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Thread: Did Christ do enough to save us?

  1. #261
    Senior Member PeterJens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by CS1 View Post
    In all by Biblical study I have never heard of one even suggesting that Christ did not do enough to save us. this is actually two topics in one title did Christ do enough to save us YES Bible 101 are we reqired to have faith in HIS work on the Cross yes faith is not what you do faith is what you have in Christ thus Christ did it all now you have to live a life that is unto the one that paid for it. what a joke
    Christ did enough so that anyone who has faith in Him will be saved.

    There is an argument that doing anything in response to Christs work is self righteousness
    and evil, earning ones own salvation, justifying oneself before the Lord.

    Salvation starts when we respond to Christs words, in faith and repentance. These are very
    much actions, not something that just is part of the story.

    Equally obedience and good works are fruit of the very act of being saved.

    The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
    1 John 3:7

    Some are suggesting that doing right things is evil if not done inspired by
    Christ, as if as believers we do right things from self (evil) or from the
    Spirit (good)

    This creates a moral concept of continual sinning or righteousness which is
    not defined in scripture.

    So I am bringing out our response and faith is part of salvation, we cannot subdivide
    and exclude the relationship in the whole glorious communion of salvation and redemption.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

  2. #262
    Senior Member FreeNChrist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Faith is but the empty hand that freely receives from God what God freely gives.

    “How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?”
    Gal 3:3



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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    Christ did enough so that anyone who has faith in Him will be saved.

    There is an argument that doing anything in response to Christs work is self righteousness
    and evil, earning ones own salvation, justifying oneself before the Lord.

    Salvation starts when we respond to Christs words, in faith and repentance. These are very
    much actions, not something that just is part of the story.

    Equally obedience and good works are fruit of the very act of being saved.

    The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
    1 John 3:7

    Some are suggesting that doing right things is evil if not done inspired by
    Christ, as if as believers we do right things from self (evil) or from the
    Spirit (good)

    This creates a moral concept of continual sinning or righteousness which is
    not defined in scripture.

    So I am bringing out our response and faith is part of salvation, we cannot subdivide
    and exclude the relationship in the whole glorious communion of salvation and redemption.
    This creates a bunch of confusion is what it does.

    There is one that is good that is God. Not you. Not me. Just God. One.

    There is one way of Salvation. That is by the work of God. Not by your work. Not by my work. Only Gods Work Saves.


    So when you try to make a list of all the things you must do to be saved you are instantly wrong. You can try to do those things and still fail. You can think you are doing those things and still fail.

    The only One that isn't going to fail is God. So you can either receive the things He is Giving, repentance obedience salvation, or you can keep trying to work for them. One is Victory the other is failure.

    Legalism, in all its forms, will never be the gospel.

  4. #264
    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    I finally read the stupidly titled OP. This is likely the sickest thing I have ever read on here.
    dcontroversal, Billyd and beta like this.
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    I finally read the stupidly titled OP. This is likely the sickest thing I have ever read on here.
    Its what all the legalists generally say. Its good that they bring it to the light so people can see it.
    Willie-T likes this.

  6. #266
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post
    This creates a bunch of confusion is what it does.

    There is one that is good that is God. Not you. Not me. Just God. One.

    There is one way of Salvation. That is by the work of God. Not by your work. Not by my work. Only Gods Work Saves.


    So when you try to make a list of all the things you must do to be saved you are instantly wrong. You can try to do those things and still fail. You can think you are doing those things and still fail.

    The only One that isn't going to fail is God. So you can either receive the things He is Giving, repentance obedience salvation, or you can keep trying to work for them. One is Victory the other is failure.

    Legalism, in all its forms, will never be the gospel.
    Exactly why Galatians chapter 1 and 3 were written.....A gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND, double cursed and no power to save....I.E> Saved by faith, but kept and maintained by works.......!
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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    I finally read the stupidly titled OP. This is likely the sickest thing I have ever read on here.
    Those who know the truth concur.........to say that Jesus did not do enough is as blasphemous as it can be......
    Willie-T likes this.

