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Thread: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    It's happening overseas----and it's coming to America-----Reinhart Bonnkee-----"America Will Be Saved"...

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    Understand how you feel----but it's coming to America----you won't have to take a 5th hand story---you'll see it with your own eyes...

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace View Post
    The Spirit keeps saying to me that He is coming soon too.

    I asked God once why He doesn't seem to give the gift of healing so much as in the NT. The answer I got was He can't find many He can trust with the gift.
    That makes total sense to me. I feel like God is preparing me in regards to this gift, though in what capacity, I can't truly say, yet, and I do believe that there is a great responsibility when one is granted such a gift, just like all the gifts. We must be humble and prepared and good stewards.
    "Hi, my name is Julie and I am here to state the obvious."

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    Keep pressing in-----God has more for you than you think----something special is coming to America...

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    God is preparing the Church presently for this----it's happening overseas---it's coming to America---- I know a young man personally-- who raised a baby from the dead in Africa--been to Churches that are demonstrating Sign, Wonders, and Miracles----the most important thing is souls---God does not pour out His Wonders for entertainment (America Style)---but He is preparing a people to walk like the Apostles...
    Blain, Pilkington and Awakened like this.

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    Quote Originally Posted by MattTooFor View Post
    Wow. I do not understand most of the folks on this thread. There simply are NOT any Jesus-style miracles occurring today. It's...just...not...happening. I understand people want a sign from heaven. We ALL want a sign. We'd all love to be held safely in the arms of Jesus. But that comes later.
    This is the same type of reasoning an atheist uses. He doesn't know there is a God, hasn't seen evidence that fits the standard he makes up in his own mind or convinces himself he hasn't, and then decrees that there is no God. To really know that, He'd have to be omniscient.

    You are not omniscient. How can you say such signs are not occurring?

    I have seen some things with my own eyes that don't fit into the worldview of a lot of cessationists. I went to a large church of about 3,000 when I was in middle school. It had a Christian school, and there was a girl one year ahead of me who had some obvious visual problems. She had extremely crossed eyes and wore 'coke bottle glasses' that magnified her eyes and did not look like normal eye glasses.

    An evangelist came to our church and at the end of his message, prayed for the sick. He told about cancers falling off under his hands at another meeting. He was young, and seemed pretty excited about that. People went up for an altar call. I saw him walk a woman out of a wheelchair. I'd never seen her before, so I didn't get that excited about it.

    The next day, I went to school. The kids were saying the girl with the thick eye glasses and crossed eyes had been healed. (They said her name, which I did not know.) So I went over and talk to her while we waited for the doors to open for school. She said the evangelist had laid hands on her. She had been healed. She wasn't wearing her glasses and here eyes looked as straight and normal as mine.

    That is the first instance I saw of physical healing that I could witness with my own eyes.

    I've also witnessed a number of other gifts. Most of the 'amazing' stuff would be in the prophecy and word of knowledge category, where an individual knows things he could not naturally know. I've also prayed things for people I did not know about with my natural mind and I've gotten words of knowledge for people, so I know a little about it from that end of it as well.

    Right now, the emphasis is "faith is the substance of things unseen". We're supposed to live "by faith and not by sight". But there are many who want to cut that corner. They want to see heaven before heaven gets here (with the return of the King).
    I notice a lot of people totally take that verse out of context. That verse is not in conflict with the idea of doing miracles, prophesying, healing, etc. How do we know that? Look at the men who wrote that verse and the type of things they taught. Paul was a miracle worker who performed miracles and therefore, of course, saw them. So walking by faith and not by sight is not contrary to doing or seeing a miracle.

    Yes, I've heard all the stories about "some guy in Africa...and this was about 12 years ago...and I heard this from a friend of a friend who heard a missionary speaker tell about a resurrection". Is this like...a fifth-hand story?

    The sign gifts are meant for your eyeballs only. Not to be received fifth-hand, 16 years after the fact and from a distance of 10,000 miles. If you want the sign gift to have the intended effect, it needs to happen directly in front of the eyewitness. Not two years, fourth-hand, at a distance of a thousand miles.
    Jerusalem and Galilee are probably pretty far away from most of us. And 1970 years ago is a lot longer than 12 years, yet we believe in miracles in Biblical times.

