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Thread: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

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    Default Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    I would like to differentiate between what I see as easy believism and true biblical faith.
    Many things, such as healing, are NOT easy to believe for, since we are so well trained to believe what is in the natural. To most, that is more true than a promise in the word of God.
    Have you ever heard someone say, "I thought God was going to heal me,but ..." and the reasons why God didn't heal them vary. Some of the reasons are, it wasn't His will or He said, no, or not right now,or He's trying to teach you something, or He's testing your faith and so on.
    What about the person who says,"So and so was the most Godly, holy, and faithful prayer warrior that I ever knew, and when they got sick or had a wasting disease,and they prayed for God to heal them and God didn't heal them. If anyone had faith for their healing it would have been them."?
    Did they really?
    What about the guy who asked Jesus if He could help him with his son,which caused him to have epileptic seizures and mental problems? When Jesus said, "If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth."
    And the father said something I would say fits most who say they believed but did not.

    Mar 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

    Why would the father tell Jesus to help his unbelief or doubt?
    How can a person both believe and doubt at the same time?
    Did the father of the boy have faith for his son to be delivered, without wavering or without any doubts? I ask because James says, "And let not that person THINK that they should receive ANYTHING of the lord."
    The answer is an obvious and resounding, NO. But God is merciful, and because of Jesus' faith, the boy was delivered.
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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    What about the woman with the issue of blood? What was the difference between her and all those who were thronging Jesus? Weren't they believing the same as the woman with the issue of blood? If they were, then you could accuse God of being partial, having respect to or favoring some over others. But we know different, for it is written that, "God is a respecter of no persons." Isn't that right?
    Keep in mine that virtue went out of Jesus for the woman only, not to those who were thronging Him. And it was the virtue that issued out of Jesus that did the healing.
    So is it possible for a person to think they or others have or had faith, when they didn't?
    My personal thoughts are that they didn't, because if they did, then God would have no choice but to heal them, as He did to the woman with the issue of blood.
    If a person simply believes that Jesus is the savior of the world and does nothing with it, they are not, nor will they be,saved.
    Simply believing, accomplishes nothing, and absolutely nothing will happen.
    If you are wondering what the will of God is, then you again, will not be able to have faith for the thing you prayed for.
    Let's say you are believing that some medication or treatment will help or save you or a loved one's life. And you ask God to use these natural things to help. Can God work with that? Absolutely!!!
    Did God do the healing? No, but He could prevent the person's body from rejecting the medication or treatment that you are believing will help.
    It might not be the highest form of faith, but it is faith in God and the the things of the natural. God can then work with the faith you have in the natural to make the person better.

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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    Faith is ACTING on what you believe.
    You can believe medication will help, but until you take the medication,nothing will happen. Faith is the same way.
    The believing God speaks of in the bible REQUIRES ACTION,as it is a verb.
    How many people have you ever prayed for to receive Christ and it happened immediately?
    The truth is, those are rare occurrences. But did you quit or give up?
    So why would it be any different for our healing or that of a loved one?
    The truth is you don't believe the person is well or healed and that is why you sought medical help. Again, the truth is you still believe the person is sick. Isn't that the very reason why you sought medical attention in the first place? The reason why you sought medical help proves you were acting on what you truly believe in your heart. And then you try to tell me or others that you were believing for yours or your loved one's healing. No you weren't!!! You were hoping or wishing God would heal you or them!!! What you say and do will determine what you truly believe. And that is what God sees.
    So stop trying to fool everyone into thinking that that faith stuff don't work, when you had no faith for the healing in the first place.
    One important note. I have heard of some who have rejected medication because they are believing for healing. Whether it be for themselves or a loved one, if there is no faith in the heart, their actions will be futile, and could be fatal.
    So faith without action or works is dead or useless, and actions or works without faith in the heart is the same and will produce the same results. NOTHING!!!
    That is why some who refuse medical help, die. It's not that faith didn't work. It's because they didn't have faith to start with or didn't know how to act on it.
    There is another reason why many don't receive, and that is because they haven't repented of perhaps a particular sin. Sickness and disease isthe fruit of sin, and because we are not automatically forgiven of sins or the curse of it, as many think, they can't get heal.
    Until the person repents of their sins, it will not be forgiven them. And until they are forgiven of their sins, the curse will remain. And until the curse is removed, they will be hard pressed to get their healing.
    We are not automatically forgiven of our sins just because we are born again.Though our salvation is secure, for the most part, our life in the natural will be under a curse of and from God. And that curse could be anything that causes bad or evil things to take place. If you notice a pattern of bad events taking place, then most likely, it is due to a curse in your life.