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    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    'Did Christ do enough to save us? No!' - that's a ridiculous and blasphemous statement.

    You didn't repent and you didn't exercise inherent ability to believe. Christ granted that to all of His.

    Salvation is 100% of God, so either quit practicing Soli Hominis Gloria and Pars Hominis Gloria or actually believe in Christ. Anyone aiding or assisting anything in their salvation gospel (which is no gospel, Galatians 1:8ff) are in fact preaching a false gospel altogether.

    Just like the Judaizers they are perpetually pointing to self while mocking others, telling them they have not 'done enough' which is saying the same lie as the OP; 'Christ didn't do enough'. That is what is happening in this thread by the OP and his proponents of a false gospel.

    It is remarkable to behold that the Christ of God couldn't do it, but, we can (according to the OP). If someone stepped into our church with that heresy he or she would be cast out. Immediately. Or as Paul said 'cut off' (and yes, I know what that means).
    People are offended that God is God.

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    'Did Christ do enough to save us? No!' - that's a ridiculous and blasphemous statement.

    You didn't repent and you didn't exercise inherent ability to believe. Christ granted that to all of His.

    Salvation is 100% of God, so either quit practicing Soli Hominis Gloria and Pars Hominis Gloria or actually believe in Christ. Anyone aiding or assisting anything in their salvation gospel (which is no gospel, Galatians 1:8ff) are in fact preaching a false gospel altogether.

    Just like the Judaizers they are perpetually pointing to self while mocking others, telling them they have not 'done enough' which is saying the same lie as the OP; 'Christ didn't do enough'. That is what is happening in this thread by the OP and his proponents of a false gospel.

    It is remarkable to behold that the Christ of God couldn't do it, but, we can (according to the OP). If someone stepped into our church with that heresy he or she would be cast out. Immediately. Or as Paul said 'cut off' (and yes, I know what that means).
    Amen and those who believe that farce will be cut off one day tragically as well.....as in....Depart from me......I never knew you!

    Those who come before his throne bragging about ALL they have done in HIS NAME.......^ that is ^^^^

    ME, I will come before his throne with my knees already cracked and bowing while pleading the blood, mercy, grace and promises of God based upon the work of Jesus.....!

  10. #270


    CS1
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    Christ did enough so that anyone who has faith in Him will be saved.

    There is an argument that doing anything in response to Christs work is self righteousness
    and evil, earning ones own salvation, justifying oneself before the Lord.

    Salvation starts when we respond to Christs words, in faith and repentance. These are very
    much actions, not something that just is part of the story.

    Equally obedience and good works are fruit of the very act of being saved.

    The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
    1 John 3:7

    Some are suggesting that doing right things is evil if not done inspired by
    Christ, as if as believers we do right things from self (evil) or from the
    Spirit (good)

    This creates a moral concept of continual sinning or righteousness which is
    not defined in scripture.

    So I am bringing out our response and faith is part of salvation, we cannot subdivide
    and exclude the relationship in the whole glorious communion of salvation and redemption.
    The suggestion that in anyway Christ work of salvation is not enough is not an area of Christ orthodoxy. In John Gospel 19:30 Jesus is quoted " When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he "said, Itis finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

    this verb statement means "to bring to a close", "to finish", to end, passed

    dead men do no work If you are not saved your works profit you nothing. The works a saved person does today is in the context of Obedience because one of authority has called you to do it. thinking that what you do gets you saved is wrong thinking . or what you do keeps you saved

    the only thing we are to do is Follow Christ. in the context of following HIM we Obey, Love, work, pray, serve others, preach, etc...