    If you want to look for some discussion of historical accounts of miracles and healings in post Biblical times, I hear Craig Keener, an academic, has a book out called 'Miracles', which started as a footnote and grew to over 1000 pages of documented accounts of healing and miracles from throughout church history.
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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    Quote Originally Posted by 88 View Post
    It's happening overseas----and it's coming to America-----Reinhart Bonnkee-----"America Will Be Saved"...
    Oh boy. Reinhard Bonnke? Yikes. That guy is waaaaay off the reservation, in my view. No hard feelings.

    He is a part of that whole 'new-fangled' New Apostolic Reformation which claims they have authority to re-establish the offices of "apostles" and "prophets". And who exactly would have such authority to make these appointments? Unclear.

    Usually, it is C. Peter Wagner who does the honors. Here you have a YouTube of him "anointing" Todd Bentley who is acting like an unstable crazy man (go to the 5:30 mark) during the ceremony...and who immediately proceeded to dump his wife in favor of a pretty girl on the church staff.

    So much for the anointing authority and discernment of New Apostolic Reformation mucky-mucks! I mean...I took one single look at that Bentley guy, and thought 'who would think in a million years to anoint this guy for anything??'.

    Frankly, I think Wagner is an actual wolf. I don't know about Bonnke.
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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    Quote Originally Posted by Awakened View Post
    Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    Are we not Spirit filled like they were or is it from lack of faith, prayer, or fasting?

    I believe we experience some miracles but nothing like they did.
    When I was a kid I stepped on a bee. My whole leg swelled up. I couldn't walk on it for three weeks.

    When I was dating future-hubby, a bee stung my hand. I did my calm, trustful screech and panicked. He prayed for me. Not even a normal bump most people get when stung.

    For the first two years we were married, I got an UTI every other month like clockwork. I think it was every other month because the antibiotics back then took six weeks. Extremely uncomfortable, so when I got it again, I cried. Hubby prayed over me, and poof. It was gone. That was 34 years ago. I've had three since.

    During a cocnert, one of my friend's son came to me looking for his Mom. (His Dad was on stage.) I didn't know where she was, so he told me if I see her to tell her he had a terrible headache and needed to go home. I suggested we pray for it to go away. He was good with that one, and we did... and it did. (Much to my surprise. lol)

    My husband stayed overnight in the hospital after he broke his back. (His doctor called him Quasimodo. lol) His roommate had gout and it hurt terribly. hubby heard God tell him to pray for the guy. Long story short, he finally laid hands on the guy and prayed. The guy fell asleep. Hubby was awaken the next morning from some guy in the hallway yelling that God had healed him of the pain. (The gout was still there. Just no pain. And that roommate was discharged before hubby.)

    In November 2015, hubby had a massive heart attack. The ER doctor told him he was dying if he didn't go on a vent immediately. The cardiologist gave me the "we will do all we can but don't get your hopes up speech. Hubby needed stents immediately, but that hospital didn't do it, so he had to be transferred to another one two blocks away. Hubby remember he was being wheeled down a corridor quickly and someone said, "This one isn't going to make it."

    He did make it. The next day I got two friends to get as many people as they knew to pray for him. One of those friends was on here, and a lot of people prayed for him.

    And then they prayed when he got pneumonia. And then they prayed when he got a bad infection -- so bad the Intensivist said, "I am the doctor who takes care of all 35 patience in the ICU and your husband is my sickest. That first night he had a 10-15% chance of living. Tonight he has a 50-50 chance. A 40 white blood count means you're on death's door. He had a 47.

    As he was recovering from that his kidneys shut down. He was on dialysis for three days, (and no one told me his kidneys shut down. They told me he can still pee.) And then more of that infection, but not quite as bad. And then he had a clot in his leg, and he kept losing blood, even if they didn't know how. (In two months he had over 50 units of blood.)

