How long is the tribulation?

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birdie

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
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#21
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

It is ambivalent as to the exact meaning. So I personally cannot say it is X or Y or Z .

The generation means two things. A genea is a blood lineage. A generation is also a period of time.
The blood lineage is clearly the Levites, (or the Levites + Jews
& Benjamites)
The fig tree is actually the symbol of Levi, so let's say it is Levites.

What does
"and to your children, to all that are afar off" mean? Again, ambivalent. It means both the House of Israel, and surely also means the future generations of Jews.....

Save yourselves from this untoward generation clearly has a primary urgent meaning of "save yourselves from the 70th week, (AD 67-73)."
The term generation here does not mean a single reproductive lifespan, the meaning you get in a biology class. The term generation is referring 'this evil generation' or 'this wicked generation' that are religious but reject Christ. It is a type of person typified by the Pharisees but which continue on in the congregations of the church age right on up until all the tribulation events have been fulfilled at the end of the church age. That is why we are told that this generation will not pass away until all the tribulation events have been fulfilled. A couple verses mentioning them are:

"A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas."

"O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh."

The phrase you ask about concerning the promise to the true believers and to their children and unto all that are afar off, is a phrase meaning all the true believers in Christ have this promise of life in Christ. The term 'afar off' is used to describe all over the earth where true believers are allowed to hear the gospel unto salvation, and particularly as they have escaped the spiritual downfall of congregations of the church age, typified by Babylon. "Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come."

"And all his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Galilee, stood afar off, beholding these things."

"And came and preached peace to you which were afar off"

"remember the LORD afar off"

and so forth
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#22
The Holy city is not indicative of the temple mount necessarily......and a very interesting concept is found in the possibility that the Jews will set up more of a tabernacle near the spring which is below the temple mount rather than build a temple per se....
I agree with that, but since Jerusalem is still divided then the holy city is still be tread under foot of Gentiles. No?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#23
How about if we include verse 1 with verse 2.

Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.

Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.

During this time there will be a temple to be measured also. There hasn't been a temple in Jerusalem for quite some time.

During this time the Gentiles will have control of Jerusalem. They don't yet. Also, it will be a time when the two witnesses will prophecy and do miracles for 42 months also.
The mesuring rod was Christ and he wasn't measuring physical things.... why would he? What spiritual significance would there be in measuring a physical temple? Seriously, why God have someone measure a physical temple already built?

Revelation 11:1 KJV
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.


Here is the reed that was like a measuring rod:

Isaiah 42:3 KJV
A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
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#24
The mesuring rod was Christ and he wasn't measuring physical things


Please show the how you came to the conclusion that measuring rod is symbolic for Christ.

What spiritual significance would there be in measuring a physical temple?


If you will take notice, after John was told to go and measure the temple and count the worshipers, neither the measurement nor the number of worshipers is given. The verse is specifically to let the reader know that there will be a temple during the later days.

Here is the reed that was like a measuring rod:

Isaiah 42:3 KJV
A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
The two verses above have nothing to do with each other and should not be misapplied.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#25
Off to work, I may partially participate on phone... but that sooo hard. Have nice day.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#27
The generation that Jesus was referring to, was not the generation that he was speaking from, which would be grammatically incorrect, but generation where those signs begin to take place. One they begin, that generation will not be completed until all of those signs have taken place, with Christ returning at the end of them.
I would say it’s the generation of Christ the last days which began with the renting of the veil to indicate Christ had come in the flesh. This is when where those signs begin to take place.Christ coming on the last day the last resurrection.

Why would God rebuild that which he tore down rendering it useless because of the time of reformation had come? Another demonstration?

What time period was the reformation restored to I would think would be question that must be answered? The Jews assume it has not occurred and its business as usual.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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#28
Good question.

What is "42 months"

42 months = 1260 days.

Now, because we are talking about the Temple, with morning and evening sacrifices, (Daniel 8:14), the multiply/divide by 2 principle comes into play.

John 11 9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day?

So, 12 = 24 hours.

Therefore, 1260 days = 2520 days.

Now, applying Ezekiel's day to a year principle. (Ezekiel 4:5), we can see the period here is

2520 years.

Judah and Jerusalem were made captive to Babylon in 608BC.

-608 + 2520 = 1913
(no 0 AD)

Now you have to understand Daniel really well, because there is an additional 120 years to add on.

So it actually ends 2033.

