GRACE & RIGHTEOUSNESS/RIGHTEOUSNESS & GRACE
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Wrong! More lies from false teachers like Joseph Prince.
1 John 2:29
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
Promoting the lies and the doctrine of the Devil is also not righteous.
1 John 2:29
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
Promoting the lies and the doctrine of the Devil is also not righteous.
READ THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD AND START TO SEE HOW GRACE AND RIGHTEOUSNESS ARE 100% GIFTS....'BESTOWED' ON THE SONS OF GOD. TIED TOGETHER IN CHRIST.
A
Wrong! More lies from false teachers like Joseph Prince.
1 John 2:29
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
Promoting the lies and the doctrine of the Devil is also not righteous.
1 John 2:29
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
Promoting the lies and the doctrine of the Devil is also not righteous.
Firstly, everyone knows you don't like Joseph Prince. Can you respect the admins and mods enough to learn and curb your tongue on that topic and stop with the mud slinging?
God teaches us righteousness and godliness and self control.
He adds to our faith, virtue, knowledge, self control into godliness and perservance when we fall short...eventually we understand what it means to love as God loves and not the world.
The imputed righteousness that protects us from the fiery darts of the enemy does not mean we don't need to learn to be godly people. It just means that even if we stumble, God will not desert us. That he will still love us.
A
Problem is I am not sure if y'all agree about what Grace is or does in a believers life or the definition of righteousness.
So until people clearly define their thoughts, it will be like two boats passing in the night....occassionalky shooting cannon balls at one another when the other makes too loud a noise.
So until people clearly define their thoughts, it will be like two boats passing in the night....occassionalky shooting cannon balls at one another when the other makes too loud a noise.
A
Grace your post is long and too big a bite...so let's just look at two points you made with scripture:
Here it says that God made us righteousness in Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
This says we have become the righteousness of Christ ( this is called a dependent clause in the greek - it is determined as fulfilled because Christ became sin )
2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
So my questions are
1. What is the difference between wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption? God made a point of listing each separately and if we examine the meaning of each maybe we can clear up some confusion and debate?
2. How are we made the righteousness of God in Him?
3. Is it a free gift?
4. Are we fully clothed in Christ righteousness or does God want us to make our own garments?
Here it says that God made us righteousness in Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
This says we have become the righteousness of Christ ( this is called a dependent clause in the greek - it is determined as fulfilled because Christ became sin )
2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
So my questions are
1. What is the difference between wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption? God made a point of listing each separately and if we examine the meaning of each maybe we can clear up some confusion and debate?
2. How are we made the righteousness of God in Him?
3. Is it a free gift?
4. Are we fully clothed in Christ righteousness or does God want us to make our own garments?
Yes Christ's righteousness is a gift, but the false teachings of Joseph prince makes a total disconnect between what that imputed righteous actually looks like in a born again Christian, which Christs righteousness manifests itself also in our righteous doing. He promotes a sin and still be saved doctrine, and sin is not righteous doing, which is why he falsely claims righteousness is not righteous doing.
Your right, I can't stand false teachers who are dressed up like a Lamb but speak as a Dragon. False teachers who are deceiving many and leading them astray down that broad path that leads to destruction. I also cannot stand their lies, and liars, even hypocrites who promote their false doctrine; they are just as guilty.
If you are going to promote false doctrine by false teachers then be ready to receive correction and rebuke from those who do actually know God and His Word.
If you are going to promote false doctrine by false teachers then be ready to receive correction and rebuke from those who do actually know God and His Word.
A
I have found a pretty simple way of spotting a false grace message.
The false grace message says sin (works of the flesh) still has dominion over you when you are born again of the Spirit and under grace. This means by definition that you are still a servant of sin.
But the true grace message says when you are born again of the Spirit and truly under grace sin shall not have dominion over you. This means you are now made free from sin by Christ and are now also made a servant of righteousness.
So when the false grace camp say works do not matter, they also include the works of the flesh=sin in the whole mix of works as they say do not matter.
Sin is a work people, and sin does matter, that is also why Jesus came and was crucified.
The false grace message says sin (works of the flesh) still has dominion over you when you are born again of the Spirit and under grace. This means by definition that you are still a servant of sin.
But the true grace message says when you are born again of the Spirit and truly under grace sin shall not have dominion over you. This means you are now made free from sin by Christ and are now also made a servant of righteousness.
So when the false grace camp say works do not matter, they also include the works of the flesh=sin in the whole mix of works as they say do not matter.
Sin is a work people, and sin does matter, that is also why Jesus came and was crucified.
Let's not jump through these hoops.
I would reply that your statement is a straw man, but what is the point?
Anyone who has the Holy Spirit can recognize the difference between wisdom from above and prideful earthly wisdom that only wants contention.
In case you or others have forgot Oncefallens words
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-spot-false-grace-message-24.html#post2929806
I only read the 1st and last and it sadden me.
A
James 3
Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
A
Have you heard of two types of righteousness? Alien and our own proper righteousness.
Martin Luther: Two Kinds of Righteousness
See apples and oranges..,
Martin Luther: Two Kinds of Righteousness
See apples and oranges..,
There are about ten (10) NT verses which (are trying to) teach us that ...
THOSE WHO PRACTICE RIGHTOUSNESS ARE THE RIGHTEOUS ONES (in God's eyes)!
I.E. the righteousness that you received (once) must be maintained.
Heads up, folks!
Habitually sinning definitely is NOT any part of practicing righteousness!
THOSE WHO PRACTICE RIGHTOUSNESS ARE THE RIGHTEOUS ONES (in God's eyes)!
I.E. the righteousness that you received (once) must be maintained.
Heads up, folks!
Habitually sinning definitely is NOT any part of practicing righteousness!
A
Okay you speak of the 2nd type of righteousness...do you know if the first?
"The second kind of righteousness is our proper righteousness, not because we alone work it, but because we work with that first and alien righteousness. This is that manner of life spent profitably in good works, in the first place, in slaying the flesh and crucifying the desires with respect to the self, of which we read in Gal. 5:24, “And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.” In the second place, this righteousness consists in love to one’s neighbor, and in the third place, in meekness and fear towards God"
Might not have gotten to post 33 yet.....will wait...
"The second kind of righteousness is our proper righteousness, not because we alone work it, but because we work with that first and alien righteousness. This is that manner of life spent profitably in good works, in the first place, in slaying the flesh and crucifying the desires with respect to the self, of which we read in Gal. 5:24, “And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.” In the second place, this righteousness consists in love to one’s neighbor, and in the third place, in meekness and fear towards God"
Might not have gotten to post 33 yet.....will wait...
IT TAKES TIME TO LEARN HOW TO DO THAT. IN THE MEAN TIME SHOOTING OF CANNON BALLS MUST STOP. THE BIBLE SAYS LOVE BRINGS A CHANGE OF HEART (REPENTANCE) SO LOVING EACH OTHER IS THE HIGH AND BEST GOAL. GOD IS LOVE AND HE SAYS WE LOVE HIM BECAUSE HE FIRST LOVED US. SO, BEING AWARE OF HIS LOVE MAKES IT POSSIBLE TO GET PAST DISAGREEMENTS BETWEEN BRETHREN AND NON.
THE BIBLE SAYS LOVE BRINGS A CHANGE OF HEART (REPENTANCE) SO LOVING EACH OTHER IS THE HIGH AND BEST GOAL. GOD IS LOVE AND HE SAYS WE LOVE HIM BECAUSE HE FIRST LOVED US. SO, BEING AWARE OF HIS LOVE MAKES IT POSSIBLE TO GET PAST DISAGREEMENTS BETWEEN BRETHREN AND NON.