Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

presidente · Jan 22, 2017

Signs are also for them that believe. The disciples asked Jesus for the sign of His coming and He gave them lots of them.

You may be able to find some allegories in Jesus' miracles. When someone is healed of deafness in modern times, maybe you could read an allegory into that. But when Jesus healed deaf people, their ears were healed, allegory or not. God teaches us through a variety of means, including His work in our lives to this day.

[quote[
We walk by faith, the unseen eternal, and not after some work we could perform outwardly temporal as that seen.. [/quote]

We walk by faith, and then the stuff we believe for happens. Abraham believed God. He waited for a city whose builder and maker is God. Does that mean he would never experience the city? No.

This is an example from Hebrews 11,
29 [FONT=&quot]By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.[/FONT]

Moses had faith. He believed God, stretched out the rod, and walked through on dry ground. The fact that Moses could see, feel, and smell, and experience with all his senses walking through the Red Sea does not negate the fact that he could do this. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. First Moses had faith. Then he saw what he believed God for. He experienced what He was believing God for while He was believing God.

Experiencing the supernatural is not the enemy of faith. Experiencing what we believe God for is not the enemy of faith.

[quote[
Thats why the unbelieving Jew (no faith) required a sign in respect to some religious work they performed. Making the gospel to no effect.[/QUOTE]

You keep saying stuff like this. I don't know what you mean. I doubt anyone else does. What is does 'a sign in respect to some religious work they performed.' What did work do you the Jews who demanded a sign from Jesus wanted to perform that was related to the sign?

MattTooFor · Jan 22, 2017

presidente said:

Wow -- you are one cold fish. I was having a warm exchange with this lovely young lady who has gone to the seventh circle of Hell and back, telling her how moving her testimony was for me...and you step in with this sneering remark about "Sadducees"? And as usual, you're confused: The Sadducees did not believe in life after death. I have Christian beliefs.

You're alternately in denial over the inadvertent conclusions of Pentecostal doctrines which consign non-believers of pseudo-tongues to 'unsaved' status...and then here you flip-flop back, acknowledging you had indeed viewed me as an apostate "Sadducee". But now you have granted me a reprieve ? What a relief.

But that's an obstacle you just made up. The "gift of tongues", for example, involved God "giving utterance"...and yet the indication from 1Cor.14 is that people used the gift at will. In fact, they were apparently using it too much.

So again, the indication is that the "gift of prophecy" which also involved God "giving utterance", was being used with great frequency and virtually at will. And it also required God "giving utterance".

I have presented myself to the Charismatic/Pentecostal congregation here at Christian Chat. There should be a relatively sizable percentage of you folks who have a "gift of prophecy". Instead of lecturing, rebuking, admonishing and interminable chit-chat...simply produce the miracle...in the same way an unbeliever in the olden days could step into a fellowship and become astonished and amazed at the miracle of prophetic utterance.

I have offered to put myself into the hands of others here at Christian Chat in such a way that I have NO CONTROL and NO WAY to manipulate the outcome. Once I hand over my personal information (sans personal name or address, of course) to a secure third party at the ChristianChat 'congregation'...it would be COMPLETELY OUT OF MY HANDS.

If the "prophecies" matched my pre-deposited information, my unbelief would be obliterated for the glory of God. Prez, pick from one of the many friends you must have and let's do this.

presidente · Jan 22, 2017

MattTooFor said:

Maybe I should have use a smiley. I saw you believed in angels. The Saducees did not.

You didn't answer my question as far as I can see. You believe demons still operate today. Do you believe some Christians can still cast themout?

I never said I saw you as a Saducee (which is probably a Graecized version of Zadokite, if that sounds a little less harsh). I said it was good to see that you were not one.

And your conclusions about a Christian struggling with unbelief when it comes to speaking in tongues is not justified by I Corinthians 14. That passage deals with an unbeliever or an unlearned person who hears speaking in tongues. Do you fit into one of those categories?

That's one of those interesting questions about these gifts. The Spirit enable the individual to speak in tongues, but it is possible to use the gift in a disorderly manner.

Genuine prophesying does not occur totally at will, not totally at will of the human being doing it, because he is dependent on being moved by the Holy Ghost to do it. If a revelation comes to him (I Cor. 14:30) he can prophesy. If not, he can speak.