Which is fun, because Jesus was crucified and resurrected in AD 33, and had two more days and nights in the earth (sign of Jonah) of his 3 days and nights, which meant 2000 years. 2000 + 33 = 2033



there is one good thing about numbers.....One can pull them out of thin air and make them tell us any story we want. Your calculations above provide that insight to us. Thanks
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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#29
The tribulation was set for the second half of the 70th week, meaning 3.5 years. But Jesus said; "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened" (Matthew 24:22). So the 3.5 years of tribulation will be shortened. Shortened to what? "And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months" (Revelation 9:10). The tribulation will last about 5.5 months.. jmo

does not Daniel tell us it will be 7 years?
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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#30
The term generation here does not mean a single reproductive lifespan, the meaning you get in a biology class. The term generation is referring 'this evil generation' or 'this wicked generation' that are religious but reject Christ.
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The term generation is usually around a twenty year period. (i.e. x generation, Baby Boomers, Millennials, etc). Let's say for an example; a person is born in 2000. It will usually (stats will show) take an AVERAGE of twenty years before that person finds the love of his/her life, gets married (this is an old idea that for the most part is not used anymore, unfortunately) and has a baby in or around 2020. I, myself was married for 5 years before we had children by design. While this made me and my wife older than twenty years old when we had our first child, there are those during that time period that had a child and their ages were less than twenty years old.

Having said that,, When Jesus spoke about a generation in Matthew 24:34 (see below), I believe, He was speaking of the Lifespan of the people that were born (start of a generation) in that year (time period) of the event.

Today, when you are born (what year) determines what generation you are in. Me, I am part of the Baby Boomers generation.
My children although born 5 years apart are separated by an arbitrary date considered 'the next generation'. Does this apply to 2000 year old prophecy....I doubt it.

I read it as simply as "....This generation shall not pass...",A generation of people (20 years), whose lifespans will prevent all of them from dying away. " till all these things be fulfilled." The prophecies Jesus Himself is speaking of in Matthew 24 are fulfilled.

I leave it to you to do the math.
I have no doubt you will apply you magic numbers generously to this topic. I will say this; Matthew 24:34 if nothing else tells us we are in the "END DAYS". That is as far as I can go.

Matthew 24:34 (KJV)...." Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
 
Dec 2, 2016
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#31
A generation according to God in the OT is around a hundred years. The generation born in 1900 did not pass until the last person born in 1900 had died. Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are mysterious places in the bible because Jesus described the coming destruction of Israel and also, the coming return of Christ and the end of the age, and He mixed them all together. When Jesus said that this generation shall not pass until all be fulfilled He had to be describing the coming destruction of Israel...because that is what happened before that generation had passed away. He could not have meant the end of the age because that has yet to happen.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
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#32
The mesuring rod was Christ and he wasn't measuring physical things.... why would he? What spiritual significance would there be in measuring a physical temple? Seriously, why God have someone measure a physical temple already built?

Revelation 11:1 KJV
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.


Here is the reed that was like a measuring rod:

Isaiah 42:3 KJV
A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
You can read all about the end times temple in the pages of Ezekiel chapters 40-48.

Isaiah 42:1-4 says nothing about Christ being a measuring rod, nor a bruised reed. It says He (Jesus) will not break a bruised reed.


“Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold;
My chosen one in whom My soul delights.
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the nations.
2 “He will not cry out or raise His voice,
Nor make His voice heard in the street.
3 “A bruised reed He will not break
And a dimly burning wick He will not extinguish;
He will faithfully bring forth justice.
4 “He will not be disheartened or crushed
Until He has established justice in the earth;
And the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law.”

 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
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#33
The end times temple, what it will look like.

[video=youtube;YNmERZkT6JM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNmERZkT6JM[/video]
 
Last edited:
Dec 12, 2013
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#34
Where did you get that from. I don't think God would allow a tabernacle on any other place than the Temple Mount.

Notice I said concept.......and I got it from a few different sources......

a) A Jewish neighbor
b) The view that the first temple was sitting next to a spring that was slightly lower than the temple mount to deal with all the blood and ceremonial cleaning....the current site was built by Herod and embellished...My Jewish friends believe it was lower than the temple mount (next to it by a spring that is there)

again I said INTERESTING concept....not that I necessarily believe or buy it.......
 
Dec 13, 2016
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#36
there is one good thing about numbers.....One can pull them out of thin air and make them tell us any story we want. Your calculations above provide that insight to us. Thanks
Proverbs 26 4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#37
Thanks for asking KJV1611. This is not likely a literal forty-two months. I can not tell you the exact time in terms of hours or years or seconds and the like, but I can help you understand what is going on here. The term Gentiles in this case means the heathen or unsaved persons, while the term holy city means the true believers, not Jerusalem on a map.