    And finally he wasn't so sick that they could give him and MRI only to find out he blew his microvalve and some of the muscle connecting it during that heart attack. (Really explained his inability to stay stable.) And finally on December 23, he was okay enough for open heart surgery to give him a new valve.

    He lost all muscle moment from apathy, except the ability to move his finger on one hand. Four months of touch and go, (still losing more blood), and he finally turned the corner. Another month to get well enough to come home.

    He's home. He's upstairs sleeping in his bed. (This is big, since he couldn't climb those stairs for the first month he was home without assistance.)

    His doctors were shocked to see him again. The ambulance drivers were too. Some of his doctors have told him he should be dead.

    So, huh? What miracles aren't happening today?
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    MatTooFor,

    Where did you get that Bonnke was part of the NAR. I'd never heard of that, but I'd imagine the NAR folks would want to acknowledge him.

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    Quote Originally Posted by presidente View Post
    This is the same type of reasoning an atheist uses. He doesn't know there is a God, hasn't seen evidence that fits the standard he makes up in his own mind or convinces himself he hasn't, and then decrees that there is no God. To really know that, He'd have to be omniscient.

    You are not omniscient. How can you say such signs are not occurring?
    Not claiming "omniscience". Just making a reasonable assessment of the available evidence (I would argue). Just because atheists are wrong, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

    Just the fact that you have to reach back 35 years in your own life, sets off the alarm bells. I certainly don't have to reach back 35 years to have witnessed someone practicing the gift of hospitality, the gift of teaching, the gift of service, etc. And even then...your story has some 'second-hand' aspects to it...and one would wonder how accurate is the discernment and observational powers of a 9-year-old (was it?). No offense. It's just that i am looking at the big picture of "dog and pony show" Charismatic "healing" practices.

    The first grand observation that I've never seen rebutted...is the total absence of the Gift of Tongues in speaking other earthly languages. there should be hundreds if not thousands of Charismatic missionaries who have fanned out all over the globe and who have gone directly to various countries with an immediate ability to speak in all the foreign languages without making a stop at the language institute.

    And so if you add to that the fact that in my 60 years of being in the church world, I have seen neither hide nor hair of any Jesus-style over-the-top uber-miracle...in which there were missing eyeballs, severed spinal cord paralysis, etc.

    Now...you're are telling me your favorite story. But again, 'sign gifts' are for MY eyeballs, not yours. You're not supposed to be telling me what I should believe based on what you've seen. You're supposed to demonstrate the gift directly to my eyeballs...or else don't ask of me to believe your second-hand story. No one, in the early Christian era, was asking non-believers to believe some 'crazy' story about someone being able to stand up during the service and spontaneously speaking in Russian (or whatever) and then some other person being able to interpret.

    No, they would take that non-believer directly to a fellowship group. Brother, you can't do that! If you claim otherwise, you're in denial.

    Because the gifts back in those days were still ongoing, any believer could eagerly invite a non-believer to the fellowship, confident that this person would see something convincingly miraculous...whether a healing, or an ability to speak in a foreign language, etc.
    Last edited by MattTooFor; January 10th, 2017 at 12:53 AM.
    My 'e-booklet' - The Great Apostasy Plot

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    While it is true that we don't see these things near as often as we used to I don't think it's because of lack of faith or anything at least not completely. I haven't personally seen any miracles like that but I believe in them fully. I have sought after the gift of healing for a long time because I can't stand to see others sick and in pain however he has not yet given it to me.

    This kind of healing is real but not seen as often in real life, however there is a type of healing that I value much more and that we all can do and that is the healing of the heart. our body can be sick and can receive scars and bruises our bones can break and we can be cut stabbed and in severe pain but while all this is true the inner wounds and pains and the inner cuts scars and bruises are so much deeper and so much harder to heal. while I wish I had the gift of physical healing I have seen God use me and others to help mend and heal the inner wounds of others and I have to say when you see how God uses us to heal the inner wounds and to mend the deepest scars inside of a persons heart it brings you to tears.