If God wants to give someone a prophecy for you, that's fine with me. I have no plans to talk with someone who has prophesied in the past, ask them to log in and get a password to jump through your hoops. If you really are sincere about this, you are sincere about getting a prophecy from God. And if it comes from God, you shouldn't have an attitude of testing the Lord.

WWJD comes to mind for me, and I remember that Jesus only gave the sign of His resurrection to those who demanded signs and did not answer Herod's request for a sign. Zecharias demanding a sign didn't go too well for him for nine months or more. Thomas, because of his unbelief, is remembered in the phrase 'doubting Thomas' to this day, and he has had his failure repeated over and over again when people read the Gospel of John.

I do not believe it is necessarily wrong to pray for someone to prophesy over you or even to pray just to see a miracle if you have the right heart attitude. And we are supposed to pray in faith.

MattTooFor · Jan 22, 2017

presidente said:

I love the way you're making this sound like I'm asking someone to run a marathon. Holy smokes - your friend is going to have to actually go to all the effort of "logging in and getting a password"? Maybe he can lay down for awhile, after that? I'll get him a glass of water.

No one is "jumping through hoops" - lol! I am the one jumping through hoops. I am putting myself on YOUR turf - the Pentecostal congregation of Christian Chat...in a 100% secure setting.

I'm not testing the Lord. I am testing what I believe are your false teachings.

Well, that's a lovely comparison. Me and Herod go way back. But actually, I would compare our scenario to Elijah and the prophets of Baal in 1Kings 18...in which Elijah tested the false teachings of the pagan priests.

You are hugely begging the question. As though questioning your doctrines is to question God. I'm being 100% more fair. I am saying, let's have an even playing field, the way Elijah offered the pagan priests. Let's put some skin in the game: I'll play the role of an 'unbeliever' in the community who, back in the olden days, would dare to walk into a fellowship where there were reports of miracles. And then I would be on YOUR turf, with you in complete control, and you could then perform a devastating confirming miracle that I could not deny.

presidente · Jan 22, 2017

MattTooFor said:

If you were being honest about being sincere about wanting a prophecy, then you are wanting God to meet your demands.

And you expect us to believe you were honest about being sincere about your request.

You are the one who does not believe the teaching of scripture on the matter. You have yet to answer my questions about why you do not believe I Corinthians 12 are valid teachings for the church.

Go back and read your own post about being sincere about wanting to receive a prophecy. These things come from God, even if they come through people.

I wouldn't want to invite someone to give you a prophecy that is not from God, anyway. If you want a fake prophecy, there are plenty of places you can find those. I'm not a prophecy or miracle broker. If you want to see one, believe the Bible and seek God on the matter.

str8up · Jan 22, 2017

What a great, simple yet profound explanation of our transformation in God's love by Grace.

MattTooFor · Jan 22, 2017

presidente said:

Just another of your phony obstacles. People can't walk and chew gum at the same time?

Two things can be true at the same time: I want to demonstrate the falseness of your doctrines...because I believe it places false burdens, false rebuke and self-loathing upon believers. But I would also LOVE to receive a personal prophecy from God. I would LOVE to be wrong. Just another of your false excuses...and the list is growing.

And in the way this would be set up...I would have no CHOICE but to acknowledge the validity.

Notice that neither Elijah nor even the pagan priests tried to pull your move: "Oh, you have to want to sincerely see the powers of Baal". I am proposing a perfectly legit scenario. It's right there in the Bible - 1Kings 18

You are wildly begging the question.

Uh...what? I would imagine you wouldn't want to. (??) I'm talking about you coughing up one of, what should be, innumerable associates of yours that you believe have a "gift of prophecy". Me and Elijah are standing by. 1 Kings 18 beckons!

You keep trying to pretend that I would somehow "welsh" on the situation. But by means of a very simple structure, all "welshing" would be impossible. And even if I were to run away from the scene (or something)...all the Charismatics and Pentecostals here at Christian Chat could rejoice and celebrate for days, weeks, months, even years to come.

IN FACT, think how the news would spread far and wide. Everything about this "prophesying" episode completely documented: My pre-deposited info would be time-stamped. Your prophecy time-stamped and presented in black and white for all to see. This is a HUGE opportunity to bring glory to Pentecostal doctrines.

