Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

[trofimus]

Who says all the false are indeed false? Jesus said stop what you were doing or something greater may happen to you.. healing is maintained.. The girls parents were told to feed her.. Jesus brought her back and yet she needed food?... Come on now

Miracles "performed" today are mostly "pain is gone", "you have short leg - look, now I made it longer", "she is on the wheelchair and look, she walks!" etc.


These are not mireacles at all.

The first group is highly subjective, pain disappears when the adrenalin goes higher or autosugestion starts to work.
Prolonging the legs is such a nonsense that I hope I do not need to talk about it as about something possibly real.
And the last group is just a manipulation with people, most people on a wheelchair or with staffs can make some short walk without it.

The real miracles (true healing of organs) are virtually non-existent today. Some individual cases always happen in every generation, but this thread was about some higher count, like in the days of apostles, IMHO.

 

[plainguy]

The answer is too simple for many. There are no apostles today.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Jesus said that the only sign given to this wicked generation is the sign of Jonah. Jonah was a prophet who heard the word of God, and yet Jonah did not do what he was instructed to do; In general this can apply to Jonah's life. He was instructed to go to the people of Nineveh and witness for them to surrender their lives. But, because Jonah hated people who didn't love God, he turned away from those he saw as filthy with sin..., and became like the people he hated...he chose not to hear God. He chose not to go out to give witness! To say we go to church...,what is that? Our Lord and King has mansions waiting for those who seek Him. Even if a person does not know creation language, if we wear the shoes of Jonah...,and we have...

Some have been encouraged just recently because they perceived some change, small but perceptible, in some of the threads. I know of at least three who have perceived it. To those who perceived it, I have taken liberty with this wonderful post by yaright that I quoted to bold a few things. I think you will understand what I am saying and the encouragement and reminder I am sharing, because you are the very ones who have been the beginning of this slight upswell that you see with your own eyes, even though I don't think you are aware that your own determination to walk in the Spirit in obedience is what has wrought this small start. Yaright, thank you for not being upset at my liberty with bolding some words for a few of my brothers.

If you continue to influence them instead of them influencing you by the way they operate in a thread, you will see a bigger swell than this. It will go over the heads of all if you if you refuse their way and determine to not be swayed from your own instructions. One man obeying God can bring the wave but a cord of three or more strands won't be broken. Do not depise these small beginnings and do not tire. The wave is coming. Keep looking.

 

[trofimus]

Its only a question of time till the local charismatics/pentecostals register this thread and start to claim dozens of miracles, IMHO.

 

[presidente]

As He wills. Not as you will.

And not as you will either. If you say the Holy Spirit does not enable individuals to work miracles, you are infringing on His rights. That's presumptuous. You have no authority to say that the Spirit will not give this gift.

The scriptures say He gives and you say He does not.

 

[plainguy]

Rev 21:14

"The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were written the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. "

If there are more apostles today, whose are they ? Some will argue that this verse "doesn't mean that there will only be twelve" .. but specifically refers to the twelve of that era. Note though that the city had only twelve foundations. Is an apostle today an apostle on whose foundation we can build ? I know I wouldn't. We can't make the bible say what we want it to say.

 

[Demi777]

An apostle (Greek: ἀπόστολος, translit. apóstolos, lit. 'one who is sent away') is a messenger and ambassador. The purpose of such "sending away" is to convey messages, and thus "messenger" is a common alternative translation.

every preacher, follower of Christ is an apostle.

The answer is too simple for many. There are no apostles today.

 

[Grace777x70]

Apostles are "sent ones". There are no more apostles in the form of the original 12 but there have been many apostles throughout time. There are least 24 mentioned in the NT - 25 - if you count Jesus. ( Hebrews 3:1 )

How Many Apostles in the NT -- 12 or 25?

Apostles are "sent ones" for a purpose from the Lord Jesus Christ like Paul was an apostle ( sent one ) to the Gentiles. Some were 'sent ones" to the Jews.

If there are no more apostles or prophets - then that means we have grown up to the full stature of Christ and there are no more evangelists, pastors, or teachers.

Jesus gave us all these gifts so that we would grow up.

Ephesians 4:11-13 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

[SUP]12 [/SUP] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

[SUP]13[/SUP] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Notice that here it is God that has set apostles and prophets in the church - is the church still here on this earth?

1 Corinthians 12:28-29 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

 

[presidente]

Rev 21:14

"The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were written the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. "

If there are more apostles today, whose are they ? Some will argue that this verse "doesn't mean that there will only be twelve" .. but specifically refers to the twelve of that era. Note though that the city had only twelve foundations. Is an apostle today an apostle on whose foundation we can build ? I know I wouldn't. We can't make the bible say what we want it to say.

