Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?
- Thread starter Awakened
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
K
Quote " God can .. but there remains none today doing what the apostles of old did with Christ's given authority"
Perhaps then that is the answer to the OPs question. Just because people aren't doing it doesn't mean God wouldn't honor people who would. I have known people,in my own family and friends,that have received miracles. Now Im so not along the line of Benny Hinn,I believe him to be a fraud,I have friends that know him personally. But that being said the miracles in the Bible were documented for us to believe in Gods power. The Bible says that it cannot contain all the things that Jesus did. So not every miracle may have been written down nor every healing that the disciples preformed though Gods power.
God is not impressed with rich people or rulers. Their 'person' does not impress Him. He doesn't give the king a pass, or the president. But He does not give everyone the same thing. In I Corinthians 12, to one is given faith by the same Spirit, and to another something else. If we all had the same amount of faith, how could that verse be there in I Corinthians 12?We have 'gifts different according to the grace that is given to us.' God does not give us all the same thing. In the parable of the talents, one is given five talents, another two, and another one. They aren't all given five.
He gifts all with faith for our saving. But I agree that there is a gift of faith listed that not everyone receives, that could be termed "great faith." But that gift is used to bring Him increase by the sharing of it to build up the body TO that greater faith. You use it wisely to bring Him greater gain until more attain to that measure of faith, some fifty-fold, some sixty-fold what they've been given.
plainguy wrotes
The miracles of Christ happened far away in Jerusalem, not somewhere for all of us to see. They happened long ago. You can go to Africa on an airplane in less than 40 hours from just about any populated place on earth and try to research a claim of a miracle. You can't fly to first century Jerusalem to research the miracles in the Bible. But that is not evidence that they do not happen.
You sound like an atheist. Atheists feign partial omniscience. They act like they can know that God does not exist, as if they are everywhere and know all the evidence. And then you move the goalpost. Have you considered that this is the Internet and some people live in Africa? Why would miracles have to occur way off far away in Canada or the US for you to consider them to be valid?
You claim there is no evidence, and then you go right into how you won't accept evidence that may be perfectly valid based on your own arbitrary criteria. No one is claiming you have seen all these things. But if you haven't heard testimonies of people being miraculously healed of life-long illnesses, don't pretend like the rest of us haven't. You probably don't go to a church that would allow such testimonies. Those of us who go to churches who believe God operates like the Bible teaches when it come to miracles have heard testimonies. Some of us have witnessed healings.
It's really simple. The Bible teaches that the Spirit gives these gifts as the Spirit wills. If you believe that, you can't claim such things are not happening in the world. It's up to the Spirit to decide. You have no authority to issue a decree to limit what the Spirit wills. If you believe the scriptures, then you should be open to the idea that some claims are legitimate.
You sound like an atheist. Atheists feign partial omniscience. They act like they can know that God does not exist, as if they are everywhere and know all the evidence. And then you move the goalpost. Have you considered that this is the Internet and some people live in Africa? Why would miracles have to occur way off far away in Canada or the US for you to consider them to be valid?
You claim there is no evidence, and then you go right into how you won't accept evidence that may be perfectly valid based on your own arbitrary criteria. No one is claiming you have seen all these things. But if you haven't heard testimonies of people being miraculously healed of life-long illnesses, don't pretend like the rest of us haven't. You probably don't go to a church that would allow such testimonies. Those of us who go to churches who believe God operates like the Bible teaches when it come to miracles have heard testimonies. Some of us have witnessed healings.
It's really simple. The Bible teaches that the Spirit gives these gifts as the Spirit wills. If you believe that, you can't claim such things are not happening in the world. It's up to the Spirit to decide. You have no authority to issue a decree to limit what the Spirit wills. If you believe the scriptures, then you should be open to the idea that some claims are legitimate.
M
Just to continue with my thoughts on this: So...since the "gift of healing" no longer exists...since it seems quite obvious no one is running around with these superpowers, zapping people back to life or restoring sight to someone with lifelong blindness (etc.)...I have concluded with a reasonable degree of certainty the "gift of healing" no longer exists! Same for the "gift of tongues" such it is described on the Day of Pentecost:
People are no longer able to speak instantly in other earthly languages so as to evangelize. It is not happening. There are no Charismatic missionaries going to various countries and speaking instantly in the various languages.