Jeansunday · Jan 23, 2017

@ awakened How does a person know for sure they
have received the Holy Spirit?

Romans 8:14 (KJV) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:16 (KJV) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

For a sound teaching on this, get and read Tongues Beyond the Upper Room.

God bless you ma.

garee · Jan 23, 2017

Clearly in respect to the generation of natural, unconverted men, Christ did not say seek after a sign before you can believe.

The law not subject to change remains the same. I would think we would work from that premise rather than trying to make it without effect as did the Jews who did required a sign before they would believe.. .Why would you ignore the warning?

1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

There was no direct sign in Mathew 24.It was the beginning of Jacobs trouble, the last days. Christ said; All these are the beginning of sorrows. Sorrow things continue, just as in the time of Noah. Earthquakes and rumors of war have been here much longer than the New Testament. They were all leading to His final statement

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

In the end there will be sudden destruction. He will come in spirit like a thief in the night.

Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. (Not the end of sorrow )

Yes faith does not come by seeing something. We walk by faith and not by sight. It is a law not subject to change.

Without a parable /allegory Christ healed not .Every healing represented a unseen work of the gospel .Christ did not heal people for any other reason. There are no instant healing , they served their purpose.

No one said there was not a literal healing but again it was not the focus ,the focus is eternal not seen. For every one of those people he did use as a metaphor did die. Again literal healing is not the purpose intended. God heals people every day whether they believe it was his work or not .God does not heal by human hand /will , He is not served by them.

We walk by faith(believing) , not after we see something happen (no faith) .That would be what the Jews did, they would not believe without a sign and developed their own kosher signs and wonders through the oral traditions of the fathers ,Christ’s nemesis

He never did.Yes

He believed by faith (that not seen) All of the old testament saints died without receiving the promised of that heavenly city..

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Yes by a exclusive faith that came from hearing God (prophecy) they walked through . Those who walked by sight drowned. It was a sign of rebellious. Just as the signs of rebellion that were in the ark . Manna, Arron's staff, tables of the covenant that were broken the first time. All of those were signs against us that spoke to the rebels.

Moses was commanded to put the book of the law, the bible on the side of the ark as a twines of their rebellion.

Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death? Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them. For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.Deu 31:26-29

Tongues was a witness against the Jew who walked by sight and not after the hearing of Christ's faith.

Moses was not walking by sight, and experience is not the validator of spiritual truth. God’s word alone is. Smelling, and seeing did not prove he had the Spirit of Christ. He believed before the enemy saw the sign intended for them . The sign came after they began their walk of faith . Signs are for those who believe not prophecy .Prophecy for those who do believe the word of God. .

Yes, evidence of things not seen.Moses did not see a sign before he would believe God .He walked by faith, the unseen.

The Son of man, Jesus experienced the supernatural working of him who provides lying signs and wonders. Some call it an out of the body experience hoping it proves they have the Holy Spirit. .Christ never left His body it was the lies that were brought into his mind. He said again and again as it is written (prophecy.)

Prophecy is for those who believe God to the salvation of their new soul. Signs are for those who rebel against prophecy. It is why the Jew sought after signs making prophecy without effect.

Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, “It is written again”, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Adam and Eve walked by sight .They refused to hear the voice of Him who has no form .(walking by faith).But rather did the pleasure of the will in respect to what they did see. God did not want them to experience death by walking by sight.

The law means what it says. Sign are for those who rebel (no faith) Prophecy for those who believe God. (have faith)

Any religious work to include the oral traditions of Kosher. They added to the word , as a sign of unbelief ,making the word of God without effect by their traditions they did see smell, feel, taste .

They basically asked Christ why he does not get under the authority of things seen rather than the word of God . they thought by washing there hands it was a sign God was with them .The believing Jew (no faith) did many many things like that and continue this day.

Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?Matthew 15:2

presidente · Jan 23, 2017

MattTooFor said:

You are getting really obnoxious now. Like I said, I don't claim to prophesy.

What would you say to an atheist that said he'd lost his keys, and he quoted a verse about God answering prayers made in faith, and then obnoxiously demanded that if God was real, that you would pray for him to find his key and he would find it right away. If he were obnoxious enough, you would probably deny his request.

This is something different than prayer, too. Genuine prophecies are given by the will of God. And you can pray for that yourself. I didnt' tell you I prophesied or worked miracles. I told you I believe what the Bible says about it.

