all works are not created equal

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know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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Yes there is. "Good works" is real, and what Christ works in and through we who are living by faith in Him. "Works of faith" is just something that you made up.
Thank you sir. I was wondering why none of you could even see it. According to what you just said, the thing doesn't even exist. Also, according to you and others, if a person doesn't have Christ, they cannot have good works. You do know that no one was born again before Christ's ascension, right? So what do you call the acts done by Abraham and all the others written in the old testament? They didn't have Christ, neither were they born again, and yet they did great acts of faith. So it can't only be people who are born again that can do good works. And for the record, you should know that there is a thing called works of faith. A work done in faith is a work of faith. What all of you are describing, concerning the works you do, is simply good works that don't require any or much faith, nor any of God's intervention to accomplish the work.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
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What is it about the Holy Spirit that you don't understand? What is it about being moved by the Holy Spirit that does not make it an act of faith?

Fighting the good fight? I walked into a house where 20+ guys were going to beat the crap out of one person. I walked in, grabbed the victim, and we walked out unscathed. How's that grab your cookies regarding faith? I shall not be afraid of ten thousand enemies that wish to kill me. Read the Psalms.
I have read the Psalms, and praise God of them. That one is good sir, and a real act of faith. And God did according to what you believed and acted on. You believed God will protect you and when you acted on that belief, God made sure that both you and the other person were protected. That is what I have been trying to address. If you didn't act on your faith in God to protect you or if you did so in doubt or fear, then God would not have been obligated to protect you both.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
Thank you sir. I was wondering why none of you could even see it. According to what you just said, the thing doesn't even exist. Also, according to you and others, if a person doesn't have Christ, they cannot have good works. You do know that no one was born again before Christ's ascension, right? So what do you call the acts done by Abraham and all the others written in the old testament? They didn't have Christ, neither were they born again, and yet they did great acts of faith. So it can't only be people who are born again that can do good works. And for the record, you should know that there is a thing called works of faith. A work done in faith is a work of faith. What all of you are describing, concerning the works you do, is simply good works that don't require any or much faith, nor any of God's intervention to accomplish the work.
There's that old humanistic lie of the garden raising its ugly head once again. :rolleyes:
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
I have read the Psalms, and praise God of them. That one is good sir, and a real act of faith. And God did according to what you believed and acted on. You believed God will protect you and when you acted on that belief, God made sure that both you and the other person were protected. That is what I have been trying to address. If you didn't act on your faith in God to protect you or if you did so in doubt or fear, then God would not have been obligated to protect you both.
God "obligated"??.......... Naw
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
God "obligated"??.......... Naw
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Jer 1:12 Then said the LORD unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it.

Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Jos 23:14 And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, and not one thing hath failed thereof.

Eze 24:14 I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back [on my word], neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord GOD.

