Is slavery wrong?

Rondonmon · Jan 5, 2017

As with all your types, you repeat an atheistic viewpoint, without having any true knowledge of the bible. This scripture, that you no doubt are clueless about because you are parroting others, is below, and does the exact opposite of what you suggest, it hold people accountable, unlike in the USA where you could beat and kill your slaves. Israel via the Laws of God had a penalty.

[FONT=&quot]20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. BUT....After a few days, if the man was OK, then there was no punishment, because the Master was only seen as disciplining his servant, not murdering him.

These laws are made for SINFUL MAN, not for men who are Holy like God.

[/FONT]

Yiska · Jan 5, 2017

posthuman said:

I think you are overlooking the biggest deliverance from slavery; the Israelites being freed through Moses and God's Mighty Hand from the land of Egypt. The idea of harsh slavery being immoral was addressed in chapter 1 of Exodus. In addition, Jesus said that Moses granted a petition of divorce because of our hardness of hearts. I believe many more teachings in The Law give instructions for situations as a concession for Man's sinful nature, and are not granting permission to do what is immoral or oppress.

In Leviticus 19:18 (KJV) we read: "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD." Many years later Jesus was asked by a lawyer how one might obtain eternal life and Jesus asked the man to answer his own question: "And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself." Now in the Old and New Covenants we are faced with the instructions to love our neighbours but the man wanted to justify himself and asked Jesus for the explanation "who is my neighbour?". Jesus went on to tell the story often called "The Good Samaritan" and after the story the question wasn't "who is my neighbour?" but rather "who was a neighbour to the man who fell among thieves?" "Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?" (Luke 10:36). "And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise." (Luke 10:37).

So my question is: Is there anyone here who wishes to be a slave? I believe if your answer is "no" then you have your answer. Treat others as you would like to be treated and love your neighbour as yourself. God bless and peace to you.

wwjd_kilden · Jan 5, 2017

[SUP]Gal 3:28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Zmouth · Jan 5, 2017

Rondonmon said:

So I take it that you reject the claims that the United States was founded as a Christian Nation?

Modern claims that America is not a Christian nation are rarely noticed or refuted today because of the nation’s widespread lack of knowledge about America’s history and foundation. To help provide the missing historical knowledge necessary to combat today’s post-modern revisionism, presented below will be some statements by previous presidents, legislatures, and courts (as well as by current national Jewish spokesmen) about America being a Christian nation.
SOURCE: http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=180593

The United States was founded as a Christian nation. The historical evidence for this is so overwhelming that only someone resistant to the truth and the facts can refuse to believe it.
At the time of the founding, 99.8% of the population of the fledgling country identified themselves, to one degree of sincerity or another, as followers of Jesus Christ. And 98.4% identified themselves as Protestants. Catholics represented 1.4% of the population, and the other 0.2% were followers of Judaism. Virtually 100% of those living in America at the time of its founding were adherents of the Judeo-Christian tradition.
The United States was founded by Christians, for Christians, and on the foundation of Christianity. Of this there can be no historical doubt.
SOURCE: The U.S. was founded as a Christian nation - here's more proof

If the United States was founded upon Christian doctrine, then the wouldn't the practice of forced slavery have ended upon the colonies gaining their Independence from the British throne?

Rondonmon said:

So you hold that Old Testament laws are superior to the doctrine of Christianity?

tanakh · Jan 5, 2017

I am amazed that anyone could imagine that God approves of slavery. Anyone with a ounce of morality should know that slavery is wrong. If we as imperfect as we are recognize that it is wrong how can anyone believe that god approves it?
God works within our society and culture and did so during biblical times. Just because slavery and other worse things were committed in Biblical times does not mean that they have Gods approval.

Blik · Jan 5, 2017

tanakh said:

Right on!!

There is no scripture that tells us God approves of slavery. In the society that God told us about slavery was simply part of that society, and often it meant that people were treated badly. God taught to make them part of the family, even, no slave was treated with anything but kindness in a household that obeyed the Lord. Every seven years they were offered freedom, but many preferred staying with their owners.