    preacher4truth likes this.
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  11. #271
    Senior Member PeterJens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by CS1 View Post
    The suggestion that in anyway Christ work of salvation is not enough is not an area of Christ orthodoxy. In John Gospel 19:30 Jesus is quoted " When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he "said, Itis finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

    this verb statement means "to bring to a close", "to finish", to end, passed

    dead men do no work If you are not saved your works profit you nothing. The works a saved person does today is in the context of Obedience because one of authority has called you to do it. thinking that what you do gets you saved is wrong thinking . or what you do keeps you saved

    the only thing we are to do is Follow Christ. in the context of following HIM we Obey, Love, work, pray, serve others, preach, etc...
    I am not sure what you are saying. Some suggest coming to faith is more like a calling,
    a bringing of light to which we can but respond. The armenians emphasise the persuasion and
    need for choice and free will. I have met people from both camps in the past.

    It sounds like you believe we are saved and then we know how to walk.

    Even if we are called and brought to new life without our choice, or we are given a choice
    to which we respond without being born again we are not saved. And we are born again
    separately from the act 2000 years ago of Christ dying.

    So that is all I am pointing out. You must be born again is a pretty constant refrain of the
    evangelical church to be saved, which comes after hearing the word, which needs to be
    shared or preached.

    Now this is not a "work" so much as a response, a realisation.

    So I am not sure quite what you are saying, but God bless.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

  12. #272
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    I am not sure what you are saying. Some suggest coming to faith is more like a calling,
    a bringing of light to which we can but respond. The armenians emphasise the persuasion and
    need for choice and free will. I have met people from both camps in the past.

    It sounds like you believe we are saved and then we know how to walk.

    Even if we are called and brought to new life without our choice, or we are given a choice
    to which we respond without being born again we are not saved. And we are born again
    separately from the act 2000 years ago of Christ dying.

    So that is all I am pointing out. You must be born again is a pretty constant refrain of the
    evangelical church to be saved, which comes after hearing the word, which needs to be
    shared or preached.

    Now this is not a "work" so much as a response, a realisation.

    So I am not sure quite what you are saying, but God bless.

    He said what many have said...your premise is wrong....the WORK that Jesus did on our behalf is sufficient!
    Chester and preacher4truth like this.

  13. #273
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    I am not sure what you are saying. Some suggest coming to faith is more like a calling,
    a bringing of light to which we can but respond. The armenians emphasise the persuasion and
    need for choice and free will. I have met people from both camps in the past.

    It sounds like you believe we are saved and then we know how to walk.

    Even if we are called and brought to new life without our choice, or we are given a choice
    to which we respond without being born again we are not saved. And we are born again
    separately from the act 2000 years ago of Christ dying.

    So that is all I am pointing out. You must be born again is a pretty constant refrain of the
    evangelical church to be saved, which comes after hearing the word, which needs to be
    shared or preached.

    Now this is not a "work" so much as a response, a realisation.

    So I am not sure quite what you are saying, but God bless.
    How can this be?
    Even if we are called and brought to new life without our choice, or we are given a choice
    to which we respond without being born again we are not saved.
    It is not possible to be brought to new life without our choice, neither is it possible to respond without being born again.
    Pure foolishness!!
    Silverwings

    All things work together for them who are called acccording to His purpose.
    Romans 8:28


    http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/141127-who-does-god-say-i-am-christ.html#post2773202

  14. #274
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    He said what many have said...your premise is wrong....the WORK that Jesus did on our behalf is sufficient!
    Taking your premise I have already shown that cannot be true.
    We are not saved because Jesus died for us, but because he died for us and we believe in Him
    and so are born again and saved.

    Religious language wants always to put the focus on the most important thing, which Jesus is,
    but without a response and us walking with Him it is all pointless and we are doomed to destruction.

    Jesus Himself knew how critical our response is, and was deeply concerned for Peter after his
    denial of Christ, that his faith would fail.

    A simple analogy is a weather balloon. It takes a weather device high up in the atmosphere.
    Without the balloon, it would not work, but without the device being taken the whole exercise would
    be for no point. So which is most important? Both as a team achieve the objective, without one
    the other fails.

