The easy way to spot a false grace message

[PeterJens]

Peter, it doesn't matter how long you read the Bible or how long you have been saved if your heart is not willing. There are new Christians who are more willing to believe than those hardened religious baptized in lemon juice Christians.

Don't go by your "credits" go by the truth of the Word. When we "hear" it also means to believe what we are hearing from the Word apart from our human understanding. That is where faith begins to really take us where the Holy Spirit leads.

The Holy Spirit is the only one who can open our hearts to the truth. How open are we to His leading? THAT is the question. A sourpuss Christian can be so sour and hard that they are unwilling to open up to anything that sounds different to them.

So they interpret that unwillingness as a godly thing when in fact it is the very man made religious thing keeping them from growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Your appeal is to my emotions not my interlect or knowledge of God and scripture.
The truth is the gateway to our hearts is Christ and His word.

And my heart is bathed in Christs love and acceptance and knowledge of how to
walk as He walked. So what is it that you have that I am missing?

I will quote Peter for you

Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
2 Peter 1:4

It sounds to me like rather than escaping the corruption caused by evil desires you
are wallowing in them and allowing them to continue to dominate.

This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority.
2 Peter 2:10

Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from the Lord. But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.
2 Peter 2:10-12

With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness.
2 Peter 2:14-15

They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.”
2 Peter 2:19

 

[Grandpa]

You should restate this.. claiming no one can walk perfect ' in the Spirit' is directly against what the Bible says.. Him being more than Spirit, sure we can mess up.. but in the Spirit, impossible

No one is in the Spirit 100% of the time.

Therefore, no one is walking perfectly in the Spirit 100% of the time.

This shouldn't be that difficult. I think you already understood what I was saying, maybe just the way I said it could be mis-interpreted...

Now that I re-read it you are probably right.

 

[PeterJens]

The bible stands against you and everyone like you.

The very first thing you have to do is walk in the Light. That means honesty.

If you think that you walk perfectly in the Spirit then you are saying you are Jesus Christ on Earth. Its great that you aspire to that. To claim perfection as God is Perfection is just dishonest.

Let me be honest with you, you started with saying walking righteously is not
being honest but dishonestly. If this was so it is not walking righteously.

Now saying we walk without sinning, is saying we have been cleansed and purified
by the Holy Spirit, and have our sins forgiven, so are Holy, true and honest.

So ofcourse if you can never reach this state, you equally cannot walk forward.
But let me assume as scripture says we are forgiven, we have reached this state.
What stops us, or defiles us as we walk? Our hearts, our words and actions.
So until we are defiled we are walking as we should.
So again the issue is, is this possible. If you say it is, then the question is how
to continue without being defiled.

Now this is our hope and our calling, which Christ called us to through the cross.
Look at the apostles and their teaching. It is all about this, how to walk, how
to stay in communion, how to be the people of God.

Now the hyper legalists who make everything out to be a sin, delude your minds
to say walking as Christ walked is a pipe dream. Paul did not think so.

Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
1 Cor 11:1

So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— even as I try to please everyone in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.
1 Cor 10:31-33

"Do not cause anyone to stumble"
Obvious example, stumbling is only important is you are already walking as you
should.

 

[Stephen63]

I've never seen a Grace message focus on sin. I think that's only something someone who doesn't understand Grace does.


People that fight against Grace don't care what Grace really is. They just know they don't like it.

I didn't hear anything on grace either, till a year & a half ago, when hyper-grace started flooding the BDF. It's disgusting.

 

[Grandpa]

I didn't hear anything on grace either, till a year & a half ago, when hyper-grace started flooding the BDF. It's disgusting.

I know you hate Grace. But you don't ever say what it is about Grace you really hate.

 

[FreeNChrist]

God's grace is not just a word, but it is given to empower us by the Spirit. This is what a active working grace looks like...

The grace of God simply means to find favor and acceptance from God.

Well, which is it? Make up your mind.

In the NT Greek the word for grace can also be defined as “the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace. And also as..“divine influence upon the heart”…... χάρις cháris, khar'-ece; from G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life;including gratitude):”

The grace of God is given as a gift to an individual but is also demonstrated in power and influence over the one who receives it, as shown in Ephesians 3:7 “Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.”


So when God’s grace is actively working in a believer by faith, there is an influence upon the heart that is also reflected outwardly in ones words and actions bringing forth good fruit, as shown here in Romans 1:5 “By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:”


So though the grace of God is given as a gift to us, and we are chosen and elect and anointed by God, there is an active manifestation of God’s grace working in His elect for the obedience of the faith and for to do, and to work God’s works and will in our lives, by the power of His Spirit working in us and through us.

Ummm, yeah, that's all very true and exactly what we have been telling you right along.

But there are also many imposters who proclaim themselves to be “in Christ” or born again of God’s Spirit, or “under grace” but truly are not. So is one able to tell the difference between the true and false according to scripture? I believe there is.

Now you're playing God. That's a no no.