Blik · Jan 5, 2017

Zmouth said:

Are you saying that Christ isn't God, so the doctrine of Christ is not like the doctrine of the Lord?

Scripture tells us God is one and Christ and the Father speaks the same. I have never seen a scripture saying Christ opposed the teaching of His Father, please show us if you found some.

Depleted · Jan 5, 2017

Blik said:

Read the Law. It's in there. Even who the slaves should be and how to treat them.

What modern Christians seem to keep missing is most of the time the slaves were also family! There was purpose to it. And they were paid. And it was only for seven years or until the Year of Jubilee, whichever came first. And it was a wonderful way of not needing the government to take care of the disabled, old, or poor.

Really read it. You shouldn't be in a nursing home. You should be with your family. And, if your children or your children's children can't afford to have you live with them, (because it's only taking care of you, if you need that. The real idea is even we disabled, old, or poor folk contribute to the family in some way), then your husband's family should. And if they can't, then your nieces or nephews should step in.

What you, my husband, and I have been handed would have never happened had the world kept up with God's law instead of replacing it with the modern notion of slavery. AND there would be no need for Social Security, Welfare, or nursing homes.

Blain · Jan 5, 2017

We have to understand that things were very different back then it was normal to have several wives and to have slaves back then but the slaves were not based on the color of skin rather their blood line and they were treated fairly and like actual human beings however when Jesus died on the cross everything changed even slaves were of equal footing with non slaves in Christ and were just as much royalty as anyone else.

Clinton33 · Jan 5, 2017

Blik said:

You obviously haven't bothered reading any of the verses I provided in the original post

Clinton33 · Jan 5, 2017

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Clinton33 · Jan 5, 2017

God directly permitted slave owners to beat their slaves within an inch of their life provided that they didn't die in the following two days. So stop with all this BS about how well god wanted them to be treated

SovereignGrace · Jan 5, 2017

A Wesleyan told me back in early summer that they came from a split in the Methodist church. The Wesleyians that left were anti-slavery, whereas the Methodists were pro-slavery.

But slavery is a slippery slope, imo. Yes, there are verses that speak for it. But in context, those were the ones where ppl made themselves slaves to, either keep from being killed, or they enslaved themselves for food and a place to live. Jacob enslaved himself for 14 years to get Rachel.

TheLastKnight · Jan 5, 2017

Many slaves were that of their own admission. It's called an apprenticeship where they would agree to work for a 7 year period and then they would receive their agreed upon payment. The jews would put a ring through the ear of someone, much like a cows ear is tagged to show that someone owned them. This ear ring showed their slavery to their master. Slavery as you see in the movies where they are beat and mistreated is wrong but this is wrong because of the abuse. Self admittance is not wrong.

Rondonmon · Jan 5, 2017

Zmouth said:

The USA was founded as a Democratic Republic by a Christian people(s) with Christian principles and almost every one of the founders stated that this kind of democracy of for the people by the people could not work without Christian principles being applied by a moral peoples. We were not founded as a Theocracy, no one I know has ever stated that. The founders did not want a State Church such as England or Italy had, wherein other religious sects be they Baptists, Methodists etc. etc. might be discriminated against. BUT....There was and is no such thing as a separation of Church and state, it is a lie, the people prayed in congress without ceasing, the set forth a Day of Thanksgiving to God as a national holiday, they payed a preacher to do services in congress.

Thou shall Respect no Establishment only meant that no specific Church was to be esteemed/Respected more than any other Church, in other words, there shall be no state sponsored church. We all know those Supreme Court Justices are liberal anti God bigots.

So your little PARLOR TRICK did not work did it ? Now as to why Slavery was accepted in the USA, the States were each individual sovereign states. When England attacked the USA or declared war, in order to defeat this HUGE POWERHOUSE, the states had to band together, those that wanted no slavery had no leg to stand on, they had to play the cards they were dealt, in order to get a UNION they had to accept Slavery, but they did write in the Constitution a way out by stating that All men are created equal, and have inalienable rights. Now they could have all just disagreed and have been CONQUERED BY THE BRITS....... who owned 75 percent of the World it seems at one time or the other. Its funny that only the USA is targeted for slavery when it was a WORLD WIDE INSTITUTION.....Liberals...SIGH.