And you don't make excuses on this. You just dodged the question and hurled accusations instead of answering. Why don't you believe the teaching of the scripture on spirtiual gifts? You have no scripture that says that the gift of the working of miracles has ceased. Why don't you believe I Corinthians 12 where it teaches that this gift is given as the Spirit wills?

As for your response, it seems rather conflicted, but I'll accept that's how you feel. If you really want to be wrong, then you should be respectful to the Holy Spirit in regard to spiritual gifts like prophecy and miracles. They are in the Bible after all.

I am very much anti-idolatry. I have encountered plenty of evangelicals who seem to be soft on it, and on the issue of eating meat offered to idols. Do you think people who accept the scripture at face value and believe in spiritual gifts in the post-apostolic period are really Baal worshippers? Do you really thing that Ireneaus, St. Patrick, or John Wesley were Baal worshippers or some other kind of pagan? Do you really think John Piper is?

You aren't on Elijah's side on this one. Your attitude seems more like that of the youths who insulted him.

I think you greatly overestimate how many people are reading this thread, how important they perceive your posts, and how well they remember you as a poster.

There is plenty of stuff probably more amazing on YouTube. But critics can always dismiss the evidence. If someone told you what you were thinking or what you had for dinner last night, other people wouldn't know that information. The Spirit says what the Spirit wants to say. We can't expect that His priorities are to shock, amaze, entertain, or scratch some itch you may have in your ear.

If you want a prophecy, ask God to send someone to give you one, and pray in faith without doubting in Jesus' name.

notuptome · Jan 23, 2017

Prophecy is Gods word spoken.

John 11:47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

Caiaphas was not even aware of the prophecy he spoke.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

presidente · Jan 23, 2017

garee said:

Why don't you show me who in this forum is saying you should seek a sign before you believe? I don't remember anyone saying that.

I do see in the Bible that God is merciful. There are unbelievers who won't believe until they see something supernatural. That doesn't mean it is right for unbelievers to be that way. It was not right for prostitutes to ply their trade. But John the Baptist and Jesus helped bring such people to repentance. That happens through the mercy of God. It was also through the mercy of God that Jesus did signs and wonders while ministering to those who would not believe unless they saw signs and wonders.

I am not ignoring a warning. I suspect that you are reading something into the verse, maybe some of these false pronouncements you keep making about signs, that is not actually in that verse.

No direct sign? There are lots of things that, when they are fulfilled, are a sign. Jesus even called one sign a sign, the sign of the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven....

We can find different reasons Jesus healed in scripture. I can find a reason Jesus healed in Matthew 8, that the scripture might be fulfilled.

And in another case, that a man might know that the Son of man had power on earth to forgive sin. Jesus was also moved with compassion before the feeding of the five thousand.

You are just making stuff up again. The Bible doesn't teach that, and some people's experiences contradict it.

Hebrews 11:11
11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised.

Sarah had faith. And then, she saw, felt, and experienced the results of conceiving seed. She believed, and then had the experience of it. She never saw all the descendants Isaac had, or all of the spiritual implications. But she did conceive seed in her lifetime. We can pray and believe God, and then experience, see, feel, hear, etc. the results of our prayers after God answers them. God actually answering our prayers is not contrary to faith, even though answered prayer is actually an evidence that the Christian faith is real.

You seem to reason backwards, over and over. If you only believe God if you see the answer to your prayer, for example, what kind of faith is that? You believe God, and then you see the answer to your prayer. If you said you believe God answered prayer, and I responded as if you were saying you would only believe in God if He answered your prayer, you would think I was confused?

But you make the same argument concerning miracles. Those who work miracles have faith first, and then the miracle happens. That is different from this idea you seem to have that people want to work a miracle so they can believe God. You keep making a straw man argument. You do the same with speaking in tongues, and it does not make sense in the context of the conversation.

Straw man argument. Who is arguing for this? Why do you keep repeating this idea when it is not relevant to the conversation? Fortunately, you seem to be backing away from the confused unbiblical idea that stuff actually happening after we believe is contrary to faith.

And divers tongues is a manifestation of the Spirit given to the body of Christ for the common good. And speaking in tongues edifies the speaker. And speaking in tongues, if interpreted, edifies the congregation. We should not believe just one verse of scripture on the subject, but all of them.

