach such foolishness)
c. The false teachers are compared to 3 false teachers....Cain-->works, Balaam-->for money, Korah-->Usurping those called to lead
d. I am a Marine and a believer....bro...I am fully on guard concerning the word and those who corrupt it..... ;)
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
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Dcon - I go for what has been given.....just simply grace....... ;)

I love the true gospel of grace as well, but there are those who distort the true gospel. On here we keep hearing about those who work for salvation, but there's another side to the coin. Extreme grace which is a distortion of true grace will lead to licentiousness.


EG - No such thing,, A liscentious person thinks they have earned salvation too. By saying a prayer and they earned the right to live however they want.


Sure there is such a thing. The gospel is distorted every day of the week 24/7.

One extreme is idolatry of works that can lead to exchanging the gospel of grace to a gospel of law and the other extreme is idolatry of grace that can lead to exchanging the true grace of God to be a gospel of licentiousness.
 
May 12, 2017
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I love the true gospel of grace as well, but there are those who distort the true gospel. On here we keep hearing about those who work for salvation, but there's another side to the coin. Extreme grace which is a distortion of true grace will lead to licentiousness.




[/B]Sure there is such a thing. The gospel is distorted every day of the week 24/7.

One extreme is idolatry of works that can lead to exchanging the gospel of grace to a gospel of law and the other extreme is idolatry of grace that can lead to exchanging the true grace of God to be a gospel of licentiousness.
It is proven fact, that when an absolute statement is made that something is not, it usually is and has been, and the person has no idea that it is and has been....

I hate to say this, but there are certain posters here that seem to be flirting very closely with universalism theology and have no clue they are giving that perception....
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Is this avoiding the truth of Jude?

For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.....

Any teaching that states the grace of God allows you to live an immoral life and elevates grace above Jesus Christ is not grace....

I heard a low level Pastor from a very well know international ministry state that God gift of Grace is greater than the Gift of his son and everyone clapped and hooted and hollered and said...preach that...bring it and had no idea what they were saying...
I think the gift of grace (whilst a gift I would also say that it is intrinsic of Gods nature) is given freely through Jesus death.
I would also say that if it is intrinsic to the nature of God then it is given to the whole of mankind whether believers or not.

What I mean by this is that if God were to exact on this world the punishment due for sin he would have wiped it out when Adam sinned.

But we know he is patient and wants no one to be separated from him.

Its because of that we have the gift of grace because of Jesus which is the forgiveness of sins.

I think Jude was written to believers to warn them that there will be people who come in and will distort true grace.
Be on guard because these people will come in and a sense God knows they will come in because have already been marked for condemnation.


Jude 1:16-22
Apostates Predicted
16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage.
17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ:
18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts.
19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
Maintain Your Life with God
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;
23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

A true believer will not abuse the grace of God and use it as an excuse to sin.

The gospel of preached correctly concerning grace covers our sins can in fact lead to an attitude that I can sin all I want.
Paul addressed this Romans.

Having corrected that he addresses the true purpose of grace.

To be honest I would be like Paul.

Although I do have to say that I am not aware of anyone here falling foul of what Paul had to address.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Is this avoiding the truth of Jude?

For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.....

Any teaching that states the grace of God allows you to live an immoral life and elevates grace above Jesus Christ is not grace....

I heard a low level Pastor from a very well know international ministry state that God gift of Grace is greater than the Gift of his son and everyone clapped and hooted and hollered and said...preach that...bring it and had no idea what they were saying...
To me a liscentiousness gospel is saying one can say a prayer, and he is saved eternally, no matter what. Now you're u can live you life any way you want, so let's go eat drink and be merry and have all kinds of sex orgies, and (you get the picture) there is no fruit of repentance, and no works, so the faith was defnately dead.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Are you also avoiding the truth of Jude 4?

For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
did you read what. Said, licentiousness is not grace, it would Bacolod a licenti Us gospel, not licentious grace.

No, I did not ignore Jude, read my last post.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
This is not a salvation issue in the least, burying heads in the sand instead of correctly admitting that Grace can become corrupted shows poor scholarship of the word...something I expect better from both of them....
who said grace can not become corrupted?