    There is a kind of healing that is needed more than the physical healing and that is the inner healing, every word of encouragement every act of love every building of another who is wounded and broken inside makes far more of a difference than we will ever know. I know this because I have had such inner wounds inside and still do and so I know what it's like to have those wounds mended and it's life changing, it is for this reason I have sought after his eyes so that I may be able to look into a persons hearts to see their pain their anguish their hardships their life troubles I want to see their strengths and their weaknesses I want to be able to read their hearts like a book so that he can use me to help them.

    There are are wounds and bleeedings inside people that no one else knows of not even their closest friends only God see it and these are the hearts that need this kind of healing
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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    Quote Originally Posted by MattTooFor View Post
    Obviously, these Jesus-style miracles are not going on today. The age-old answer given by us who view the Charismatic beliefs as false doctrines (with all due respect) is...that these 'over-the-top' miracles were used during the transition phase in the first years of the Christian era...as a means of Christianity getting its foot in the door (so to speak).

    For example, if the "Charismatic" gifts were still in operation today...then we should be able to see wave after wave of hundreds and thousands of Charismatic missionaries going off to all the lands of the world and BEING ABLE TO INSTANTLY SPEAK ALL THE LANGUAGES without going to any language institute. That isn't happening.

    In dramatic contrast to all these pseudo-miracles we can see on our Sunday morning cable channel TV church shows, Jesus' miracles had a number of distinctive features not being seen on BennyHinn TV (or several dozen others like him);

    Jesus would walk into a community and (read carefully) choose someone to heal WHO WAS PREVIOUSLY KNOWN TO THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY. And NOT necessarily a 'believer'.

    That would mean...someone claiming a gift of healing would need to select a well-known handicapped person -- Stevie Wonder, Joni Eareckson-Tada, famous wounded war veterans...who have missing eyeballs, severed spinal cords, etc..

    THAT...is a Jesus-style miracle. Not this nonsense you see on a Benny Hinn show or other televised "healing" church services...where they find some guy completely unknown to the audience, pay him $20 to hobble into the sanctuary with a walker, he then gets his 'healing touch', and proceeds to dramatically toss the walker across the stage as though there has been a healing.
    I agree with the "transition phase" as you said. It may have been Christianity getting it's foot in the door but I think it was also used to foreshadow new testament realities. I can't think of a good example right now but something like causing a blind person to see would be a foreshadow of Christian being able to see spiritual thing.

    I just thought of one...

    Mark 2:3 KJV
    And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.

    A sick person born of four - Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, the FOUR gospels brought the man to Jesus to be healed.
    Psalm 12:6 KJV
    The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    Jesus said that the only sign given to this wicked generation is the sign of Jonah. Jonah was a prophet who heard the word of God, and yet Jonah did not do what he was instructed to do; In general this can apply to Jonah's life. He was instructed to go to the people of Nineveh and witness for them to surrender their lives. But, because Jonah hated people who didn't love God, he turned away from those he saw as filthy with sin..., and became like the people he hated...he chose not to hear God. He chose not to go out to give witness! To say we go to church...,what is that? Our Lord and King has mansions waiting for those who seek Him. Even if a person does not know creation language, if we wear the shoes of Jonah...,and we have...

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    While it is true that we don't see these things near as often as we used to I don't think it's because of lack of faith or anything at least not completely. I haven't personally seen any miracles like that but I believe in them fully. I have sought after the gift of healing for a long time because I can't stand to see others sick and in pain however he has not yet given it to me.

    This kind of healing is real but not seen as often in real life, however there is a type of healing that I value much more and that we all can do and that is the healing of the heart. our body can be sick and can receive scars and bruises our bones can break and we can be cut stabbed and in severe pain but while all this is true the inner wounds and pains and the inner cuts scars and bruises are so much deeper and so much harder to heal. while I wish I had the gift of physical healing I have seen God use me and others to help mend and heal the inner wounds of others and I have to say when you see how God uses us to heal the inner wounds and to mend the deepest scars inside of a persons heart it brings you to tears.

    There is a kind of healing that is needed more than the physical healing and that is the inner healing, every word of encouragement every act of love every building of another who is wounded and broken inside makes far more of a difference than we will ever know. I know this because I have had such inner wounds inside and still do and so I know what it's like to have those wounds mended and it's life changing, it is for this reason I have sought after his eyes so that I may be able to look into a persons hearts to see their pain their anguish their hardships their life troubles I want to see their strengths and their weaknesses I want to be able to read their hearts like a book so that he can use me to help them.