    Maybe this is religious language conditioning, but this is not a difficult concept to bridge.

    I suppose the idea that the response is involved in forgiveness of sins, is the problem, as
    if Jesus's sacrifice was not enough to bring forgiveness of sins and make it all possible.
    Ofcourse Jesus's work was complete and sufficient to bring the possibility of the forgiveness
    of sins for all, but it cannot be applied unless we step up.

    I would hope this distinction is not too difficult to make, as we all share the same beliefs,
    at least in this regard.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    This is a key question. Did Christ do enough to save us?
    No.

    We have to
    1. Repent of our sins
    2. Believe on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins
    3. Follow Jesus
    4. Obey Jesus's commands
    5. Dwell in Gods word
    6. Walk in the Spirit, in communion with God

    Now you could add to this list or expand each item.

    Some say Christ has done enough, and we need to do nothing but believe.

    Jesus describes himself as the Shepherd.

    I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
    John 10:11

    Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
    Matt 7:13-14

    We are called to follow, to follow the road that leads to life.
    If you are following, it takes effort and you are doing actual work.

    Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
    Matt 11:28-30

    A yoke is about being alongside another and taking their road and learning how to
    walk it.

    All of the above implies Christ has laid the way to salvation, but we have to walk it
    to follow, to put effort in, to choose, to make decisions and fight the good fight.

    So it is hard to believe people who say they know scripture, yet claim they
    need do nothing and Christ has done it all, it is just resting and reaping.

    This is just heresy.
    I DO understand what you are saying, peter, and I understand why you are saying it, but I think you have phrased it a bit unfortunately...

    I think...your main objection is the idea that Jesus died so that I can live forever. This idea doesn't sit right with me either.
    Jesus died so that I could approach God.
    It doesn't end there.
    In fact, that we would live forever was not Gods' goal. If that were the case, He could have just not guarded the way to the tree of life in the garden.

    In fact, He closed off the way to the tree of life so we would not live forever in our fallen condition.

    I think maybe your objection is...well, it's the phrase of "resting in His finished work." Like...I'm saved, that's all. But He is still working. He is working in me. And His work is to present to His Son a bride without spot or wrinkle. And the idea that there is no struggle against sin and that a war isn't being waged in my mind and heart just doesn't seem to fit with my experience.

    But there is a change that comes in our walk which is very difficult to pinpoint and explain. The best I can say is that it's like...the difference between cranking a handle to pull water out of a well by a bucket versus turning on a faucet to get water. But in neither case do we make the water. We are obtaining the water, but never does our effort MAKE the water that keeps us alive.

    Maybe someone who understands and has experienced this change will be able to explain it better than me.

    I THINK that you have begun to experience this and can understand what I am trying to explain, because you said the other day that you were reading your bible and suddenly began to see so much that you had never seen before, even though you were reading the same words. So it's as if you were pulling up water by effort before but suddenly a tap turned on and you weren't striving as previously but it was just flowing out of a faucet without any labor on your part.

    I don't know, you might not understand me and think I am crazy but I somehow think you will understand because I think you have experienced this...and so, this is not a time to go back to laboring for water and you need only to drink freely. It would be harmful to try to work as you did before because it would stop the flow of water. He has been pleased to stop your laboring and so you receive it with thanks. To begin laboring again with your mind rather than resting and receiving will stop the flow. The flow is what you were seeking.

    Maybe someone else will be able to better explain why you must not labor right now.

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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist movement, described God’s grace as threefold:

    prevenient grace
    justifying grace
    sanctifying grace

    Prevenient Grace
    Wesley understood grace as God’s active presence in our lives. This presence is not dependent on human actions or human response. It is a gift — a gift that is always available, but that can be refused.

    God’s grace stirs up within us a desire to know God and empowers us to respond to God’s invitation to be in relationship with God. God’s grace enables us to discern differences between good and evil and makes it possible for us to choose good….