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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    If I am understanding you correctly are you basically saying that if we pray for healing and it doesn't happen we did not have enough faith?
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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    So it's not just faith that is required to get one's healing, but being forgiven of sins or a particular sin. But once we repent and confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness and restore us to fellowship.
    Will God hold a sin against us? If we refuse to turn from it, then yes.Then the blood of Jesus cannot cleanse us from all sin.
    Only the believer is to repent from dead works in order to receive God's forgiveness, but the nonbeliever is required to repent from doubt and thinking that he does not need a savior, to believing and receiving Jesus, but they are not require to repent of their dead works for salvation.
    Have any of you persistently praised God for someone's healing even though you knew they were still ill and you saw no change?
    That is true faith. And that is one form of what the bible refers to as"fighting the good fight of faith".

    If you are believing God will heal you or a loved one, then you've missed it.
    Next time you pray, keep the below scripture in mind.

    Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath,[that which he has] shall be given,and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall betaken away even that which he hath.

    Therefore,if you don't already have it, it shall not be given. If you are not already [healed or delivered], then you will not be. If you don't yet see it [the thing you prayed for], then you will not see it in the natural.
    Everything you have, are, see, and/or hear, must first BE in your heart.
    If you don't believe in your heart and see, speak, and act as though the person IS healed, and NOT someday or after you see improvement, but ARE healed NOW,the outcome will most likely be unfavorable.
    Will be or some day is not faith, but hope.
    NOW faith is, or faith is now, as in present tense. Hoping or wishing for something to happen, is future tense. In other words, it's not faith.
    Again, if you don't know the will of God concerning healing, you will not, nor do you, have any faith for God to heal.
    So in conclusion, the bible says that those who do not believe,according to scriptural faith or believing, will not move the hand of God.
    One more thing. If you are waiting for God to move first before you believe you are healed, or if you pray, "if it be your will,lord...", then you will be their for a very long time. Again,you are waiting for God to do something first, and that is NOT faith.
    God'sword IS His will.
    God's faith acts on His word or promises, not according to what you first observe in the natural.
    So does anyone think otherwise?

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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    If I am understanding you correctly are you basically saying that if we pray for healing and it doesn't happen we did not have enough faith?
    No sir. That is only one aspect to receiving one's healing, as it is written, "without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him. We still have to believe, but that is only one must have and do.

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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    Quote Originally Posted by know1 View Post
    No sir. That is only one aspect to receiving one's healing, as it is written, "without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him. We still have to believe, but that is only one must have and do.
    Keep in mind, that healing is not as easy to believe for as salvation.

    Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
    Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

    For one to believe for their healing, they must train the senses by reason of use to not believe what they feel, see, or are currently experiencing. Some things are easier to believe for than other things. Some things take longer to get to where one needs to be to get their healing, but God never says no. NEVER!!!

    Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

    If God commands you to give to everyone that asks you for something, then is He a hypocrite that He should not do the same?
    And if it is something good such as for healing, HOW MUCH THE MORE!!!

    Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
    Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
    Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
    Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
    Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
    The Golden Rule
    Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.


    This isn't about whether or not you received your healing. It's about what the word of God says.

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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    That is why we are simply to pray for the will of the Heavenly Father to be done.....Jesus was clear...Our Heavenly Father knows what we need already.....I have found the more selfless my prayers are the more positive the answer is.....

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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    That is why we are simply to pray for the will of the Heavenly Father to be done.....Jesus was clear...Our Heavenly Father knows what we need already.....I have found the more selfless my prayers are the more positive the answer is.....
    I have found, when I repent and confess first, then command the sickness to go in the name of Jesus and send God's word by quoting it to the foul thing, and reminding God of His promise, the source of the sickness goes, and healing follows. Because the word itself drives it out.
    Again, if you don't know the will of God, you have absolutely NO FAITH. None. And the only way to please God is through faith. If you don't know the will of God concerning one's healing, then you need to go to the word of God and find out first what God's will is. Once you know that, then you can go to God in CONFIDENCE. If you don't know the will of God concerning healing, then you don't know what will happen. You don't know if you will get better or worse. How can one speak boldly if they don't know what God will do? How can you thank God for healing you before you feel any different, when you don't know IF He will heal you or not. Again, no faith.
    This is just one thing needed.

