Page 1 of 12 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 226
Like Tree142Likes

Bible Discussion Forum

Ask (or answer) Bible questions here. Join or start a Bible discussion now!

Thread: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    January 5th, 2017
    Age
    60
    Posts
    779
    Rep Power
    8

    Default No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    In the Olivet Discourse which Jesus delivered two days before He went to the cross, the disciples came to Jesus asking Him what they should look for in the last days.

    Jesus told them they would see the "abomination of desolation", followed by a time of "great tribulation" for believers...and that would be followed by a "gathering of the elect" whereby the angels will supernaturally gather believers away from earth and "from one of the heavens to the other".

    In other words, this will be a supernatural translation...i.e. a rapture. And it is a rapture which occurs AFTER the time of "tribulation".

    A description of a "pre-tribulation" rapture is found nowhere in the Bible. It is non-existent on the pages of Scripture.

    According to Jesus' plain description in the Olivet Discourse, the time of tribulation commences on the occasion of the "abomination of desolation"...almost universally understood to occur at the middle point of the seven year period, the 70th Week of Daniel.

    The time of tribulation for believers ends on the occasion of hugely dramatic cosmic disturbances - "the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky" - Matthew 24:29.

    Thus, Jesus is quoting an oft recurring passage/statement found throughout the OT which describes the commencing of God's wrath upon the wicked:

    Joel 2:31 - "the sun will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and awesome Day of the Lord comes".

    In other words, according to Jesus, the "gathering of the elect" rapture occurs just moments after these huge cosmic disturbances...and THEN will the wrath of God (i.e. the Day of the Lord) commence. God's people are removed before the wrath of God but NOT before the wrath of the Devil and the hatred of the world is visited upon them.

    The Olivet Discourse is so simple, I asked my little 12-year-old daughter to read it. It took her a mere 15 minutes, and when she was done she has a good grasp of all the important aspects of the events of the last days.

    This not rocket science. Jesus has made the facts of the end times very simple and very straightforward. Some of the comments I have read on various discussion boards...with people talking about the fourth seal and the seventh bowl and the twelfth whistle...oy vey.
    Last edited by MattTooFor; January 9th, 2017 at 04:59 PM.
    Desertsrose likes this.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
    Join Date
    February 7th, 2015
    Age
    72
    Posts
    18,886
    Rep Power
    190

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Since there is no such thing as a Secret Rapture anywhere in the Scripture (Generally, only Americans have been duped into believing in this fable) this is a moot point.
    Depleted, AllenW and Spurgeoncy like this.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    “True eloquence consists of saying all that is necessary, and only that which is .” François Duc De La Rochefoucauld
    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    January 5th, 2017
    Age
    60
    Posts
    779
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Since there is no such thing as a Secret Rapture anywhere in the Scripture (Generally, only Americans have been duped into believing in this fable) this is a moot point.
    Matthew 24:31--"And he will send forth His angels...and they will gather together His elect from the four winds and from one end of the heavens to the other".

    There it is right there : A supernatural translation (i.e. a "rapture) of the believers. In black and white.

    And what do you mean by "secret"? There will be no secret about it. The arrival of the King of Kings to earth is announced with the biggest 'roar' the world has ever seen - oceans in tumult, the sun and moon darkening, a great trumpet sound...and as described in Rev. 6...the unbelievers will cry for the mountains and the rocks to fall on them.

    There is no "secret" about it.
    dcontroversal and Desertsrose like this.

  4. #4
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 12th, 2013
    Age
    50
    Posts
    21,175
    Blog Entries
    5
    Rep Power
    162

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Amen......

    POST TRIBULATION/PRE-WRATH ingathering........!
    Desertsrose likes this.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    January 5th, 2017
    Age
    60
    Posts
    779
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    Amen......

    POST TRIBULATION/PRE-WRATH ingathering........!
    Thanks! But what's the deal with this "no-such-thing-as-a-rapture" guy (2 posts up)? Just curious. I'm a newbie. Never heard of anyone within conservative church circles who flat out dismisses any and all rapture scenarios.

  6. #6
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 12th, 2013
    Age
    50
    Posts
    21,175
    Blog Entries
    5
    Rep Power
    162

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by MattTooFor View Post
    Thanks! But what's the deal with this "no-such-thing-as-as-rapture" guy (2 posts up)? Just curious. I'm a newbie. Never heard of anyone within conservative church circles who flat out dismisses any and all rapture scenarios.
    I cannot speak for Willy, but will say the following and maybe that has something to do with it....

    a) The word rapture is not found in scripture (although applied unto the body presence of Christ and our gathering together)
    b) There is NO SECRET snatching away of the Lord's churches as it will be as visible as lightning cracking in the East and shining unto the West
    Adstar likes this.