Signs are also for believers, like the apostles who wanted to know the signs of Jesus' coming. Again, let's believe the other verses, and not just pick one verse, read something into it that isnt' there, and bel

Moses did ask for a sign at the beginning of Exodus when he was called. God gave him a sign.

Exodus 3:12
He said, “But I will be with you, and this shall be the sign for you, that I have sent you: when you have brought the people out of Egypt, you shall serve God on this mountain.” (ESV)

So Moses did get a sign. The sign here was a fulfilled prediction. When it came to pass, it was a sign to Moses that the LORD had sent him. First Moses had to believe God and obey Him, and go get the children of Israel and bring them back to the mountain. After all this happened and they served God on that mountain, that fulfiled prediction was a sign to Moses that the LORD had sent him.

So there was a sign for Moses to, but one that required him to believe God first. That does not do much for your implied argument that signs are only for unbelievers.

You don't have the authority to write the law. Why don't you stick with what the verses you quote actually say? You quote a verse that says that tongues are a sign to them that believe not. It does not say that signs are for them that believe not. I assume you are trying to imply that signs are only for them that believe not, an idea that contradicts scripture.

MattTooFor · Jan 23, 2017

presidente said:

I'm not an atheist who has lost his keys. I am a sincere believer who loves the Lord and longs for the day when I and my family and loved ones (and whoever else I can "snatch from the fire") is held safely in the arms of Jesus.

I am not simply a 'sneering jerk' who is gleefully intent on being a party-pooper for Pentecostal doctrines. I sincerely believe your doctrines to be incorrect and harmful to large numbers of believers.

We could point to Saul/Paul as another example of this "two things at once" scenario: He was sincere in his devotion to God and at the same time was hugely opposed to Christianity, in his ignorance. Therefore, God decided to step in and electrify Saul with undeniable "prophecy", revealing Himself with a thundering voice from heaven.

I am sincere in my faith, yet I oppose Pentecostalism. Again, I am the perfect candidate for a confirming miracle of "the gift of prophecy".

Right. You've already said that. Tongues also required God "giving utterance". It did not stop people from speaking in tongues virtually at will. In fact, there apparently was too much "tongues-speaking". So...there was a significant presence of the gift of prophecy...just in one fellowship group alone, right there in Corinth.

If Pentecostals are correct with their non-cessationism, there should be at least multiple people in any given fellowship who are presenting any number of "prophecies" on a rather regular basis. Fellowship circles like yours and/or the fellowship circle here at Christian Chat.

If the gift is still in existence, there should be NO PROBLEM in encountering an eye-popping manifestation of "prophecy" (in contradiction to 1Cor. 13)...which I AM doing right now, with the Christian Chat fellowship..and HAVE DONE in the past. In fact, it makes no sense that this gift of prophecy isn't currently being practiced among the Charismatics and Pentecostals right here at this discussion board.

I'm not sure which "questions" you think I've dodged, lol. We have about 6000 miles of vertical posting between us on this thread so...I have maybe five thousand more words in me before I have to check into the emergency room.

I certainly accuse this healer you endorsed (whether inadvertently or not) of being false. He 's one of these typical "forehead-slapping" guys who go from town to town performing non-"Jesus-style" and non-"apostle-style" pseudo-miracles...where he slaps people on the forehead, they then fall into a fake faint or under demonic influence...and then...NO visible miracle. No healing of the blind, instantly back to 20/20 vision...no healing of the "lame" into instant health.

And by the way, please stop with this "Jesus caused people to spasm, shake and collapse" stuff. Good grief.

So, agreeing with you is equal to agreeing with the Holy Spirit? Good grief, bro.

Oh brother. For a guy who self-servingly put himself in the role of Jesus and me in the role of Herod...you're a bit picky about these comparisons. For the record - Yes, I absolutely, completely and literally believe you worship Baal, lol.

Oh brother (again). No, I can see there are maybe 3 or 4 people who have looked in. But if we start a new thread dedicated to your prophecies, there'll be added interest. And then if the prophecy is validated, it will have the same effect as it had in the olden days - a pretty big splash here at Christian Chat and beyond.

Actually, that would contradict what Paul said...which is that "prophecy" would have this electrifying effect of confirming the Gospel and God's power.