First as we saw above in Romans 1:5 the grace of God is given for the obedience of the faith, so disobedience is a sure sign. It is also written that this faith that is given then establishes the righteousness of the law in us Romans 3:31 “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 8:4 “That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

Miss the contrast being made between believers and the lost all through the NT and you will do exactly what you do, apply onto believers what is about the lost, and make a mess of everything.

This is also confirmed under the NT that we have the righteousness of God’s law written on our hearts and minds. Hebrews 8:10, Hebrews 10:16. So we are not “lawless” as some might suggest.

Those who are lawless are those who are trying to fulfill the Law in the energy of their flesh. They have set the Law loose from its moorings in the activity of God by substituting their own activity for His.

Also another sign of the active power of God’s grace working in a true believer is that sin shall not have dominion over you. Romans 6:14 Meaning you will not go on sinning and serving the lusts and desires of the flesh, but have truly been set free from the bondage of sin in your life by the same power of God’s Spirit of grace.

Sin does not have dominion over Christians...greater is He who is in us than he who is in the world. That Christians still sin does not translate to sin having "dominion over you" or the "ongoing sin" you are obsessed with. We are all works in progress, He isn't through with any of us, including you.

So we conclude as in Titus 2:11-15 “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,[SUP]12 [/SUP]Teaching us that,denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;[SUP]13 [/SUP]Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;[SUP]14 [/SUP]Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity,and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.[SUP]15 [/SUP]These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”

Exactly what "we" have been doing....speaking, exhorting, and rebuking with all authority. And not letting you or anyone else despise us for it. Grace has "appeared" because Jesus has appeared, in whom is our salvation. We have the grace of God and salvation because we have Jesus. And now the life we live we live by faith in Him, because He loved us and gave Himself up for us. (Gal. 2:20)

 

[PeterJens]

Turning the Gospel into a maintenance check list to retain, assist, or to gain salvation is turning the good news into really, really, really bad news.

You will never make it into the Kingdom of God. People think they're going to stand before God and be praised that 'they did it'? That is arrogant and blasphemous.

Here is a simple miss-understanding of love and God.
We are called to a communion with the Lord, to abide in the vine, to be Gods body
on earth, to represent the Kingdom of Heaven where we live.

This is our life, our breath, our very being, from early morning to late at night.
This is not gaining salvation or maintaining it, it is being in Christ.

The language is so different, the spirit and understanding, we clearly are in different places.

You have already started saying it is "arrogant and blasphemous"

These are the words of a different faith, not scripture or love working in the souls of believers.

 

[Grandpa]

Let me be honest with you, you started with saying walking righteously is not
being honest but dishonestly. If this was so it is not walking righteously.

Now saying we walk without sinning, is saying we have been cleansed and purified
by the Holy Spirit, and have our sins forgiven, so are Holy, true and honest.

So ofcourse if you can never reach this state, you equally cannot walk forward.
But let me assume as scripture says we are forgiven, we have reached this state.
What stops us, or defiles us as we walk? Our hearts, our words and actions.
So until we are defiled we are walking as we should.
So again the issue is, is this possible. If you say it is, then the question is how
to continue without being defiled.

Now this is our hope and our calling, which Christ called us to through the cross.
Look at the apostles and their teaching. It is all about this, how to walk, how
to stay in communion, how to be the people of God.

Now the hyper legalists who make everything out to be a sin, delude your minds
to say walking as Christ walked is a pipe dream. Paul did not think so.

Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
1 Cor 11:1

So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— even as I try to please everyone in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.
1 Cor 10:31-33

"Do not cause anyone to stumble"
Obvious example, stumbling is only important is you are already walking as you
should.

If you think you are "walking righteously" 100% of the time you are deceived.

So, if you actually admit that you do not "walk righteously" 100% of the time then you would be admitting that you are un-righteous at least sometimes.

If you are un-righteous at least sometimes then you still need a Saviour. If you are un-righteous at least sometimes then when you are weak you can see that He is Strong.

But if you are deceived and cannot see then how can this be explained to you?

 

[FreeNChrist]

Yes, and if sin does not have dominion over you that means you will no longer be a servant of sin, which means you will not be sinning. This is not rocket science, just simple deduction.

Take it step by step. Those who commit sin are servants of sin, which means sin has dominion over them because they serve it's desires.

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

You're right it's not rocket science, so why don't you get it? You still sin and yet you still think yourself to be a believer. That's why folks keep bringing it back to you and your own sins, because your own belief system condemns you and proves you to not be what you say you are. What you are saying is that no one is a Christian because no one is without sin. So let's all just eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die, eh?

 

[Stephen63]

I know you hate Grace. But you don't ever say what it is about Grace you really hate.

It's easy for you to bold-face lie & twist someone's words, isn't it? I hate the sin of hyper-grace, cause it's no grace at all.

 

[PeterJens]

I know you hate Grace. But you don't ever say what it is about Grace you really hate.