  7. #7
    Senior Member PrynceNY's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 16th, 2016
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,837
    Rep Power
    35

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    It's known by those who researched the scriptures & original translations that the "falling away" originally meant departure. There are still some christians that still believe the church is meant to feel Gods wrath of the tribulation. But regardless many don't have their hearts right with the Lord to be taken if it does take place which is unfortunate.
    Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and turn to God, so that your sins may be blotted out, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.
    Ephesians 6:11 - Put on the whole armor of God, so that you can stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    February 24th, 2016
    Age
    54
    Posts
    1,031
    Rep Power
    23

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by PrynceNY View Post
    It's known by those who researched the scriptures & original translations that the "falling away" originally meant departure. There are still some christians that still believe the church is meant to feel Gods wrath of the tribulation. But regardless many don't have their hearts right with the Lord to be taken if it does take place which is unfortunate.
    God's wrath of the tribulation?
    Now that is a new one.
    Wrath and tribulation are two different words with two different meanings.
    Saints will not have to suffer God's wrath but will/have in the past/today suffer tribulation.

  9. #9


    jb
    jb is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    February 27th, 2010
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,454
    Blog Entries
    29
    Rep Power
    17

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post

    a) The word rapture is not found in scripture (although applied unto the body presence of Christ and our gathering together)
    Very true, BUT the Truth is found in different places in Scriptures, even as the word "Trinity" does not appear in the Scriptures, BUT the Truth is EVERYWHERE!

  10. #10
    Senior Member PrynceNY's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 16th, 2016
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,837
    Rep Power
    35

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by Persuaded View Post
    God's wrath of the tribulation? Now that is a new one. Wrath and tribulation are two different words with two different meanings. Saints will not have to suffer God's wrath but will/have in the past/today suffer tribulation.
    The scriptures clearly talks about the tribulation saints and all saints are not tribulation saints. If you believe all saints are meant to go through the tribulation & suffer that's your choice
    Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and turn to God, so that your sins may be blotted out, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.
    Ephesians 6:11 - Put on the whole armor of God, so that you can stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    January 13th, 2016
    Age
    45
    Posts
    3,391
    Rep Power
    31

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by MattTooFor View Post
    Matthew 24:31--"And he will send forth His angels...and they will gather together His elect from the four winds and from one end of the heavens to the other".

    There it is right there : A supernatural translation (i.e. a "rapture) of the believers. In black and white.

    And what do you mean by "secret"? There will be no secret about it. The arrival of the King of Kings to earth is announced with the biggest 'roar' the world has ever seen - oceans in tumult, the sun and moon darkening, a great trumpet sound...and as described in Rev. 6...the unbelievers will cry for the mountains and the rocks to fall on them.

    There is no "secret" about it.
    Matthew 24-25 concerns the nation of Israel during the time of Jacob's trouble, the Tribulation. Before the Lord returns to judge the nations, a catching away of the nation of Israel occurs. The nation of Israel is God's bride. The church is Christ's bride, mostly made up of Gentiles. The church will be caught up before the time of Jacob's trouble. Rightly divide the word of truth.

  12. #12
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 12th, 2013
    Age
    50
    Posts
    21,175
    Blog Entries
    5
    Rep Power
    162

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by PrynceNY View Post
    It's known by those who researched the scriptures & original translations that the "falling away" originally meant departure. There are still some christians that still believe the church is meant to feel Gods wrath of the tribulation. But regardless many don't have their hearts right with the Lord to be taken if it does take place which is unfortunate.

    A common error that leads to faulty conclusions..........WRATH and TRIBULATION are not the SAME thing.....they ARE two different words with two different meanings....

    Tribulation-->thilipsis persecution, put the squeeze on, tribulation, trials, trouble
    WRATH-->ORGE the fiery INDIGNATION of GOD

    The WRATH of GOD is NOT announced until the 7th TRUMP IN HEAVEN as having ARRIVED............at the 6th SEAL the people attempting to HIDE wrongfully attribute what is happening to the WRATH of GOD..................
    Adstar likes this.

  13. #13
    Senior Member PrynceNY's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 16th, 2016
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,837
    Rep Power
    35

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    A common error that leads to faulty conclusions..........WRATH and TRIBULATION are not the SAME thing.....they ARE two different words with two different meanings.... Tribulation-->thilipsis persecution, put the squeeze on, tribulation, trials, trouble WRATH-->ORGE the fiery INDIGNATION of GOD The WRATH of GOD is NOT announced until the 7th TRUMP IN HEAVEN as having ARRIVED............at the 6th SEAL the people attempting to HIDE wrongfully attribute what is happening to the WRATH of GOD..................
    not wrath but judgement
    Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and turn to God, so that your sins may be blotted out, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.
    Ephesians 6:11 - Put on the whole armor of God, so that you can stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

  14. #14
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 12th, 2013
    Age
    50
    Posts
    21,175
    Blog Entries
    5
    Rep Power
    162

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Matthew 24-25 concerns the nation of Israel during the time of Jacob's trouble, the Tribulation. Before the Lord returns to judge the nations, a catching away of the nation of Israel occurs. The nation of Israel is God's bride. The church is Christ's bride, mostly made up of Gentiles. The church will be caught up before the time of Jacob's trouble. Rightly divide the word of truth.
    No, actually he is addressing SAVED, IMMERSED DISCIPLES that have been CALLED OUT and identified as a CHURCH no less that two times in the PRESENT TENSE while he WALKED THE EARTH..............

