Again, Prez - If I pre-deposited a very large swath of my personal life info with a third party...and there actually were someone with a "gift of prophecy"...that third party would have complete control. Not me. Your excuse is absolutely and utterly phony.
What makes you think you have right to make up your own rules and expect God to follow them?
You must realize that these past few posts is a big straw . I'm not claiming to prophesy or to do miracles. You are also making up your own rules for how prophesying operates. The one who prophesies is dependant on the Lord to share his revelation (I Cor. 14:30). If the one who prophesies just makes something up, that is not the real thing.
Your behavior is irresponsible. Your "bus accident resurrection" story is irresponsible.
No it isn't. Eisegesis is irresponsible. I wonder at some of your responses. Do you believe those promises of Jesus about answering prayer? If someone prays for something specific, and it happens, do you doubt that, too? If the statements of Jesus about prayer are true, wouldn't you at least have to concede that God might instantly heal someone or raise the dead in response to prayer? Your theological limitations could keep you from believing basic teachings of scripture.
Let me ask you, do you have any testimonies about very, very specific answers to prayer that you have experienced? I have? I've experienced some really detailed, off-the-wall sounding things I've prayed that have come to pass at times. Does that sort of thing not fit into your worldview?
Nathan Morris? It's a disgrace. You are wasting my time.
Slander is irresponsible. If you never responded and told me what your objection to him was beyond
someone shrieking, as if other people shrieking makes a man false, somehow. That makes no sense, especially since Jesus had people around him manifesting demons on various occasions when He showed up. If your objection to the fact that he ministers to the sick (is a 'faith healer'), then you are moving the goal post.
Also, one of your objections to the woman in the wheelchair being healed was that her legs were
not atrophied, that's definitely moving the goal post in the opposite direction.
Bro, the very first Nathan Morris video I looked up...an older woman with jerking, spasming motions.
I didn't see it. There were people who convulsed when they got around Jesus.
But besides that, this Morris guy is ABSOLUTELY the classic healing phony. A fraud. It's one invisible "miracle" after the other. He slaps people on their forehead. They then either collapse under demonic energizing OR they simply fake falling down, willfully participating in the fakery because they feel the pressure to do so when they're standing up at the front.
There were people who fell down around Jesus, some from demonic activity and some when He said, "I am." Priests in the temple were not able to stand to minister when the cloud entered because of the kavod. Do you have a
Biblical objection?
In the Bible we read 'they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.' Jesus laid hands on people. Do you have an objection to laying hands on the forehead? Do you have any scripture that shows the proper directions for where to lay hands?
Well, now you've become flat-out dishonest. You are lying. I stipulated in NO uncertain terms...an instantaneous healing.
I never agreed to any of your terms. And you are accusing
me of dishonesty? Pretending as if I agreed to provide you with something. I told you I don't claim to prophesy or do miracles. (Actually, come to think of it, I remember a few people I prayed for said they were healed.) I never offered to meet your demands. How is pretending that I did being honest? I find your comment very ironic, and not very polite, either.
The more important thing is, youdon't get to make rules for God, either. God doesn't have to jump through any hoops for you for the Bible to be true. You are objecting to the teaching of the Bible (I Corinthians 12 in particular), and then demanding me to do miracles or prophesy over you before you will believe what the scriptures teach.
Jesus did a lot of miracles that helped people believe in Him. But how did He respond when someone came to Him demanding a sign? What about when Herod wanted Him to do a miracle? Do you think you have the right attitude on this issue before God?
You said you were sincere in wanting to hear a prophecy about yourself. If you really are sincere, you want a genuine prophecy from God, right? And if you are sincere about it, you should be expecting that if it comes, it comes from a gift from God, and it is a message from God. How is this demanding....and I might add rather rude... attitude appropriate. If you really are sincerely wanting God to give you a prophecy, you should consider rather you are being demanding and rude toward God. If your answer is no, you should ask yourself whether your request is sincere. If it is not, are you being honest?
Notice that complaining that someone who was healed after decades of being in a wheelchair did
not have atrophied legs is moving the goal post in the opposite direction. On the one hand, she isn't healed quick enough, and on the other, she is too healed? If she was healed, why would you complain that her legs were not atrophied?