    God takes the initiative in relating to humanity. We do not have to beg and plead for God’s love and grace. God actively seeks us!1

    Justifying Grace
    Paul wrote to the church in Corinth: “In Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them” (2 Corinthians 5:19). And in his letter to the Roman Christians, Paul wrote: “But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).

    These verses demonstrate the justifying grace of God. They point to reconciliation, pardon, and restoration. Through the work of God in Christ our sins are forgiven, and our relationship with God is restored. According to John Wesley, founder of the Methodist movement, the image of God — which has been distorted by sin — is renewed within us through Christ’s death.

    Again, this dimension of God’s grace is a gift. God’s grace alone brings us into relationship with God. There are no hoops through which we have to jump in order to please God and to be loved by God. God has acted in Jesus Christ. We need only to respond in faith.1

    Conversion
    This process of salvation involves a change in us that we call conversion. Conversion is a turning around, leaving one orientation for another. It may be sudden and dramatic, or gradual and cumulative. But in any case, it’s a new beginning. Following Jesus’ words to Nicodemus, “You must be born anew” (John 3:7 RSV), we speak of this conversion as rebirth, new life in Christ, or regeneration.

    Following Paul and Luther, John Wesley called this process justification. Justification is what happens when Christians abandon all those vain attempts to justify themselves before God, to be seen as “just” in God’s eyes through religious and moral practices. It’s a time when God’s “justifying grace” is experienced and accepted, a time of pardon and forgiveness, of new peace and joy and love. Indeed, we’re justified by God’s grace through faith.

    Justification is also a time of repentance — turning away from behaviors rooted in sin and toward actions that express God’s love. In this conversion we can expect to receive assurance of our present salvation through the Holy Spirit “bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God” (Romans 8:16).2

    Sanctifying Grace
    Salvation is not a static, one-time event in our lives. It is the ongoing experience of God’s gracious presence transforming us into whom God intends us to be. John Wesley described this dimension of God’s grace as sanctification, or holiness.1

    Through God’s sanctifying grace, we grow and mature in our ability to live as Jesus lived. As we pray, study the Scriptures, fast, worship, and share in fellowship with other Christians, we deepen our knowledge of and love for God. As we respond with compassion to human need and work for justice in our communities, we strengthen our capacity to love neighbor. Our inner thoughts and motives, as well as our outer actions and behavior, are aligned with God’s will and testify to our union with God. 1

    We’re to press on, with God’s help, in the path of sanctification toward perfection. By perfection, Wesley did not mean that we would not make mistakes or have weaknesses. Rather, he understood it to be a continual process of being made perfect in our love of God and each other and of removing our desire to sin.3

    Our Wesleyan Heritage | The United Methodist Church
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    James 3v17
    New Living Translation

    But the wisdom from above is first of all pure. It is also peace loving, gentle at all times, and willing to yield to others. It is full of mercy and good deeds. It shows no favoritism and is always sincere.

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    Senior Member NotmebutHim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    Resting? What does it mean to enter into the rest of Christ? Did Christ actually do enough for us? Does this mean we do nothing?

    I don't chafe at the term "our doing". We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.

    What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.

    Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.

    Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.

    I won't speak for the others but as far as works go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works" of a believer.

    Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.

    Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15

    The life of the Vine supplies the "sap" needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.

    Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.

    Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.

    Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.

    Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.

    Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action.

    Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
    10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

    11 Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

    There is a vast difference between "us" doing things and the Lord doing things through and in us
    .

    We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30

    Psalm 127:1 (NASB)

    Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it
    ; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.
    Couldn't have said it better myself!

  18. #278
    Senior Member Calmador's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterJens View Post
    This is a key question. Did Christ do enough to save us?
    No.

    We have to
    1. Repent of our sins
    2. Believe on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins
    3. Follow Jesus
    4. Obey Jesus's commands
    5. Dwell in Gods word
    6. Walk in the Spirit, in communion with God

    Now you could add to this list or expand each item.

    Some say Christ has done enough, and we need to do nothing but believe.