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    February 24th, 2016
    Age
    54
    Posts
    1,031
    Rep Power
    23

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by PrynceNY View Post
    The scriptures clearly talks about the tribulation saints and all saints are not tribulation saints. If you believe all saints are meant to go through the tribulation & suffer that's your choice
    Have not saints suffered tribulation, even unto death since Jesus established that first church?
    Are not saints suffering tribulation , even unto death in the Middle East today?
    Why is it that saints in the USA believe they are so holy that they are exempt from tribulation?

  16. #16
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 12th, 2013
    Age
    50
    Posts
    21,175
    Blog Entries
    5
    Rep Power
    162

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by Persuaded View Post
    Have not saints suffered tribulation, even unto death since Jesus established that first church?
    Are not saints suffering tribulation , even unto death in the Middle East today?
    Why is it that saints in the USA believe they are so holy that they are exempt from tribulation?
    If you really want to throw a monkey wrench in....the BRIDE is identified as NEW JERUSALEM coming down out of heaven and the Gentiles are identified as GUESTS at the wedding in a parable or two......


    And I agree....the saints have been persecuted from ABEL all the way to the last SAINT who loses his head for a refusal to be identified with the beast and his kingdom........it is ridiculous to say the saints in the end are exempt....it contradicts the last 6000 years of history.....and especially the last 2000 years.......

  17. #17
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 12th, 2013
    Age
    50
    Posts
    21,175
    Blog Entries
    5
    Rep Power
    162

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by PrynceNY View Post
    It's known by those who researched the scriptures & original translations that the "falling away" originally meant departure. There are still some christians that still believe the church is meant to feel Gods wrath of the tribulation. But regardless many don't have their hearts right with the Lord to be taken if it does take place which is unfortunate.
    this belies a split (rapture)....no such thing!

    THE dead in Christ is indicative of ALL of the dead in Christ and WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN is indicative of ALL who are ALIVE and remain unto the body presence of Christ and our gathering......
    Adstar likes this.

  18. #18
    Senior Member PrynceNY's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 16th, 2016
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,837
    Rep Power
    35

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by Persuaded View Post
    Have not saints suffered tribulation, even unto death since Jesus established that first church? Are not saints suffering tribulation , even unto death in the Middle East today? Why is it that saints in the USA believe they are so holy that they are exempt from tribulation?
    Still surprised there are people who still believe God wants the bride of Christ to suffer through the tribulation. The scriptures say the tribulation will far surpass any suffering there ever was on this earth. Yes there's suffering around the world but its nothing compared to the tribulation. No one said anything about being "so holy". If you don't believe the bride will be taken beforehand fine. What truly matters is accepting Christ & living for him. I'm already willing to die for Christ either way
    Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and turn to God, so that your sins may be blotted out, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.
    Ephesians 6:11 - Put on the whole armor of God, so that you can stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

  19. #19
    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 12th, 2013
    Age
    50
    Posts
    21,175
    Blog Entries
    5
    Rep Power
    162

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by PrynceNY View Post
    Still surprised there are people who still believe God wants the bride of Christ to suffer through the tribulation. The scriptures say the tribulation will far surpass any suffering there ever was on this earth. Yes there's suffering around the world but its nothing compared to the tribulation. No one said anything about being "so holy". If you don't believe the bride will be taken beforehand fine. What truly matters is accepting Christ & living for him. I'm already willing to die for Christ either way
    You do realize that your question contradicts itself right......if THE BRIDE is the CHURCH---->has NOT the CHURCH (BRIDE) been suffering persecution since the DAYS of JESUS.......?

    some 60 to 80 million murdered during the DARK AGES alone........!
    MattTooFor likes this.

  20. #20
    Senior Member PrynceNY's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 16th, 2016
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,837
    Rep Power
    35

    Default Re: No such thing as a "pre-tribulation" rapture!

    Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
    You do realize that your question contradicts itself right......if THE BRIDE is the CHURCH---->has NOT the CHURCH (BRIDE) been suffering persecution since the DAYS of JESUS.......? some 60 to 80 million murdered during the DARK AGES alone........!
    You do realise I asked no question right? All of what I said are statements. If you want to believe the bride will go through the tribulation go ahead. I mean you believe in the osas doctrine as well so believe whatever you desire.
    Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and turn to God, so that your sins may be blotted out, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.
    Ephesians 6:11 - Put on the whole armor of God, so that you can stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

Page 1 of 12 12311 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 189
    Last Post: July 12th, 2016, 02:36 PM
  2. The "real" Great Tribulation
    By PlainWord in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: June 29th, 2016, 01:35 PM
  3. Replies: 16
    Last Post: April 12th, 2016, 04:53 PM
  4. Pre Trib Rapture Moment 12: What about a "split Rapture"?
    By ChosenbyHim in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: August 3rd, 2013, 04:11 PM
  5. Post-Trib Model Failure -- Matthew 24:29 "After the tribulation.."
    By A-Omega in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: February 3rd, 2012, 06:13 PM