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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    That is why we are simply to pray for the will of the Heavenly Father to be done.....Jesus was clear...Our Heavenly Father knows what we need already.....I have found the more selfless my prayers are the more positive the answer is.....
    There are a couple of things you should stop doing though, and that is first, stop accepting a sickness or disease as God's will for you or a loved one, and second, start calling it what it is, and that would be that it's a curse of God, NOT a blessing, and third, stop thinking that you are suffering for Christ's sake or bearing the cross through the same said curse. If someone is not persecuting you, then you are not suffering for Him or bearing the cross. And if He bore the curse of the law in His own body, being made a curse for us, then why do you think you should do the same?

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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    If you know God's will, act out of faith (by praying and standing on the word), see yourself the way God sees you which is according to Christ because he is in you (this comes by renewing the mind). "Your Kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven".. a lot of people forget that the Kingdom is within them, and God's will, will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Gods will is for people to heal, to give blessings, and everything promised.
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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    Quote Originally Posted by G00WZ View Post
    If you know God's will, act out of faith (by praying and standing on the word), see yourself the way God sees you which is according to Christ because he is in you (this comes by renewing the mind). "Your Kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven".. a lot of people forget that the Kingdom is within them, and God's will, will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Gods will is for people to heal, to give blessings, and everything promised.
    Amen, and well said sir. If people would believe what is written over their situations, they would spare themselves a great deal of grief and afflictions.
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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    Quote Originally Posted by know1 View Post
    Amen, and well said sir. If people would believe what is written over their situations, they would spare themselves a great deal of grief and afflictions.
    We are conditioned in a way that makes it hard to completely agree with God.. probably even moreso in these days. Romans 8.7 talks about it pretty clearly. We have to be committed to renewing our minds like in Romans 12.2 and Ephesians 4.22-24.
    I remember not seeing anything until i started renewing my mind, before i was doing everything out of the wrong mindset and the wrong identity.
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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    I was just referencing Jesus....he is the one who said your Heavenly Father knows what you need and to simply pray thy WILL BE DONE on earth as it is in heaven.....

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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    Quote Originally Posted by G00WZ View Post
    We are conditioned in a way that makes it hard to completely agree with God.. probably even moreso in these days. Romans 8.7 talks about it pretty clearly. We have to be committed to renewing our minds like in Romans 12.2 and Ephesians 4.22-24.
    I remember not seeing anything until i started renewing my mind, before i was doing everything out of the wrong mindset and the wrong identity.
    Part of the process of renewing ones mind is by keeping the word of God before their mind's eye, which is what the bible refers to as the eyes, and in the midst of their heart, by meditating on it day and night and not letting His word depart out of their mouth.
    I meditate on His word, sometimes all day, and I tell God what He promised, all the time in prayer.
    It is true that we are so conditioned to believe what our five physical senses dictate, rather than fighting the good fight of faith with the truth of the gospel.
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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    I was just referencing Jesus....he is the one who said your Heavenly Father knows what you need and to simply pray thy WILL BE DONE on earth as it is in heaven.....
    Yes sir, I think I understood you correctly. In other word, whatever happens will be the will of God. Is that what you are saying?
    You might ask God to heal so and so while asking, "if it be you will Lord". And whatever results, will be what the will of the Father was. Do I have that correct?

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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    Many pentecostals don't believe that way. That's WOF. God's people are led by the Spirit to know what to do in any given situation. Without the Holy Spirit, we know nothing, we are nothing.

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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    I don't think it works quite like that know1. Yes having faith is vital but it's not the measure of our faith that it will happen that matters it's the faith we have in him. Do you know why jesus healed that mans son even though he even admitted to have unbelief? It was because he saw the mans belief in him

    There is someone very precious to me who suffers from severe fibromyalgia she also has a severe heart condition and her body is worn out from all it's been through yet she gives everything for others she goes to the church nearly every day to volunteer she takes and picks up the kids to and from school as well taking care of them she goes shopping and makes and cooks dinner and even does chores around the house while helping take care of the houses bills all this while feeling absolutely horrible and in unbearable pain.
    I have prayed for her healing many times I never had doubt that he could do it and I told him that while I deeply desire for him to heal her I will trust him regardless what his answer is. He never once said yes but I kept my word and trusted him in his answer, to trust him in his answer even if your denied your request over and over and over again is not one who lacks faith.