It can becom corrupted in licentiousness, and legalism,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You seem to miss the entire point of the admonishment to the church to here....that is to be on the look out, because those that turn the grace of God into something that does not equal the grace of God, do so very covertly.....for you to make an absolute statement that you never heard it taught means you are either very blessed or it has slipped in unaware, just as the scripture says it will......we are always seeing this try to raise it's ugly head and quickly put it down and the people end up leaving...

All i I said is here was no such thing as a licentious grace, and. Stand by it,

turning the grace f God to licentiousness is not a licentious grace, it is no grace at all
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest

I love the true gospel of grace as well, but there are those who distort the true gospel. On here we keep hearing about those who work for salvation, but there's another side to the coin. Extreme grace which is a distortion of true grace will lead to licentiousness.




[/B]Sure there is such a thing. The gospel is distorted every day of the week 24/7.

One extreme is idolatry of works that can lead to exchanging the gospel of grace to a gospel of law and the other extreme is idolatry of grace that can lead to exchanging the true grace of God to be a gospel of licentiousness.
Again, extreme grace is not a valid word, grace is extreme it s hyper, it can not be more free than it already is (except that it was paid for by the cross)

because can make it somethng it is not, but they can not make it more than it already is,

peopl call a works based where we maintain salvation grace, it is not grace either, let's not call something something it is not, let's call it what it is a false gospel

both are based in pride, onsays I need to be a part of my wn salvation and fell. Did my part
yhe other said how dare you think you can tell me what to do, save me, and let me alone
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
My iPad strikes again, I give up sorry some of my posts are unreadable.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Couple of points man....

a. Quit assuming I miss anything just because I do not write 30 paragraphs on JUDE to respond to one point
b. The call to contend for the faith is because of false teachers who will creep in (we have none that teach such foolishness)
c. The false teachers are compared to 3 false teachers....Cain-->works, Balaam-->for money, Korah-->Usurping those called to lead
d. I am a Marine and a believer....bro...I am fully on guard concerning the word and those who corrupt it..... ;)
I suppose none of us who believe works are essential do not guard the word and where the false teachers ?...

I am not a techer or a preacher...

I believe salvation is the final reward for service rendered on all fronts of faith and not faith alone..

All fronts of faith is believing recieving giving loving and obediance all of which are works....

I believe being saved is not recieving salvation but a type of salvation...

I believe in the son and believe he rose from the dead... i believe in the holy spirit.... I believe in the father...


I believe that you can be saved and untill the end and still recieve some sort of punishement for sin that needs to be purified.... nothing unclean can enter the kingdom from being scared to being hard to being jealous to being decietful to being mean to being not caring enough.... Theese are all emotional sins which we all need to grow in and be pure in befor we can enter the kingdom...

God wants us all to be kind... you can not be kind and have bad standards of all the above..... most importantly God wants you to be clean... He likes you to bath your friends feet and your own......

He like you wash befor meals...

He likes you to be a rock of support for freinds and loved ones and im sure you are deep down...... maybe your star quality and why i like you...

To the most impotant Question and can you answer yes no or dont know pls

tell me can you enter his kingdom if you are all the negitives i have mentioned ?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
did you read what. Said, licentiousness is not grace, it would Bacolod a licenti Us gospel, not licentious grace.

No, I did not ignore Jude, read my last post.

This should say "it should be termed a liscentiousness gospel not liscentiousness grace"
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
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So "bearing fruit" is an analogy to "birthing children"?

The fruit we bear is real. It's the character of God ......... we become like Him.

Matthew 13:23
And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”

We have good soil
We bear fruit
That fruit brings forth saved souls
Some bring 100fold into the kingdom
Some bring 60fold into the kingdom
Some bring 30fold into the kingdom
:)

 
Mar 7, 2016
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The fruit we bear is real. It's the character of God ......... we become like Him.

Matthew 13:23
And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”

We have good soil
We bear fruit
That fruit brings forth saved souls
Some bring 100fold into the kingdom
Some bring 60fold into the kingdom
Some bring 30fold into the kingdom
:)

The thing is tho God reconises devorce so how come you dont have that character yet ? :)