Jewish Roman conspiracy

[jaybird88]

has anyone ever noticed in the bible that towards the end of the ministry of Jesus there were large crowds of Jewish believers every where He went. when the priest leadership plotted His death they had to do it in secret as they feared the crowds. when James (Jesus brother) was killed the town went crazy, they loved James. the first Christians were Jewish Christians, a Jewish sect. Jews were coming out everywhere to follow. yet by the time we get to Roman Christianity a few hundred years later there is a big divider between Christianity and Judaism and most the Church Fathers and Jewish leaders hate each other. so what happened?

 

[kaylagrl]

has anyone ever noticed in the bible that towards the end of the ministry of Jesus there were large crowds of Jewish believers every where He went. when the priest leadership plotted His death they had to do it in secret as they feared the crowds. when James (Jesus brother) was killed the town went crazy, they loved James. the first Christians were Jewish Christians, a Jewish sect. Jews were coming out everywhere to follow. yet by the time we get to Roman Christianity a few hundred years later there is a big divider between Christianity and Judaism and most the Church Fathers and Jewish leaders hate each other. so what happened?

Oh ho boy! You are just asking for trouble.lol Im holding on to my hat on the sidelines waiting on the answers to this one!

 

[jaybird88]

i know i posted this in the conspiracy section. can a mod move this please. or better yet just delete it and i will make another in the right forum.


im such a dummy . . .

 

[kaylagrl]

i know i posted this in the conspiracy section. can a mod move this please. or better yet just delete it and i will make another in the right forum.


im such a dummy . . .

Nah,not a dummy. These forums scrambles all our brains.

 

[jaybird88]

will you guys respond in the conspiracy room, i made another thread.

i know i was in that room when i made the thread cause i was thinking to myself "theres no good topics here any more" so i thought of one and posted it . . . . . or did i?

looks like i picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

 

[prove-all]

you meen the lost century in church history

as Edward Gibbon wrote in
The History of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire

"The scanty materials of ecclesiastical history seldom enable us to dispel
the cloud that hangs over the first age of the church .

Jesse Lyman Hurlbert in
The story of the christian church

the age just after the book of acts he calls "..the age of shadows.."

"of all the periods in the churches history, it is the one about which we know
the least about. For fifty years after St. Paul's life a curtain hangs over the church,
through which we strive vainly to look;


William McLaughlin in
The Course of Christian History

"But Christianity itself had been in the process of transformation as it progressed
and at the close of the period was in many respects quite different from the apostolic
Christianity."


Samuel G. Green in
A handbook of church History

"The thirty years which followed the close of the New Testement canon and the
destruction of Jerusalem, are in truth the most obscure in the history of the church.
When we emerge in the second century, we are to a great extent in a changed world."


William fitzgerald in
lectures on ecclesiastical History

"over this period of transition, which immediatly succeeds upon
the era properly called apostolic, great obscurity hangs."


Philip Schaff in
History of the Christian Church

"The remaining thirty years of the first century are involved in mysterious darkness,
illuminated only by the writings of John. This is a period of church history about which
we know least and would like to know most."

"Simon Magus unquestionably adulterated Christianity with pagon ideas and practices
and gave himself out for an emanation of God."

"This heresy in the second century spread over the whole church, east and west,
in the various schools of agnosticism."



-

-Satan was doing everything he could to destroy the Work of God, and in
little more than two decades, God’s people were turning to another gospel.

-this was the time of the Roman Empire , and in around 117 AD, at its greatest extent.
streched from Britian clear to modern day Turkey, and it ruled with the rod of iron.


-

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you
into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years
I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

 

[Dino246]

IMHO this is the right thread for this topic.

As an increasing percentage of Christians came from pagan backgrounds, there grew a pseudohistory around the crucifixion, which blamed it entirely on the Jews. They became known as Christ-killers, even though the Romans were equally guilty.

There was also a cultural divide between pagan polytheistic Rome and monotheistic Judaism. There is quite a history of tension between the cultures. Josephus captures a good chunk of it in his history works.

That's a very sketchy outline... I'll leave it to the history buffs to fill in the details... or correct mine.

 

[Desertsrose]

has anyone ever noticed in the bible that towards the end of the ministry of Jesus there were large crowds of Jewish believers every where He went. when the priest leadership plotted His death they had to do it in secret as they feared the crowds. when James (Jesus brother) was killed the town went crazy, they loved James. the first Christians were Jewish Christians, a Jewish sect. Jews were coming out everywhere to follow. yet by the time we get to Roman Christianity a few hundred years later there is a big divider between Christianity and Judaism and most the Church Fathers and Jewish leaders hate each other. so what happened?

Hi Jaybird, Are you talking about a division between Christianity and Jewish Christianity or Christianity and Judaism that doesn't accept Yeshua as their Messiah?

 

[JaumeJ]

Examine the events of history concerning Christianity (The Faith of Abraham taught by Jesus Christ), and
any honest person would consider that conspiracy to have been the
Roman-Antisemetic conspiracy.

 

[trofimus]

has anyone ever noticed in the bible that towards the end of the ministry of Jesus there were large crowds of Jewish believers every where He went... a few hundred years later there is a big divider between Christianity and Judaism and most the Church Fathers and Jewish leaders hate each other. so what happened?

I will make a little correction in your words. Instead of "a few hudred laters" I will put "years later".

So, what happened that so many Jews begin to hate Christians, kill them, put them in jail and be so antichristian?