People are no longer able to speak instantly in other earthly languages so as to evangelize. It is not happening. There are no Charismatic missionaries going to various countries and speaking instantly in the various languages.
L
Are we truly hid in Christ? Do we honestly seek to do the Father's will or must we admit that we have a selfish agenda requesting a sign from God He does miracles? Do you have breath in your lungs? There is a miracle. We look past the miracles because of our carnal expectations. The miracles if God are all around us. As Elisha prayed for His servant open his eyes that he may see. Satan wants to pervert the character of God thereby destroying our faith and asking for signs and wonders because we are blind by the things of this world. If we would have faith the size of a mustard seed we could see God move mountains. I see a lot if argument in here relating to man's reasoning. This Satan delights in because instead of drawing closer to Christ we are putting our own agendas to win a dispute. Put on the full armour of God and pray without ceasing. We fight not against flesh and blood but against dark powers we comprehend not. I suggest a visit to Psalm 133 unity in the spirit not a spirit of unity.
1Cor 12:4Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. 7But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
Now, here's the scripture. The reason christians cannot manifest the gift you dissenters are looking for is because the Spirit does it for the common good. While this thread is common, it's not good.
The scribes & pharisees wanted a sign from Jesus & didn't get it..... so what makes you think you will?
8For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
To those who say there are no gifts, you ought to read another book, perhaps a Bible for a change. Then you wouldn't look like fools with your unbelief.
But, if you still want to look like a fool, keep tossing out 1cor 13:8-13 & keep twisting it to mean the completion of the canon. That's all you can do now, isn't it?
Almost forgot..... It's not about great faith to do this, for the gift of faith is one of the gifts.
What it's really about is in the beginning of ch 13..... Love is the prerequisite, as well as a willingness to perform God's will..... and in that order..... that's why Paul says all these gifts are nothing without the love of God in you. It's my opinion that the dissenters have less love than their counterparts, that's the real reason they won't believe.
The scribes & pharisees are still looking for a sign. *sigh*
I want to try another approach..... Why don't you dissenters prove your point instead of running multiple pages of empty words & snarling accusations?
I'm listening.....
K
Quote "..I have concluded with a reasonable degree of certainty the "gift of healing" no longer exists!"
So anyone that has claimed a healing after the Bible age is a liar?! Thats quite a statement.
Quote "People are no longer able to speak instantly in other earthly languages so as to evangelize. It is not happening."
But it is. I have told the story here several times of a friend of the family that pastors a large church in Canada. He got saved because of tongues heard in his own language. It is,in fact,still happening. Americans are so blind in our little material world. Talk to any missionary. We have no idea of miracles nor on the opposite end,demon possession in some of these countries overseas. I knew a missionary from Africa and the stories he told were,to me,unbelievable.But they were true.We dont see these things in here but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Aaaamen!
35Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.39And Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind.” 40Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” 41Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.
Prophecy being fulfilled before our eyes.
35Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.39And Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind.” 40Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” 41Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.
Prophecy being fulfilled before our eyes.
F
Hey, So i figure i'd chime in a bit.
So far the topic I've seen is the details of distribution of gifts. Some comments suggest we all receive the same faith. I want to be a bit clearer on this. The faith that we are saved (faith of salvation) is available to anyone that repents (turns from sin) and asks for forgiveness. There is however a greater faith available - they are the spiritual gifts. If you don't believe (faith) that God wants to use you as a tool of healing - you won't enter a hospital. Healing is DEFINITELY not a match for me - I'd clear out hospitals just for the fun of it...
Healing (and other gifts) are given to those who will use them to Glorify the Spirit. That is an important rule and it can be deductively found by looking at different things. Gifts are manifested after receiving the Holy Spirit - the Apostles used that to deduce that God wanted to give salvation to the Gentiles as well. A person that is filled with the Spirit will seek after things of the Spirit (Galatians 5). Thus a manifestation of a spiritual gift is only manifested by someone who seeks the things of God.