Grandpa - How can any believer hate the gift of Christ and the cross? This truly is grace
working in our hearts, as I write these words.

To even write what you have written declares your position and blindness. You whole faith
is based on the fallen nature of man and the total separation of God from the physical existance.
So to your eyes, hating grace is just saying our response is part of salvation, while to us,
saying we hate grace is saying we hate the cross and love.

It is why language can cause deep offence if the meaning is not clear.
I respect your desire to separate the physical from the spiritual, but we just view things differently.

God bless you and may you grow in His revelation of where we are each day of your life,
Amen.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, & so am I. Let me tell you mine.....

The hyper-grace followers on this site have been growing at an alarming rate lately. Now there's a big bunch of them. At least it "looks" like there's a bunch of them.

IMO, there's several members holding multiple memberships to multiply the effect they have in the BDF. Not only that, but some of them are PAID WORKERS, hired by hypergrace web sites, book publishers, or televangelists to advertise their doctrine & sell their wares.

Don't believe it? These HG's only argued & fought on here for a SOLID YEAR, taking over the whole BDF. Just ask the Admins & mods, they'll tell you.

These paid workers holding multiple memberships & pushing their agenda is called sock puppetry. Sock puppets are paid professionals whose sole purpose is to perpetuate a lie that, as an example, a certain new item for sale is the hottest new thing out there & everybody should buy it.
The REAL truth is, the new item is a piece of junk & folks are getting paid to pump up its sales.

The same thing is happening here..... people are getting paid to illegally advertise a false doctrine against CC rules, & holding multiple memberships to do it, which is against CC rules. Sock puppets, plain & simple. This is why they seem to work in "packs".

How's that for "detective work?"

Lousy. Sounds more like a paranoid conspiracy nut to me.

 

[HisHolly]

He quotes the Bible. If he has a message you reject then you are the same as those who killed the prophets... You act as tho He wrote the scriptures he uses... Then you'd be justified in your opposition, but you are coming against the word and making it about him BC a human is quoting.. you don't think he has the right to do so..BC he's not 'perfect'...

You're right it's not rocket science, so why don't you get it? You still sin and yet you still think yourself to be a believer. That's why folks keep bringing it back to you and your own sins, because your own belief system condemns you and proves you to not be what you say you are. What you are saying is that no one is a Christian because no one is without sin. So let's all just eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die, eh?

 

[gb9]

Here is a simple miss-understanding of love and God.
We are called to a communion with the Lord, to abide in the vine, to be Gods body
on earth, to represent the Kingdom of Heaven where we live.

This is our life, our breath, our very being, from early morning to late at night.
This is not gaining salvation or maintaining it, it is being in Christ.

The language is so different, the spirit and understanding, we clearly are in different places.

You have already started saying it is "arrogant and blasphemous"

These are the words of a different faith, not scripture or love working in the souls of believers.

Scripture says we are saved by grace through faith for good works. that is not hard to understand. but for some reason, people reject, twist, and flatly refuse to believe it.

 

[Grandpa]

It's easy for you to bold-face lie & twist someone's words, isn't it? I hate the sin of hyper-grace, cause it's no grace at all.

You're the one that always brings up "hyper" grace.

I was just talking about Grace.

You must hate Grace if you always try to twist it into "hyper" grace.

 

[PeterJens]

If you think you are "walking righteously" 100% of the time you are deceived.
So, if you actually admit that you do not "walk righteously" 100% of the time then you would be admitting that you are un-righteous at least sometimes.
If you are un-righteous at least sometimes then you still need a Saviour. If you are un-righteous at least sometimes then when you are weak you can see that He is Strong.
But if you are deceived and cannot see then how can this be explained to you?

I can only walk in Christ. Can a branch in the vine survive without the vine, the sap, the
flow of life? No.

All you can do is project a faith of ones own created heaven with good people, and leave
Christ out of it. This is not what we are sharing, so you are saying something other than
what we are saying which is lying.

Now your interpretation, taking Christ out of things, again is a lie. So I am at a loss what
you are actually saying other than creating you own invented belief system which you
then critic. Not exactly a cogent line of thought or attack.

 

[gb9]

He quotes the Bible. If he has a message you reject then you are the same as those who killed the prophets... You act as tho He wrote the scriptures he uses... Then you'd be justified in your opposition, but you are coming against the word and making it about him BC a human is quoting.. you don't think he has the right to do so..BC he's not 'perfect'...

quoting the Bible does mean anything if not explained correctly. just throwing out verses and building theology around them with no thought of context, meaning etc.. is mis-use of God's word.

 

[HisHolly]

Unless it's above pay grades

quoting the Bible does mean anything if not explained correctly. just throwing out verses and building theology around them with no thought of context, meaning etc.. is mis-use of God's word.

 

[HisHolly]

Folks always lock God in a box.. can we talk about real moves of God that were missed BC folks told themselves it wasn't him?

 

[HisHolly]

When denial happens before seeking.. sad