But I have asked YOU to track down someone. You're the one making the aggressive claims. You have made remarks suggesting you are deeply tied into the Pentecostal world. There should be any number of people in your proximity who should be able to offer a prophecy. Why would you or they deny that? Because I'm an 'unbeliever'? That's makes me a perfect candidate, as I have stated over and over.

And by the way, nobody has to "log in" (one of your growing number of excuses). They can just hand you a sheet of paper or phone it in...and you type it in. Presto!

But you see, my unbelief conflicts with the standard refrain among Charismatics which contradicts 1Cor.14...which is that we have great difficulty seeing these gifts today because we are 'substandard' Christians compared to olden times. The classic self-loathing syndrome that motivates me to oppose these doctrines.

And that is again, counter-biblical. In 1Cor.14, unbelievers (people who were unbelieving)...were blindsided and electrified to receive a precision-targeted prophecy.

Demi777 · Jan 23, 2017

Just a short note... doctrine is never good. No matter if pentecostal charismatic like presidente and I, which I disagree with many parts of the doctrine so I dont even know if I still count as Pentecostal, or any other denomination.
Im not accusing anyone of anything. I just want to throw in one thought.
Follow Christ, not a pastor or church.

I fullheartetly disagree with speaking in tongues being a requirement for salvation.
And I found those verses in John chapter 9 very interesting..so much to everyone being healed

Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3Jesus answered,“Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened that the works of God would be displayed in him.

Just food for a thought

shittim · Jan 23, 2017

Great post once more Miss Demi777, when I first was prayed for the word was I already had it, I just hadn't used it.
It isn't always what the church teaches, it is always what the Bible teaches.
John Wimber video The Kingdom of G-d is one you may enjoy and grow through, he explains some of his experience in walking with the Lord his nearly whole adult life.
Blessings

Demi777 · Jan 23, 2017

Ive been going deeper into studies as I found that I had some doctrine in my head and it hardenes me against the truth. I am still glad that a good friend of mine brought it to my attention and that the Lord let me be teachable and eager to learn.
We can only grow when we get out of the thinking of the world and into the thinking of God.

shittim said:

Demi777 · Jan 23, 2017

The word of God is a two edged sword, not the words of a pastor.

shittim · Jan 23, 2017

We are seeing a situation where people in positions in the church hierarchy believe their position
in the church gains them status in the Kingdom. Another result of thinking salvation is through the church
whereas those of genuine faith worship Christ in personal relationship.
Blessings

aldy · Jan 23, 2017

Demi777 said:

not true,
2John 1:9
9 | Whosoever goeth onward and abideth not in the teaching of Christ, hath not God: he that abideth in the teaching, the same hath both the Father and the Son.
there is a teaching of Christ, that means there is a good doctrine

Demi777 said:

but it is the church which is given in marriage, it's also called: ekklesia=a called-out assembly or congregation.
John 10:16
16 | And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd.

but if you find that your pastor don't do holy things well, how can you hid your eyes from that and how can you stay there
Revelation 18:4
4 | And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues:

Grace777x70 · Jan 23, 2017

Demi777 said:

I agree with what you said here. It is important to follow the Lord and not get hung up on being "doctrinally perfect"...Well said!

I just want to comment on John 9:3 that you quoted above as it leaves the impression that the man was born blind so that the works of God could heal him and some translations make it "seem" that this is true.

In others words = He was made blind on purpose so that God could heal him. Not true.

John 9:3-5 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] "We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] "While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world."

The " it was " is initialized which means that it is not in the original Greek but was added by the translators. If you believed that sickness comes from God then they would add their own thoughts into the passage and so the added "It was" .

When you take the "it was " out and read it - it says something different.

"Neither this man sinned nor his parents. ( stop ) But that the works of God might be displayed in him I must work the works of God who sent Me while it is still day."

This shows a completely different meaning of that passage. Jesus is simply saying that the man was born blind had nothing to do with any person's sin but the important thing is for Jesus to heal him and do the works of His Father. That was the main thing to be looking at Jesus said.

Anyway....I just wanted to point that out as some people like to use this verse to say that God makes us sick and it is not true at all. I hate it when our Father's character is being mis-represented.

( I am not saying you were doing that but people use that verse to try to make it say that. )....

Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

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