Which begs the question, what is God seeking for? 1Tim 2.4 - "who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." To that end the [FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]apostles[/FONT][FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] used the gifts to validate the authority God placed in them. Also healing a sickness is a kind thing to do. The gifts are to be used to build the Church, that could be open healing-to demonstrate God's authority-to quiet teaching and mentoring a brother/sister. Look at own body right now (we live in cold Canada), All I can see of mine is my hands and head. The rest is covered. As the body of Christ all that should be seen is Christ (the head) and those reaching out (His hands). Paul, Peter, Barnabas, Titus, Timothy, etc - those were the hands. The majority of the Church is not seen in Scripture (by name). Even if we don't know about them, God doesn't over look it.
Every act that you do in love is a miracle. Your reward is sure in heaven. That is the truth i found behind spiritual gifts. To simplify it a bit. Your actions preach Christ - that is the Spiritual gift of preaching without words. I have seen those that yield great spiritual power. I've met people that have the gift of healing. One thing i can tell you about them. They are humble and god honoring about it. There is a way in their words, they never claim to do it. They always let God work thru them.
I want to share something about myself now. I was a man wrapped in hatred. I hated everyone and forgiveness was not something i would do. I look back and can't even understand why i would do that. That's when Christ came after me, and everything changed. I found myself letting go of who i was into his loving hands. I've held onto a pain that nearly ruined me, now i could see it and let it go. My nature changed from a son of wrath to a son of love. Since then people have hurt me but the response is love - it just became natural. One in particular: This person ripped out my heart and tore it to shreds. I have in my arsenal secrets that could ruin her. A retaliation of pain would be easy. Instead i decided to show kindness and give her something that would help her. It did cost me a LOT but in the end i received something invaluable from my Savior. It never was the Goal, but i received the assurance that who i am has changed. This change was not natural or explainable, so my conclusion is that it was the Spirit's power cleansing "the old man" and giving me this "new creation".
I know i went on a mayor tangent, but i hope it helped you understand a bit more the mission God has for us. From that I draw my conclusions as to why so few spiritual gifts are manifested. The gifts need to be for God's glory and few people are yielded to that. God has given you gifts to use off-stage to train for those big moments.
-Ron[/FONT]
So far the topic I've seen is the details of distribution of gifts. Some comments suggest we all receive the same faith. I want to be a bit clearer on this. The faith that we are saved (faith of salvation) is available to anyone that repents (turns from sin) and asks for forgiveness. There is however a greater faith available - they are the spiritual gifts. If you don't believe (faith) that God wants to use you as a tool of healing - you won't enter a hospital. Healing is DEFINITELY not a match for me - I'd clear out hospitals just for the fun of it...
Healing (and other gifts) are given to those who will use them to Glorify the Spirit. That is an important rule and it can be deductively found by looking at different things. Gifts are manifested after receiving the Holy Spirit - the Apostles used that to deduce that God wanted to give salvation to the Gentiles as well. A person that is filled with the Spirit will seek after things of the Spirit (Galatians 5). Thus a manifestation of a spiritual gift is only manifested by someone who seeks the things of God.
Which begs the question, what is God seeking for? 1Tim 2.4 - "who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." To that end the [FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]apostles[/FONT][FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] used the gifts to validate the authority God placed in them. Also healing a sickness is a kind thing to do. The gifts are to be used to build the Church, that could be open healing-to demonstrate God's authority-to quiet teaching and mentoring a brother/sister. Look at own body right now (we live in cold Canada), All I can see of mine is my hands and head. The rest is covered. As the body of Christ all that should be seen is Christ (the head) and those reaching out (His hands). Paul, Peter, Barnabas, Titus, Timothy, etc - those were the hands. The majority of the Church is not seen in Scripture (by name). Even if we don't know about them, God doesn't over look it.
Every act that you do in love is a miracle. Your reward is sure in heaven. That is the truth i found behind spiritual gifts. To simplify it a bit. Your actions preach Christ - that is the Spiritual gift of preaching without words. I have seen those that yield great spiritual power. I've met people that have the gift of healing. One thing i can tell you about them. They are humble and god honoring about it. There is a way in their words, they never claim to do it. They always let God work thru them.