Jesus also healed one blind man in stages. If Jesus spit on the man's eyes, he saw some, and Jesus laid hands on Him, and His vision cleared up, I'm okay with someone being miraculously healed from a brain injury that left her in a wheelchair and being a bit uncoordinated for a couple of months after.
When God heals someone, we should be thankful. If someone has the flu and we pray for them, and they get healed a week later instead of getting pneumonia and dying, we should be thankful for that. If he wakes up the next day, we should be thankful for that. And we should be thankful if the snot dries up on the spot and the healing is instantaneous.
Just like Jesus and the disciples. Very, very simple guidelines. You couldn't hold up your end of the bargain...and now blame me. That's dishonesty.
Maybe you don't mean it this way, but this quote totally seems dishonest from my perspective. Why? Because you act like we made a bargain. I never agreed to jump through your hoops. I told you to ask God if you wanted someone to give you a prophecy. I told you I don't claim to prophesy. So now, you are pretending like I did in an Internet room full of people. And you claim that I'm being dishonest? It seems dishonest to me, not to mention slanderous.
I don't see how you have presented any real Biblical reason to badmouth the guy who laid hands on Delia Knox. But I notice when you encounter what looks to be some pretty good evidence for a supernatural healing (not totally instaneous, but still medically rather amazing) that you start accusing rather quickly, and you even started accusing me. I wonder what's going on inside of you that leads to all that.
Even if people at some of these meetings are acting unnecessarily emotional, emotionalism of people at the meetings doesn't make the ministers false. That doesn't make any sense. There were rather emotional reactions to both the first and second great awakenings. Some of it may have been the reaction of people under conviction of sin, and some of it was likely unjustifiable emotionalism. But that doesn't make all the preachers false.
What makes you think that you have authority to declare what the Spirit will and will not do?
That's a dishonest mis-direction. I don't claim such authority.
No, it is a very honest and to-the-point question. I Corinthians 12 says that the Spirit gives gifts like the working of miracles and gifts of healing to the church. You say that He doesn't. What makes you think you have the authority to limit what the Spirit wills to do? You haven't shown any scripture that God has stated a limitation on what He will do in giving these gifts to the saints. Why don't you accept these teachings of scripture as still true?
I've asked you that repeatedly. That is the real issue, your rejection of Biblical teaching. You dodged the question by accusing me. Why don't you deal with the actual question, and explain your rational for rejecting the teaching of scripture in I Corinthians 12. As Roger, notuptome, who is more on the cessationist side of the spectrum, has pointed out in the past, I Corinthians 13 says nothing about the cessation of miracles.
Wouldn't 'discernment of spirits' be one of those spiritual gifts you would think had ceased anyway?
Well again, that's deliberately obnoxious...and shows therefore a lack of integrity and honesty on your part, sorry to say. It is plainly obvious I was referring merely to generic "discernment". Again, you're wasting my time.
That question is not meant to be obnoxious at all. It is a very legitimate question. The actual gift of discernment of spirits is in a list that you seem to reject.. since you reject other gifts. You didn't post any Biblical reasons to reject the guy doing the ministering in that video (which wouldnt' prove the healing in question is false anyway), so my question was a reasonable one. Besides, you didn't say what kind of discernment you meant, and I hear the gift referred to quite often when I hear the word. We move in difference circles, I realize.
And look back at the post I am responding to, and ask yourself if it were directed at you, would you consider it to be obnoxious?
Is this a waste of time? From my perspective, it seems what makes this a waste of time is your not yielding to the authority of what is revealed in scripture, and coming up with interpretations that don't fit the passages to keep your preconceived conclusions.
And again, we have not made a bargain. I have encouraged you to seek God. I don't claim to have the gift of prophecy or to operate in the gift of the working of miracles. I'd like both. I'll pray for both. But if you want to see and experience these things, I suppose it is okay to pray that. It would seem more Biblical to pray to do these things. But when you pray, pray with respect, not some demanding attitude. And pray in faith. You can base your faith on the word of God, instead of coming up with reasons and arguments not to believe what the Bible says on the matter. The Bible actually has something to say about these things in I Corinthians 12.