    Jesus describes himself as the Shepherd.

    I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
    John 10:11

    Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
    Matt 7:13-14

    We are called to follow, to follow the road that leads to life.
    If you are following, it takes effort and you are doing actual work.

    Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
    Matt 11:28-30

    A yoke is about being alongside another and taking their road and learning how to
    walk it.

    All of the above implies Christ has laid the way to salvation, but we have to walk it
    to follow, to put effort in, to choose, to make decisions and fight the good fight.

    So it is hard to believe people who say they know scripture, yet claim they
    need do nothing and Christ has done it all, it is just resting and reaping.

    This is just heresy.
    An analogy could help.

    A man is in debt and owes one billion dollars. It's life or death. A billionaire out of his love gives the billion dollars. The man in debt accepts in faith. The man in debt is saved. Did the man in debt to anything? Not much in terms of being saved. Did the billionaire do any saving? Yes. He did all the saving.

    Now to make the analogy complete... the spirit produces fruit. We obey because we love him. G-d doesn't just save but he makes us more and more in the likeness of G-d.

    So, there's salvation which I described in the analogy and a by product of fruits from G-d's continuing of work in our lives.

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    Senior Member beta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calmador View Post
    An analogy could help.

    A man is in debt and owes one billion dollars. It's life or death. A billionaire out of his love gives the billion dollars. The man in debt accepts in faith. The man in debt is saved. Did the man in debt to anything? Not much in terms of being saved. Did the billionaire do any saving? Yes. He did all the saving.

    Now to make the analogy complete... the spirit produces fruit. We obey because we love him. G-d doesn't just save but he makes us more and more in the likeness of G-d.

    So, there's salvation which I described in the analogy and a by product of fruits from G-d's continuing of work in our lives.
    This analogy does not seem complete to me. This debtors problem is only solved up to a point....as much as can be done to save his life.
    But let's look at it a bit deeper---WHY did he owe such a vast sum ? there could be different reasons and unless he is made aware of his failings he is likely to make the same mistakes again....wouldn't you say ? This 'debtor needs to be educated and learn not to repeat his bad habits....for it is not likely that another 'billionair will come along to pay his debt a second time.
    What did Jesus say to the woman caught in adultery ? Go - and sin no more.
    Having our debt paid is not all there is to salvation but it gives us the ALL-IMPORTANT start without which we would not have a future...but WE must also DO our part - repent and change !
    PeterJens likes this.

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    Senior Member PeterJens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Christ do enough to save us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace View Post
    I DO understand what you are saying, peter, and I understand why you are saying it, but I think you have phrased it a bit unfortunately...
    I am saved my sister, and I know what you are saying.
    What I am putting into words is my life and my conversion as a teenager.

    I am expressing a language of what is our final goal is.
    To be like Christ.

    What is our walk?
    To walk in purity, holiness and love.

    What is eternal life?
    To follow Jesus.

    Can the faith be summarised in a few sentences? No.
    The whole of the new testament represents many aspects of the faith, and
    each summary fails to capture it all, but shows a window.

    On the word speaking to me. Take one phrase, dead works.

    The letter to the hebrews uses it twice, so it is a mystery exactly what this means.
    But working it through, self justification before God.

    There are many other aspects one could think it means, and finally come to a conclusion.

    Here are another selection of difficult phrases that cause differing views.

    Be perfect like you heavenly father is perfect.
    Everything not of faith is sin.
    If you do not do that which is good to do, that is sin.
    Hate your family.
    Love everyone, do not love the world, is you sin you are of the devil.

    Take any of these the wrong way, and one can be lost.
    So I am exploring what is our response to God and how do we walk this gulf between
    being a sinner and becoming like Christ.

    And for me to say, we need to respond, is like anathema to some, and bread and butter to
    others. This demonstrates the width of experience and understanding in the fellowship.

    So I am no new convert, or struggling to know Christ, I am working through the theological
    expression of the reality in my life.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

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