I want to share something about myself now. I was a man wrapped in hatred. I hated everyone and forgiveness was not something i would do. I look back and can't even understand why i would do that. That's when Christ came after me, and everything changed. I found myself letting go of who i was into his loving hands. I've held onto a pain that nearly ruined me, now i could see it and let it go. My nature changed from a son of wrath to a son of love. Since then people have hurt me but the response is love - it just became natural. One in particular: This person ripped out my heart and tore it to shreds. I have in my arsenal secrets that could ruin her. A retaliation of pain would be easy. Instead i decided to show kindness and give her something that would help her. It did cost me a LOT but in the end i received something invaluable from my Savior. It never was the Goal, but i received the assurance that who i am has changed. This change was not natural or explainable, so my conclusion is that it was the Spirit's power cleansing "the old man" and giving me this "new creation".
I know i went on a mayor tangent, but i hope it helped you understand a bit more the mission God has for us. From that I draw my conclusions as to why so few spiritual gifts are manifested. The gifts need to be for God's glory and few people are yielded to that. God has given you gifts to use off-stage to train for those big moments.
-Ron[/FONT]
If you choose to compare the authentic miracles documented in God-breathed scripture to those claimed elsewhere today, have at it. I don't have to see happen what God has said happened. But I would have to see happen what you have said happens. Have you ever raised a dead person ? .. or healed a blind person .. or made a lame from birth person walk ? Has anybody in Africa that you know of done so ? Or anywhere in the world today, including Canada and the U.S. ? Like you said ... it's easy to research a claim of a miracle. And it's even easier to talk about it.
M
My goodness - what are you trying to say? That the miracle of speaking instantly in other languages doesn't work? It DID work in Acts 2. They spoke in various languages and thereby preached the Gospel...then Peter got up and spoke in the common language (probably Aramaic) which all the merchants and travelers almost certainly had a working knowledge of...and 3000 people were converted. Obviously. the miraculous tongues-speaking contributed hugely to the evangelization effort. What are you struggling with?
You make the arbitrary argument that people didn't have the ability to go around speaking in languages. But the whole thrust of 1 Cor. 14 was that people were getting a bit 'willy nilly' with their tongues-speaking. In other words, they had the ability to speak in these foreign languages. Paul was saying to make sure they were using it properly for its primary designated purpose, as a "sign" to the unbelieving (1Cor.14:22). Again, as an evangelistic tool. And yes, if interpreted, it also edified the believers.
And 3000 didn't mock them. Some did and some didn't. Those 3000 accepted the Gospel message which the tongues-speakers and Peter were declaring unto them.
No, unbelievers were responding by believing the Gospel...as 3000 of them did that day.
1Cor.14:22 says "tongues are a sign...for unbelievers" obviously as a tool to bring them to salvation.
What in the world? There are dozens of languages all over the mediterranean world...even to this day. Don't know what else to tell you. He was reaching out to common working people who didn't have sophisticated linguistic skills. He says he spoke in foreign languages ("tongues") more than anyone. Why else was he having the necessity to speak in foreign languages...other than because he was in foreign lands?
Again, it's ironic that folks who otherwise want to play up miracles, signs and wonders...now want to downplay it...since there is obviously no "tongues-speaking" going on. Other than claims that "a little girl in Africa spoke German in tongues, 12 years ago, [etc.]. Good grief, is this a major point you're making?
That's right. The entire thrust of 1Cor. 14, contrary to popular Charismatic doctrines, is that we are NOT to engage in the mindlessness of uninterpreted tongues-speaking. And actually, he is indicating he specifically does NOT "pray in a tongue" precisely because it is mindless.
No, he wasn't talking "about" speaking in tongues...he was talking AGAINST speaking in tongues other people are not understanding. He advocates translation.
In a plain reading of Acts 2, "tongues" was killing two birds with one stone - for the purpose of evangelization and to provide a crediting and confirming miracle.
That IS the definition of "tongues" in the Bible. It is a definition provided to us in Acts 2. Quite obviously, Acts 2 is the "Rosetta Stone" of the doctrine of tongues.
The people there spoke in foreign languages and evangelized in the process...no matter how you try to deny tongues were used for evangelization. Peter then stepped in at that point and expanded on their evangelistic comments. What's to not understand?
You make the arbitrary argument that people didn't have the ability to go around speaking in languages. But the whole thrust of 1 Cor. 14 was that people were getting a bit 'willy nilly' with their tongues-speaking. In other words, they had the ability to speak in these foreign languages. Paul was saying to make sure they were using it properly for its primary designated purpose, as a "sign" to the unbelieving (1Cor.14:22). Again, as an evangelistic tool. And yes, if interpreted, it also edified the believers.