Yes, God is obligated to perform His word, which is a promise, being a truth and a law that cannot be broken. God CANNOT go back on His word or fail to perform ANY of the promises He made. He CANNOT!!!
If God tells us to give to everyone that asks of us, will He do otherwise? If you being a sinner saved by grace know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will God give good things to His. It is written that ALL the promises of God in Christ Jesus are yea and amen. None of them are or say, no, not even one. Again, it is written that God will not suffer His faithfulness to fail and we are told to hold fast to the confession of our faith, (not of the christian faith but of faith) for He is faithful who promised.
If you all could stop using God as your excuse for not receiving and stop looking at the natural as though it dictates what God does or will do, along with your carnal reasoning, and start looking at yourselves and the things YOU do as the cause for many of your problems and start looking at His word as the solution to your problems, you might actually get some things you pray for. Why you would prefer to believe that God wants you and your children sick over good health, I don't know. Or why He would want you and your loved ones to be cursed by suffering lack and want and to be afflicted over being bless, again, I don't know. But to tell others the same, is blasphemous toward God and His word, Jesus, and shows how little you believe the word of God or that which is written, and how little you trust God to do what He said. I constantly hear contradicting things. I hear you say that you believe the bible and trust God, then say that God will not do what he said or perform His promises based on your natural or carnal reasoning and the testimonies of other people's failures. Wisdom is justified of her children, and you prove that you that believe as the above describes are none of her's.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
There's that old humanistic lie of the garden raising its ugly head once again. :rolleyes:
I see you world rather make sarcastic remarks instead of proving me wrong. When ever I back any of those who believe as you do, into a corner, all I get are cute phrases and sarcasm. If what you say could be backed up with scripture proving me wrong, like the things I say to you and others have been, then I certainly wouldn't have a problem changing my doctrine. But the fact that you cannot explain away simple things or questions that I present, proves that you chose to be deceived and deceitful to others.
Again, I proved with scripture that we do not have to be born again to do good works, because no one was born again before Jesus' ascension, and there are many accounts written in the old testament of people doing good works, as you call them. That one was ignored and went without comment.
I proved that we are the initiators of faith or works of faith with two examples in scripture and those were ignored and went without comment as well.
Why is that? Why is it so hard for you and others to change what you believe, when I have proven with scripture time and time again the contrary to that which you say? Why do you continually ignore the scriptures I present? And Why can you not see the works of faith being different from the works of the law? To me, they all add up to one thing. I have found that you cannot reason away someone's fear. As it is a spirit that causes that particular fear. And so it is with all, that as the spirit is in the person, so is the person.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
I see you world rather make sarcastic remarks instead of proving me wrong. When ever I back any of those who believe as you do, into a corner, all I get are cute phrases and sarcasm. If what you say could be backed up with scripture proving me wrong, like the things I say to you and others have been, then I certainly wouldn't have a problem changing my doctrine. But the fact that you cannot explain away simple things or questions that I present, proves that you chose to be deceived and deceitful to others.
Again, I proved with scripture that we do not have to be born again to do good works, because no one was born again before Jesus' ascension, and there are many accounts written in the old testament of people doing good works, as you call them. That one was ignored and went without comment.
I proved that we are the initiators of faith or works of faith with two examples in scripture and those were ignored and went without comment as well.
Why is that? Why is it so hard for you and others to change what you believe, when I have proven with scripture time and time again the contrary to that which you say? Why do you continually ignore the scriptures I present? And Why can you not see the works of faith being different from the works of the law? To me, they all add up to one thing. I have found that you cannot reason away someone's fear. As it is a spirit that causes that particular fear. And so it is with all, that as the spirit is in the person, so is the person.
Sarcastic? Nonsense. That is as serious as a heart attack.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Jer 1:12 Then said the LORD unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it.

Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Jos 23:14 And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, and not one thing hath failed thereof.

Eze 24:14 I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back [on my word], neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord GOD.

Yes, God is obligated to perform His word, which is a promise, being a truth and a law that cannot be broken. God CANNOT go back on His word or fail to perform ANY of the promises He made. He CANNOT!!!
If God tells us to give to everyone that asks of us, will He do otherwise? If you being a sinner saved by grace know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will God give good things to His. It is written that ALL the promises of God in Christ Jesus are yea and amen. None of them are or say, no, not even one. Again, it is written that God will not suffer His faithfulness to fail and we are told to hold fast to the confession of our faith, (not of the christian faith but of faith) for He is faithful who promised.
If you all could stop using God as your excuse for not receiving and stop looking at the natural as though it dictates what God does or will do, along with your carnal reasoning, and start looking at yourselves and the things YOU do as the cause for many of your problems and start looking at His word as the solution to your problems, you might actually get some things you pray for. Why you would prefer to believe that God wants you and your children sick over good health, I don't know. Or why He would want you and your loved ones to be cursed by suffering lack and want and to be afflicted over being bless, again, I don't know. But to tell others the same, is blasphemous toward God and His word, Jesus, and shows how little you believe the word of God or that which is written, and how little you trust God to do what He said. I constantly hear contradicting things. I hear you say that you believe the bible and trust God, then say that God will not do what he said or perform His promises based on your natural or carnal reasoning and the testimonies of other people's failures. Wisdom is justified of her children, and you prove that you that believe as the above describes are none of her's.
God is not obligated to do anything. :rolleyes:
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
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This does not prove that God will heal ANYONE. and that ALL will be healed.