    There are are wounds and bleeedings inside people that no one else knows of not even their closest friends only God see it and these are the hearts that need this kind of healing
    yes brother God is going to heal the broken hearted in the church and his already realeased at the cross and the spiritual atmosphere in the world already. its ok God is in control he will heal people so they can love him alot
    Romans 14:11 [Full Chapter]
    For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.”

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    A friend of mine was called to hospital to pray for a woman with cervical cancer. There were only two options for her, one was a hysterectomy and the other was and operation to remove the tumour with chemotherapy afterwards. He started to pray for her and she was in a hospital room full of Muslims. Her doctor is a Muslim. My friend prayed for her and he told her she was healed. During the night she got a sensation in her body and she went to the bathroom. All the cancer fell into the toilet and she sat there for about an hour.

    The next morning her husband phoned him with the news and this Muslim doctor was not convinced. The sisters told him what happened and said it is impossible. They did some tests on her and she was clean.

    Praise ABBA Father for miracles

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    Quote Originally Posted by presidente View Post
    MatTooFor,

    Where did you get that Bonnke was part of the NAR. I'd never heard of that, but I'd imagine the NAR folks would want to acknowledge him.
    Oh my goodness -- he's involved in NAR up to his earlobes. He's a leader of the movement, from my reading. He is "NAR folks". Here's an article, as one example.
    My 'e-booklet' - The Great Apostasy Plot

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    Quote Originally Posted by MattTooFor View Post
    Obviously, these Jesus-style miracles are not going on today. The age-old answer given by us who view the Charismatic beliefs as false doctrines (with all due respect) is...that these 'over-the-top' miracles were used during the transition phase in the first years of the Christian era...as a means of Christianity getting its foot in the door (so to speak).

    For example, if the "Charismatic" gifts were still in operation today...then we should be able to see wave after wave of hundreds and thousands of Charismatic missionaries going off to all the lands of the world and BEING ABLE TO INSTANTLY SPEAK ALL THE LANGUAGES without going to any language institute. That isn't happening.

    In dramatic contrast to all these pseudo-miracles we can see on our Sunday morning cable channel TV church shows, Jesus' miracles had a number of distinctive features not being seen on BennyHinn TV (or several dozen others like him);

    Jesus would walk into a community and (read carefully) choose someone to heal WHO WAS PREVIOUSLY KNOWN TO THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY. And NOT necessarily a 'believer'.

    That would mean...someone claiming a gift of healing would need to select a well-known handicapped person -- Stevie Wonder, Joni Eareckson-Tada, famous wounded war veterans...who have missing eyeballs, severed spinal cords, etc..

    THAT...is a Jesus-style miracle. Not this nonsense you see on a Benny Hinn show or other televised "healing" church services...where they find some guy completely unknown to the audience, pay him $20 to hobble into the sanctuary with a walker, he then gets his 'healing touch', and proceeds to dramatically toss the walker across the stage as though there has been a healing.
    Some day, when you grow up, learn what "with all due respect" means, and apply it.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

    Quote Originally Posted by 88 View Post
    God is preparing the Church presently for this----it's happening overseas---it's coming to America---- I know a young man personally-- who raised a baby from the dead in Africa--been to Churches that are demonstrating Sign, Wonders, and Miracles----the most important thing is souls---God does not pour out His Wonders for entertainment (America Style)---but He is preparing a people to walk like the Apostles...
    what you say is true my friend I have seen these people you speak of he showed them to me in a dream once. The apostles were merely a foreshadow these people he is creating will walk in his light power and love on a level not even the church of acts expereinced
    My life's testimony seems to have helped many people so I am going to put it here http://christianchat.com/testimonies...-new-post.html

    When the hearts of God and a child of his make that special intimate connection a wondrous power is born and a flame ignites that can never be put out

    Jesus knew more than anyone of us-Love hurts

    The strongest among you may not wear a crown

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