"And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein."

When this verse talks about the temple of God it means the true believers in Christ. True believers are said to be measured, which is a way of saying they are numbered and saved. A measure of faith is given to each.

"But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."

The court that is without the temple means those who are unsaved. They are not part of the body of Christ (his temple). They are not numbered among the saved and do not have a measure of faith. The term Gentiles here means something akin to heathen, in other words unbelievers. The term holy city means the true believers.

The entire tribulation period is often called an hour. It is not a literal hour but is a way of designating the time period in its entirety. The time period often seems to be divided in half by the Bible. We learn about this in Rev 8:1 for instance: "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour." The term silence is used to indicate that it is a time when people are not being converted to Christ. If they were, there would be rejoicing, rather than silence, in heaven. No new souls are being converted to Christ because the Holy Spirit is withdrawn from the congregations coming from the church age at this time. The one who restrains sin of unbelief (the Holy Spirit) is taken out of the way (2 Thes 2:7). That is why there is no conversion at the time. This time of no new conversion, of silence, is the time when the true believers' true gospel is not heard in the congregations in a saving way. The Bible uses the parable terminology of the two witnesses (the true believers) lying in the streets of Jerusalem. They are effectively dead to the congregations, because their gospel is not heard there.
I agree that forty and two months is not literally 42 months and I also can't put an exact duration either but I think it's the times of the Gentiles.

I'm not saying you're wrong but I don't see that the gentiles means heathen or unsaved people for a couple of reasons. 1 - I haven't seen Gentiles represented that way anywhere else in the bible and 2 - read verse 1.

Revelation 11:1 KJV
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

3 things are measured:

  1. The temple of God.
  2. The altar.
  3. Them that worship inside the temple.
The "people" are measured in number 3. That means 1 and 2 are the literal temple. The outer court and Holy city are also literal. Does that make sense?
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
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#38
A generation according to God in the OT is around a hundred years. The generation born in 1900 did not pass until the last person born in 1900 had died. Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are mysterious places in the bible because Jesus described the coming destruction of Israel and also, the coming return of Christ and the end of the age, and He mixed them all together. When Jesus said that this generation shall not pass until all be fulfilled He had to be describing the coming destruction of Israel...because that is what happened before that generation had passed away. He could not have meant the end of the age because that has yet to happen.



?????????????
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#39
Notice I said concept.......and I got it from a few different sources......

a) A Jewish neighbor
b) The view that the first temple was sitting next to a spring that was slightly lower than the temple mount to deal with all the blood and ceremonial cleaning....the current site was built by Herod and embellished...My Jewish friends believe it was lower than the temple mount (next to it by a spring that is there)

again I said INTERESTING concept....not that I necessarily believe or buy it.......


Ah a concept,,,,,I missed that. sorry. There is room for the temple to be built on the northern end of the TM.

Again,, I did not see or read that.

There is room for the temple to be rebuilt on the old temple. The Rock and the Mosque are on the
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#40
Good question.

What is "42 months"

42 months = 1260 days.

Now, because we are talking about the Temple, with morning and evening sacrifices, (Daniel 8:14), the multiply/divide by 2 principle comes into play.

John 11 9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day?

So, 12 = 24 hours.


Therefore, 1260 days = 2520 days.

Now, applying Ezekiel's day to a year principle. (Ezekiel 4:5), we can see the period here is

2520 years.

Judah and Jerusalem were made captive to Babylon in 608BC.

-608 + 2520 = 1913
(no 0 AD)

Now you have to understand Daniel really well, because there is an additional 120 years to add on.

So it actually ends 2033.

Which is fun, because Jesus was crucified and resurrected in AD 33, and had two more days and nights in the earth (sign of Jonah) of his 3 days and nights, which meant 2000 years. 2000 + 33 = 2033



I don't see how you can double the days just because there were morning and evening sacrifices... why would the number of sacrifices double the number of days? The verse doesn't say the holy city will be tread under foot forty and two sacrifices. Maybe I didn't understand what you were trying to say.

I didn't understand this part:

John 11 9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day?
So, 12 = 24 hours.

At the equinoxes there are 12 hours of day (sun) and 12 hours of night (darkness), so I'm not understanding why 12 = 24 hours. Maybe you could clarify more.