    My guess is that he intends to use all this pain of hers for his and her glory just as he has used my gruesome past to encourage others and to light the fire in their hearts. Healing is in fact a gift i have coveted though I don't have it at the moment I cannot bear to see others suffering and I will go through whatever I have to so they don't have to suffer but he has yet to give mt this gift even though I know one day he will. But you see a lot of times it's not because we are lacking faith in any way in fact we can believe fully with all out hearts however sometimes his ways are not our ways and the answer is no
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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    I don't think it works quite like that know1. Yes having faith is vital but it's not the measure of our faith that it will happen that matters it's the faith we have in him. Do you know why jesus healed that mans son even though he even admitted to have unbelief? It was because he saw the mans belief in him

    There is someone very precious to me who suffers from severe fibromyalgia she also has a severe heart condition and her body is worn out from all it's been through yet she gives everything for others she goes to the church nearly every day to volunteer she takes and picks up the kids to and from school as well taking care of them she goes shopping and makes and cooks dinner and even does chores around the house while helping take care of the houses bills all this while feeling absolutely horrible and in unbearable pain.
    I have prayed for her healing many times I never had doubt that he could do it and I told him that while I deeply desire for him to heal her I will trust him regardless what his answer is. He never once said yes but I kept my word and trusted him in his answer, to trust him in his answer even if your denied your request over and over and over again is not one who lacks faith.

    My guess is that he intends to use all this pain of hers for his and her glory just as he has used my gruesome past to encourage others and to light the fire in their hearts. Healing is in fact a gift i have coveted though I don't have it at the moment I cannot bear to see others suffering and I will go through whatever I have to so they don't have to suffer but he has yet to give mt this gift even though I know one day he will. But you see a lot of times it's not because we are lacking faith in any way in fact we can believe fully with all out hearts however sometimes his ways are not our ways and the answer is no
    Sir, you are a precious man of God with a kind soul, and I mean no disrespect to you. So do not think that I am attacking you in any way. I am just telling you as I see it. So if I may...
    A few years ago, I asked God what the purpose of repentance was for, and I heard, one of the three reasons He gave was for healing and deliverance. People don't like to hear this, but we, as Christians, are not automatically forgiven of our sins after conversion. Repentance from dead works is not for the wicked, but for the children of God.
    We move out of God's grace when we get into sin, and at that time, a curse is put on us. Our salvation is not affected, but our right standing with God is. We are not told for nothing to confess our sins that we may be CLEANSED of our sins and ALL unrighteousness. Once cleansed through repentance and confession, we are then made right with God through the blood of Jesus. That is where the blood comes in. We are not redeemed from the curse of the law of sin automatically. There is a condition attached to that statement, and it is TO THOSE WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.
    I don't know how long this friend of yours has had this condition, if it was from a child or if the person is an adult and the condition came on them late in life. It does matter, because sin was the cause of it. Regardless of whose sin it was, the person needs to repent of all sins they've committed and that of their parent's as well, to the fourth generation.
    Once that is done, the bible says to resist the devil, and he will flee.
    To resist the devil we need to use the same word that was with power as Jesus used, to drive out the worker of the curse, in Jesus' name. But you have to know that when you command the thing to leave, God has driven it out, by the same word that was sent. And since, in most cases we don't know what the name of the thing is, describe what it is has been doing in the person's body, to direct your command of faith. And the word that was sent will drive the thing out, according to the word of God.
    After that, then ask God to restore any part of the person's body that the disease destroyed, and you will fine the person no longer has the condition any longer. God's word works.
    The word of God does not say maybe or "NO" for an answer to those who use His promises, for all His promises are yea and amen to those who are in Christ Jesus. Jesus said the Father gets glory when we bear much fruit. This does not include going to church and doing good things for others while suffering afflictions in our bodies. The Father gets glory through works that He does through us.
    The person could be healed if they had the right information. It is not God's will for them to remain as is, and do not use the results you've obtain to determine the will of God.
    Please take no offense to this sir, but I can tell you, based on what you said that you don't have the faith for your friend's healing. One reason is because, you failed to believe one of the things God said in His word. That being in Mk 11:24. You have to believe it has been done WHEN YOU PRAYED, not when you see the results change.
    Again, Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
    What that is saying is, "for EVERYONE that has [their healing][past tense], [that which they have] shall be given,..."
    You have to believe you have something before it is given. If it is for an unclean spirit to be driven out then you must believe it is done when you commanded it to leave. If it is for healing, then you have to believe the same.

