ok cleaver clogs then you explain this scripture as many have tried to but failed
Originally Posted by wwjd_kilden
1 Samuel 28
Saul and the Medium at Endor
3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from the land.
4 The Philistines assembled and came and set up camp at Shunem, while Saul gathered all Israel and set up camp at Gilboa. 5 When Saul saw the Philistine army, he was afraid; terror filled his heart. 6 He inquired of the Lord, but the Lord did not answer him by dreams or Urim or prophets. 7 Saul then said to his attendants, “Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her.”
“There is one in Endor,” they said.
8 So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. “Consult a spirit for me,” he said, “and bring up for me the one I name.”
9 But the woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?”
10 Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As surely as the Lord lives, you will not be punished for this.”
11 Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”
“Bring up Samuel,” he said.
12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!”
13 The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?”
The woman said, “I see a ghostly figure[a] coming up out of the earth.”
14 “What does he look like?” he asked.
“An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said.
Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
15 Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
“I am in great distress,” Saul said. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do.”
16 Samuel said, “Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has departed from you and become your enemy? 17 The Lord has done what he predicted through me. The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors—to David. 18 Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today. 19 The Lord will deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also give the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.”
20 Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel’s words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and all that night.
The Witch Of En Dor
Although the Bible condemns spiritism, or the living talking to the dead, there is an episode in Scripture that seems to give some justification to this practice.
The book of First Samuel gives us the account of the experience of King Saul with a medium at the city of En Dor. The prophet Samuel was dead, and the army of the Philistines had gathered to fight against Israel. Seeing the vast army of the enemy, Saul became afraid. He decided to inquire of the Lord. However God was no longer speaking to Saul because of his continual disobedience. The Bible says.
Had Turned Back On Saul
And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets (1 Samuel 28:6
Since God had turned His back on Saul, the king decided to resort to spiritism. Saul had previously put all the witches out of the land.
Although all the mediums and spiritists had been driven out of the land, Saul asked his servants to find a medium he could consult about the future, seeing that God would tell him nothing. Discovering that there was a medium at the town of En Dor, Saul disguised himself to get information about the future.
Now Samuel had died, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in Ramah, his own city. Saul had expelled the mediums and the wizards from the land (1 Samuel 28:3
Consulting The Medium
Saul came to the medium at En Dor at night. He asked her to bring up the prophet Samuel for him. The Bible says the following thing happened.
Samuel spoke to Saul saying. Samuel complained about being disturbed from his place in the realm of the dead.
When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!" The king said to her, "Don't be afraid. What do you see?" The woman said, "I see a spirit coming up out of the ground" (1 Samuel 28:12
Samuel then went on to predict that Saul would die the next day. The Scripture tells us that Saul did indeed die as Samuel predicted.
The battle pressed hard upon Saul; the archers found him, and he was badly wounded by them. Then Saul said to his armor-bearer, "Draw your sword and thrust me through with it, so that these uncircumcised may not come and thrust me through, and make sport of me." But his armor-bearer was unwilling; for he was terrified. So Saul took his own sword and fell upon it. When his armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell upon his sword and died with him (1 Samuel 31:3-5
Number Of Questions To Answer
There are a number of questions to answer concerning this account: Who appeared to Saul? Was it the prophet Samuel? If it was not Samuel who appeared to Saul, then what happened? Was it a trick by the witch, some sort of demonic manifestation, or some hallucination by Saul? If it was Samuel, then how was he able to appear? Did God allow him to speak to Saul, or did the witch have the power to call up the righteous dead.
The questions have been long-debated with advocates to be found for each point.
Option 1: Samuel Did Not Appear
It is possible that Samuel did not appear to Saul. There are many arguments that are raised against an actual appearance of Samuel. They are as follows:
1. Why Speak To Saul This Way?
Saul had earlier attempted to inquire of the Lord but He would not speak to him through the biblically ordained means? Why then would the Lord speak to Saul through a medium at a seance?
2. Bible Condemns Mediums
God has always spoken against consulting mediums in the strongest of terms. Why would He act contrary to what He had previously revealed? Since God does not change, this could not have been an authentic appearance of Samuel.
3. Strange Place For Miracle
This would have been a strange place for God to perform a miracle. There is no similar example in Scripture of God speaking His Word in the midst of such an obvious evil situation.
4. Prophecy Did Not Come To Pass
Some have argued that the prediction did not come to pass. Saul was not killed by his enemies, rather he killed himself. Therefore the prophecy was false. Since it was a false prophecy, it could not have been given by God.
5. Dead Cannot Return
Furthermore, the Bible teaches that the dead cannot return to the living. After the death of his son, David testified that the child could not return to him.
Since the Bible teaches the dead cannot return, this could not have been the appearance of dead prophet Samuel.
But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me (2 Samuel 12:23
6. Seems To Give Credence For Spiritism
A final objection to the genuine appearance of Samuel is that it seems to give some sort of credence to the living talking to the dead. If God allowed it on this one occasion, why wouldn't He do it on other occasions? This opens the door for believers to dabble into areas in which God expressly forbids them.
What Did Happen?
If this is the case, then there are basically three things that could have happened when Saul met the medium.
1. A Demonic Spirit Spoke To Saul
It has been argued that the witch actually called up a spirit from the afterlife, but that spirit was not Samuel. It was a demon impersonating Samuel. This demon, impersonating Samuel, told Saul only part of the truth. The Bible teaches that demons are able to utter half-truths. The Book of Acts tells us that a woman who was possessed with an evil spirit followed the Apostle Paul.
Part of what she said was true - the apostles were proclaiming the true way of salvation. However her overall message was one of deception.
While she followed Paul and us, she would cry out, "These men are slaves of the Most High God, who proclaim to you a way of salvation" (Acts 16:17
The text does not represent this as a demon impersonation. If it was a demonic spirit instead of Samuel, why did this spirit tell the entire truth? There were no-half truths in the response of this personage to Saul. This is not consistent with the way demon spirits work. The message sounded like something Samuel himself would have said, if he were still alive. This is one of many signs in the account that it was an authentic appearance of Samuel.
2. It Was A Fake Appearance
There is also the view that the witch faked Samuel's appearance. Saul was tricked into believing that it was really Samuel when it was only some type of deception on the part of the witch. The arguments for this are as follows:
Woman Called A Ventriloquist
The Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament, uses the word eggastrimuthos (ventriloquist) to describe the woman (verse 9) and those who practice the same type of divination. This indicates that she had the ability to deceive people into thinking there was some other personage present by the throwing of her voice.
Probably Recognized Saul
Though she pretended ignorance, she probably recognized Saul from the beginning. We should not assume that his disguise fooled her.
Saul Prevented From Viewing Samuel
In addition, it was only she that saw Samuel. Saul did not. He was prevented from viewing the spirit. Consequently she only pretended to be surprised by the appearance of Samuel when, most likely, she saw nothing.
Relied On What She Said
Since the king saw and heard nothing, he had to rely on the woman to tell him what this spirit was saying. He did not converse directly to Samuel.
Not A Great Prediction
To say that Saul would die the next day in battle was not any great prediction seeing that they were outnumbered by the Philistines.
Saul Killed Himself
Finally, Saul did not die by the hand of the Philistines the next day, he killed himself after he had been wounded.
All these arguments have lead many to assume we have a hoax on the part of the woman and not a genuine appearance of Samuel.