And 3000 didn't mock them. Some did and some didn't. Those 3000 accepted the Gospel message which the tongues-speakers and Peter were declaring unto them.
No, unbelievers were responding by believing the Gospel...as 3000 of them did that day.
1Cor.14:22 says "tongues are a sign...for unbelievers" obviously as a tool to bring them to salvation.
What in the world? There are dozens of languages all over the mediterranean world...even to this day. Don't know what else to tell you. He was reaching out to common working people who didn't have sophisticated linguistic skills. He says he spoke in foreign languages ("tongues") more than anyone. Why else was he having the necessity to speak in foreign languages...other than because he was in foreign lands?
Again, it's ironic that folks who otherwise want to play up miracles, signs and wonders...now want to downplay it...since there is obviously no "tongues-speaking" going on. Other than claims that "a little girl in Africa spoke German in tongues, 12 years ago, [etc.]. Good grief, is this a major point you're making?
That's right. The entire thrust of 1Cor. 14, contrary to popular Charismatic doctrines, is that we are NOT to engage in the mindlessness of uninterpreted tongues-speaking. And actually, he is indicating he specifically does NOT "pray in a tongue" precisely because it is mindless.
No, he wasn't talking "about" speaking in tongues...he was talking AGAINST speaking in tongues other people are not understanding. He advocates translation.
In a plain reading of Acts 2, "tongues" was killing two birds with one stone - for the purpose of evangelization and to provide a crediting and confirming miracle.
That IS the definition of "tongues" in the Bible. It is a definition provided to us in Acts 2. Quite obviously, Acts 2 is the "Rosetta Stone" of the doctrine of tongues.
The people there spoke in foreign languages and evangelized in the process...no matter how you try to deny tongues were used for evangelization. Peter then stepped in at that point and expanded on their evangelistic comments. What's to not understand?
K
I use to travel in ministry in the US and Canada.I have met people healed of diseases.I sang at a camp one time that had crutches up on the tabernacle wall. A person that could not walk had been healed.I know of a man that was in a terrible motorcycle accident and the doctors said he would never walk again and today he is not only walking but is in ministry.In fact he is a well known writer of several songs that we sing in our churches today. If you haven't seen miracles perhaps you need to ask the Lord to show you His power.
This is what the OP of this thread asked :
"Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?"
Do any here know of even one person that's doing today what the apostles of old did ? ... operating under the same power and authority that Christ gave His apostles in the apostolic era ? Anybody have a name ?
"Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?"
Do any here know of even one person that's doing today what the apostles of old did ? ... operating under the same power and authority that Christ gave His apostles in the apostolic era ? Anybody have a name ?
I do believe it, I just don't see it happening,
You were in a coma and APPEARED dead,
A coma, not death
God doesn't accept commands.
I'm sorry but you are speaking rubbish. I have prayed fervently ,and in faith but God has not healed my wife, nor me. Now I have to ask why? And it isn't easy.
Ah the healing that was NOT healing. You've destroyed your case. HEALING is restoration in this life.
My friend. You MIGHT have been healed, but your conclusions are all wrong.
You were in a coma and APPEARED dead,
A coma, not death
God doesn't accept commands.
I'm sorry but you are speaking rubbish. I have prayed fervently ,and in faith but God has not healed my wife, nor me. Now I have to ask why? And it isn't easy.
Ah the healing that was NOT healing. You've destroyed your case. HEALING is restoration in this life.
My friend. You MIGHT have been healed, but your conclusions are all wrong.
Last edited:
Here's the thing Kayla. I don't have to see miracles to believe (and know) that God sometimes intervenes in our lives supernaturally, even if rarely. Doesn't matter to me. I know that God can do anything He wills. What I contend is what many today call the "gift of healing" .. or the power and authority to heal as the apostles of old were granted by Christ. We either have apostles today like the twelve (and the handful that accompanied them) ... or we don't. You can't begin to imagine what God has wrought to me and my loved ones in this life thru His grace and mercy. I have never doubted God's ability. But I do doubt the claims of many today that say we can do what the apostles did. Talk is cheap. And I believe that it serves to weaken our witness when it isn't backed up with proof. Given today's technology, this should be rather easy to do. Yet, we never seem to see it.