Its quite simple - they stopped to believe that Jesus was a possible Christ.

When He was still alive between them and made miracles, gave them food etc, they thought He could be the Christ.

When He died on the cross and did not bring them the freedom from Romans and the earthly kingdom, they started to hate everything related to Him.

 

[Spurgeoncy]

9 “Then they will hand you over to be tortured and will put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name. 10 Then many will fall away,and they will betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Jesus told us what happened. Judaism persecuted Christianity so severely that many abandoned the Faith.

You also need to remember that Judaism was the only religion that the Romans accepted outside of their own paganism. So christianity was nothing but a strand of judaism to them.

Over time the two established their separate identities in Roman eyes.

 

[Spurgeoncy]

Events like the Kitos War would not have endeared the Jews to Rome.

Meanwhile Christians were quietly observing the sovereignty of whichever country they were in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitos_War

 

[trofimus]

@spurgeoncy: interesting link, thank you


"Tension between the Jewish population of the Roman Empire and the Greek and Roman populations mounted over the course of the 1st century CE, gradually escalating with various violent events, mainly throughout Judea (Iudaea), where parts of the Judean population occasionally erupted into violent insurrections against the Roman Empire."

""The Jews ... waged war on the inhabitants throughout Libya in the most savage fashion, and to such an extent was the country wasted that, its cultivators having been slain, its land would have remained utterly depopulated, had not the Emperor Hadrian gathered settlers from other places and sent them thither, for the inhabitants had been wiped out."

"Several incidents also occurred in other parts of the Roman Empire, most notable the Alexandria pogroms, targeting the large Jewish community of Alexandria in the province of Egypt."

So yes, quite a lot of tension.

 

[JaumeJ]

Nice pastes but it is not so complcated as to need an entire history lesson. It should be sufficent knowing the Roman Emperor did not want to celebrate the sabbath with Jew doing the same, so the sabbath was changed. Also anything sounding Hebrew was either totally deleted from the practice of the faith of Abraham or altered to suit the desires of men.

@spurgeoncy: interesting link, thank you


"Tension between the Jewish population of the Roman Empire and the Greek and Roman populations mounted over the course of the 1st century CE, gradually escalating with various violent events, mainly throughout Judea (Iudaea), where parts of the Judean population occasionally erupted into violent insurrections against the Roman Empire."

""The Jews ... waged war on the inhabitants throughout Libya in the most savage fashion, and to such an extent was the country wasted that, its cultivators having been slain, its land would have remained utterly depopulated, had not the Emperor Hadrian gathered settlers from other places and sent them thither, for the inhabitants had been wiped out."

"Several incidents also occurred in other parts of the Roman Empire, most notable the Alexandria pogroms, targeting the large Jewish community of Alexandria in the province of Egypt."

So yes, quite a lot of tension.

 

[trofimus]

Nice pastes but it is not so complcated as to need an entire history lesson. It should be sufficent knowing the Roman Emperor did not want to celebrate the sabbath with Jew doing the same, so the sabbath was changed. Also anything sounding Hebrew was either totally deleted from the practice of the faith of Abraham or altered to suit the desires of men.

Heh... no.

 

[JaumeJ]

It was under Constantine...........

 

[Spurgeoncy]

Ah yes, those pesky history lessons, because everything really exists in a vacuum.


29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous, 30 and you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you testify against yourselves that you are descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your ancestors. 33 You snakes, you brood of vipers! How can you escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets, sages, and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town, 35 so that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come upon this generation.
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! 38 See, your house is left to you, desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

 

[jaybird88]

Hi Jaybird, Are you talking about a division between Christianity and Jewish Christianity or Christianity and Judaism that doesn't accept Yeshua as their Messiah?

hey rose, either one. in the days of Jesus and the 12 they only had problems with the leadership, the massses were always amazed and spoke highly of His teachings, by the time you get to constintine, all Jews are "heathens involved in superstitions ways".
make sense?

 

[resurrection33]

has anyone ever noticed in the bible that towards the end of the ministry of Jesus there were large crowds of Jewish believers every where He went. when the priest leadership plotted His death they had to do it in secret as they feared the crowds. when James (Jesus brother) was killed the town went crazy, they loved James. the first Christians were Jewish Christians, a Jewish sect. Jews were coming out everywhere to follow. yet by the time we get to Roman Christianity a few hundred years later there is a big divider between Christianity and Judaism and most the Church Fathers and Jewish leaders hate each other. so what happened?

Perhaps the question at hand was whether or not Christians were going to reform Judaism or start their own religion. It turned out they started their own religion.

 

[JimmieD]

has anyone ever noticed in the bible that towards the end of the ministry of Jesus there were large crowds of Jewish believers every where He went. when the priest leadership plotted His death they had to do it in secret as they feared the crowds. when James (Jesus brother) was killed the town went crazy, they loved James. the first Christians were Jewish Christians, a Jewish sect. Jews were coming out everywhere to follow. yet by the time we get to Roman Christianity a few hundred years later there is a big divider between Christianity and Judaism and most the Church Fathers and Jewish leaders hate each other. so what happened?

It could have something to do with the Gentiles coming into the church. If you looks at Acts, Paul's writings, James, etc.. there was a period of time when there was disagreement on how to handle the influx of Gentile believers. It might also have something to do with the Christian's challenge to all other authorities. It might have something to do with the events surrounding and the aftermath the Roman-Jewish war.