NO.........God is perfect, and ALL OF HIS LAWS ARE PERFECT............Mankind is the evil, dirty ones, not God, not His laws, not anything about God is wicked. You need to recalculate your understanding of God. Its not His fault you can't comprehend Him.

Rondonmon · Jan 5, 2017

tanakh said:

These are the same type people that come up with SUPPOSED CONTRADICTIONS and I destroy their propaganda time and again.

Clinton33 · Jan 5, 2017

So what would happen if it had been 7 years and the slave desperately wanted to go free and he had a master that was cruel and constantly beat him but the slave master owned his wife and children? Is it not blackmail to hold his wife and children hostage for his freedom?

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Depleted · Jan 6, 2017

SovereignGrace said:

If something went wrong, and you lost everything, then you became a slave to a rich relative. If you lost your arm in some accident and couldn't take care of yourself, you became a slave to a rich relative. If you had a big family and couldn't afford to feed all the kids you went to a rich relative. If your husband died, you went to his brother. If you were just lazy, you still went to your family, and family took you in. If someone stole your land, you went to your relatives and there were enough of them to get back the land. (War! For real, if need be.)

And these were the terms:
-- Seven years of being a slave, (or until the Year of Jubilee.)
-- Contribute to the family income.
-- Contribute and you get 10% of the profit for however you contributed. No contributing (because you're just lazy), and no income at all. And for the ones disabled, there was always things like watching the children or teaching how to do something or whatever chores you could do.
-- You were fed and sheltered.
-- You could be punched, but not injured permanently. The exception was a pregnant woman, because if you killed her child it was dire consequences. (I don't remember if it was a hefty fine or you were killed, but I lean toward you were killed.)
-- At the end of seven years you were free to go. If you were smart you had that income saved up so you could start fresh. If you could not go, you could stay. If you chose to stay for the rest of your life, you got a hole punched in your ear to mark you as a forever slave. You became part of the family.
-- You could marry and have your own family. No one was selling off the family from you, because they too were family at the moment of marriage.
-- You were always there to serve, although you could serve in any capacity. Some of the right-hand man for the patriarchs in the OT were ear-punched slaves who ran the whole business.

We would have gladly helped Dad or helped my brother, if either one of us would take us in when we were about to lose our house and John was on chemo. The money for treatment camefrom our Medicaid plan, and would not have been dropped, because our income was our income(as little as it was), so they didn't have to buy the chemo for him. ($3500 a shot, so that would have been a big question if anyone would have taken us.

And, dangit! If Dad had taken us in, we could have taken care of him until the last few months of him being in his house. with my family pitching in and staying with Dad while I was visiting John at the hospital, it would have worked out. He would have someone there that actually knew those dishes weren't clean. He would have someone to do his laundry for him. He would have had someone nag him to take a shower. And we would have smelled the smoke from the wood pile, saving it and the wood that holds up the woods above the parking lot. The black mold would not have happened, because we would have notice it. He could have kept going grocery shopping with us. He could have gone swimming three times a week. And we would have been freed from not having enough money to pay our bills. No more bills but Internet connectivity.

But, no no, he would never want anyone living with him, even as he got lost for 13 trying to get his hair cut (on the wrong day.) And he wasn't getting any alcohol out of us. Our lives would have been much mess worrisome, bot on our end and on know Dad could do stuff just as long as he was with us.

It was a great plan, but Dad would have none of it. In that ear, he would have.

Clinton33 · Jan 6, 2017

Where is any of what you just said in the Bible?
I honestly feel like you're just making up whatever makes you feel good

Clinton33 · Jan 6, 2017

I just showed you the verse in which the Bible says you may use a slave's family as blackmail so that the slave may never leave and I also showed you where the Bible says you may beat your slaves almost to death and you didn't address either of those things

Is slavery wrong?

Senior Member

Yiska

Guest

wwjd_kilden

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Depleted

Guest

The Word Weaver

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Depleted

Guest

Banned

Banned