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    Default Re: Easy believism vs. true biblical faith

    Quote Originally Posted by know1 View Post
    Sir, you are a precious man of God with a kind soul, and I mean no disrespect to you. So do not think that I am attacking you in any way. I am just telling you as I see it. So if I may...
    A few years ago, I asked God what the purpose of repentance was for, and I heard, one of the three reasons He gave was for healing and deliverance. People don't like to hear this, but we, as Christians, are not automatically forgiven of our sins after conversion. Repentance from dead works is not for the wicked, but for the children of God.
    We move out of God's grace when we get into sin, and at that time, a curse is put on us. Our salvation is not affected, but our right standing with God is. We are not told for nothing to confess our sins that we may be CLEANSED of our sins and ALL unrighteousness. Once cleansed through repentance and confession, we are then made right with God through the blood of Jesus. That is where the blood comes in. We are not redeemed from the curse of the law of sin automatically. There is a condition attached to that statement, and it is TO THOSE WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.
    I don't know how long this friend of yours has had this condition, if it was from a child or if the person is an adult and the condition came on them late in life. It does matter, because sin was the cause of it. Regardless of whose sin it was, the person needs to repent of all sins they've committed and that of their parent's as well, to the fourth generation.
    Once that is done, the bible says to resist the devil, and he will flee.
    To resist the devil we need to use the same word that was with power as Jesus used, to drive out the worker of the curse, in Jesus' name. But you have to know that when you command the thing to leave, God has driven it out, by the same word that was sent. And since, in most cases we don't know what the name of the thing is, describe what it is has been doing in the person's body, to direct your command of faith. And the word that was sent will drive the thing out, according to the word of God.
    After that, then ask God to restore any part of the person's body that the disease destroyed, and you will fine the person no longer has the condition any longer. God's word works.
    The word of God does not say maybe or "NO" for an answer to those who use His promises, for all His promises are yea and amen to those who are in Christ Jesus. Jesus said the Father gets glory when we bear much fruit. This does not include going to church and doing good things for others while suffering afflictions in our bodies. The Father gets glory through works that He does through us.
    The person could be healed if they had the right information. It is not God's will for them to remain as is, and do not use the results you've obtain to determine the will of God.
    Please take no offense to this sir, but I can tell you, based on what you said that you don't have the faith for your friend's healing. One reason is because, you failed to believe one of the things God said in His word. That being in Mk 11:24. You have to believe it has been done WHEN YOU PRAYED, not when you see the results change.
    Again, Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
    What that is saying is, "for EVERYONE that has [their healing][past tense], [that which they have] shall be given,..."
    You have to believe you have something before it is given. If it is for an unclean spirit to be driven out then you must believe it is done when you commanded it to leave. If it is for healing, then you have to believe the same.


    Ty for your kind words my friend but believe me I didn't used to be so soft hearted the credit is to him alone. But II have heard of this kind of faith in action you speak and how sin hinders and stops it and while I cannot fully say it's true for everyone I have seen it happen and work but at the same time I have also seen it not work and of course I have seen prayers answered with faith as small as a mustard seed yet their belief in him made all the difference.

    I don't think it's sin that is stopping her from being healed as I personally don't believe sin has any power over us and she has a very kind and repentant heart. But not all sickness is a cause of sin after all the man who was ill when the crowd asked Jesus what sin was committed for his suffering Jesus responded it was not sin but rather for the glory of God to be shown and healed the man.

    As for lacking faith you are right and wrong, I do not have the faith to ask for something and fully believe I will receive and perhaps one day I will but I have seen amazing things happens when I pray believing solely in his strength not my own, not every prayer is answered yes even with the purest intent. I lack the faith in my myself but I don't in him and I have learned that often times what seems like something bad he is actually turning into good. The way I see I have made my request to him and handed him the authority for that request it's in his hands now should he choose to heal her then fantastic if not then i will trust him still for things are hardly ever as they seem especially when it comes to him
    My life's testimony seems to have helped many people so I am going to put it here http://christianchat.com/testimonies...-new-post.html

    When the hearts of God and a child of his make that special intimate connection a wondrous power is born and a flame ignites that can never be put out

    Jesus knew more than anyone of us-Love hurts

    The strongest among you may not wear a crown

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