All it does it prove that when Jesus was doing the thing the OT said HE would do when he came, Jesus can only heal those who have faith. Same goes for our spiritual healing, he wants ot heal all. But not everyone will be healed.
Scripture does not say that Jesus' stripes were for our spiritual healing. That is not written. You added that as a reason why everyone does not get healed. Let's face another fact. Very few Christians get their healing. Another fact is that it is much easier for most people, including Christian, to blame or condemn others for their problems, even putting blame on God and perverting His word to say the same, while condemning those who say otherwise.
If a doctrine is true, then there would not be ANY inconsistencies in scripture. But if someone raises some inconsistencies with scripture and that goes ignored, unchallenged, or reasoned away WITHOUT SCRIPTURE, then how can anyone who claims to be a child of the Spirit of Truth, actually be His child? To me, all who do such things, are the tares AMONG the wheat. Jesus said, "you shall know them by THEIR fruit." I suppose one should ask if this is good fruit or bad.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
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Sarcastic? Nonsense. That is as serious as a heart attack.
Serious sarcasm is the same as making a sarcastic remark. But regardless of that, as I could care less, what I would like to know, is why you continue to dodge and ignore what I presented. I used scripture, without perverting or twisting it, and you ignored it as though it is such a ridiculous question. If you don't have any answers for the questions that I have presented and asked you to explain, then why can't you just say so? And if that be the case, then why wouldn't you even look at what I have been saying to see IF it is the truth or not? None of you have. Not even one. I don't mind being questioned, what I detest is the fact that most of you first, don't even seek God concerning the subject of discussion, and second, don't even seek God to find the truth without your biases, and third, argue about things you don't even know. How could you even think that God would reveal a truth to you, when you have already reject it as a lie. Can two walk together accept they be agreed? The answer is a resounding NO. And so it is with the word of God. Whatsoever you reject, you cannot receive. If it is indeed the truth, then you will not be able to receive it. That is one way the devil blinds the eyes of God's children from receiving the truth, if in fact they are His children. So I ask you why would you not even seek God with a pure and honest heart on the subject? If you are of God, why would you not want to know the truth, and how would you think to obtain the truth with such biases. I believe you see me and the doctrines I present you with as that of a Mormon or that of a Catholic or that of a JW. And because you see me and that which I present as being that of a cult, you have refused to even look at it. You argue without knowing the subject. I argue what I know. If I didn't, I would say so. You believe as you do, because so many in authority believe as you do, and you have learned from them. I believe as I do, because I went to God and His word. If something can be proven otherwise with scripture and not human reasoning or that of the natural, as I have done in the past I would do so now publicly. I would confess openly, admitting that I was wrong, and change my doctrine. But when no one can prove what I say as false, why would I even consider changing? To be accepted by you and others?! How weak, and what a weasel that would make me. I would rather be condemned by the many or majority, than to agree with the same for the sake of a few kudos and/or to be accepted. My conscience would not permit me to stoop so low.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
God is not obligated to do anything. :rolleyes:
So much for trusting God to do what He said. So much for the word of God being the rock of our salvation. So much for building your house on a strong foundation. So much for faith and confident assurance. So much for knowing the will of God. So much for truth. So much for God's faithfulness.
If God is not obligated, then you sir, do not know whether or not you are born again. What do you think the scripture that says, He cannot deny Himself, means? If Jesus is the word of God, and He is, and the word of God is the truth, and it is, then how can God deny Himself? And how can you believe God will perform the word He spoke if He refuse to keep His promise?
It is a promise or not? If it is, then one must ask first, if He lied or not, and second, if He can lie or not? If the answer to both questions is, not, then how can He refuse to perform His promise? And How can you even claim to have any faith or trust in God and His word with something so ridiculous as that? Please explain sir, because that make absolutely zero sense to me.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
So much for trusting God to do what He said. So much for the word of God being the rock of our salvation. So much for building your house on a strong foundation. So much for faith and confident assurance. So much for knowing the will of God. So much for truth. So much for God's faithfulness.
If God is not obligated, then you sir, do not know whether or not you are born again. What do you think the scripture that says, He cannot deny Himself, means? If Jesus is the word of God, and He is, and the word of God is the truth, and it is, then how can God deny Himself? And how can you believe God will perform the word He spoke if He refuse to keep His promise?
It is a promise or not? If it is, then one must ask first, if He lied or not, and second, if He can lie or not? If the answer to both questions is, not, then how can He refuse to perform His promise? And How can you even claim to have any faith or trust in God and His word with something so ridiculous as that? Please explain sir, because that make absolutely zero sense to me.
So much for you making God obligated to you, instead of properly understanding that it is you who is obligated to God.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
So much for you making God obligated to you, instead of properly understanding that it is you who is obligated to God.
What I am obligated to do is to walk in love toward God and man, to walk in the Spirit or as I am directed by the Spirit, and to believe God and His word.

Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

If I believe God for the impossible, using His word as the foundation of my faith, how is that wrong or a sin before God. Didn't you do the very same thing to receive your salvation? Did you first ask God if it was His will for you to get saved. Did you even know if it was His will for you. The answers to those questions, and to all who are born again, is a big fat, no. We just expect God to receive us by His grace. And even that is His promise to us. We are require to believe on Jesus, and Jesus IS the Word of God. So if I act on the promises of God, then aren't I believing on Jesus? Wouldn't He rather I trust Him to do the impossible for me than to not even step out in faith? I would think so.
 
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