Please get out a concordance and look up every occurance of 'apostles' before writing stuff like this or use an online search tool like BlueLetter Bible to do the same thing. It is very clear that there were more than 12 apostles in the Bible. There is the 12, then Matthias replaced Judas. That's 13. Paul certainly did not meet the requirements to replace Judas that Peter mentioned, since he was not with the eleven from the time of John. Barnabas most likely was not. Yet Barnabas and Saul were called 'apostles' in Acts 14:4 and 14. Then there are Silvanus, Timothy, Apollos, and Epaphras.

The original 12 were appointed as apostles BEFORE the ascension. In Ephesians 4, we see that Christ ascended and gave apostles to men. So there were apostles given AFTER the ascension as well.

 

[88]

Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, & teachers will all be on Earth perfecting the saints--- doing the work of the ministry----until we reach the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ (Ephesians 4:11-16)----- just because the full restoration
process is not complete-----they are being restored---- watch and see with your own eyes what God is going to do...

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?


In a word: Unbelief.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?


In a word: Unbelief.

I agree. So how do we do what the man said and examine if we really ARE in belief (faith)?
I think this verse might give a clue: How can I tell you of heavenly things if you won't even believe Me concerning earthly things?

 

[HisHolly]

And anyone can dismiss what they want as well

Miracles "performed" today are mostly "pain is gone", "you have short leg - look, now I made it longer", "she is on the wheelchair and look, she walks!" etc.


These are not mireacles at all.

The first group is highly subjective, pain disappears when the adrenalin goes higher or autosugestion starts to work.
Prolonging the legs is such a nonsense that I hope I do not need to talk about it as about something possibly real.
And the last group is just a manipulation with people, most people on a wheelchair or with staffs can make some short walk without it.

The real miracles (true healing of organs) are virtually non-existent today. Some individual cases always happen in every generation, but this thread was about some higher count, like in the days of apostles, IMHO.

 

[Grace777x70]

And anyone can dismiss what they want as well

True..Jesus said that there would be some that would not believe even if one was raised from the dead.

 

[garee]

The answer is too simple for many. There are no apostles today.

You would have to add another meaning to the word apostle(sent one) in order to make that work out. All believers are commanded to go out as part of the great commission.

 

[popeye]

Not claiming "omniscience". Just making a reasonable assessment of the available evidence (I would argue). Just because atheists are wrong, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Just the fact that you have to reach back 35 years in your own life, sets off the alarm bells. I certainly don't have to reach back 35 years to have witnessed someone practicing the gift of hospitality, the gift of teaching, the gift of service, etc. And even then...your story has some 'second-hand' aspects to it...and one would wonder how accurate is the discernment and observational powers of a 9-year-old (was it?). No offense. It's just that i am looking at the big picture of "dog and pony show" Charismatic "healing" practices.

The first grand observation that I've never seen rebutted...is the total absence of the Gift of Tongues in speaking other earthly languages. there should be hundreds if not thousands of Charismatic missionaries who have fanned out all over the globe and who have gone directly to various countries with an immediate ability to speak in all the foreign languages without making a stop at the language institute.

And so if you add to that the fact that in my 60 years of being in the church world, I have seen neither hide nor hair of any Jesus-style over-the-top uber-miracle...in which there were missing eyeballs, severed spinal cord paralysis, etc.

Now...you're are telling me your favorite story. But again, 'sign gifts' are for MY eyeballs, not yours. You're not supposed to be telling me what I should believe based on what you've seen. You're supposed to demonstrate the gift directly to my eyeballs...or else don't ask of me to believe your second-hand story. No one, in the early Christian era, was asking non-believers to believe some 'crazy' story about someone being able to stand up during the service and spontaneously speaking in Russian (or whatever) and then some other person being able to interpret.

No, they would take that non-believer directly to a fellowship group. Brother, you can't do that! If you claim otherwise, you're in denial.

Because the gifts back in those days were still ongoing, any believer could eagerly invite a non-believer to the fellowship, confident that this person would see something convincingly miraculous...whether a healing, or an ability to speak in a foreign language, etc.

I have no idea how you could come up with such nonsense.

Paul said his mind was unfruitful but his spirit was edified.

And btw,there are a million things you have not personally seen,but take someone's word for it.

To change the obvious in the bible for the sake of some Baptist style doctrine is a very low road to travel.

It is THE SAME JESUS.

SAME AS THE EARLY CHURCH.

in fact,Elisha is the type of the church,and Elijah a type of Jesus.

Transferred anointing. The one you mock and reject.

 

[popeye]

Its only a question of time till the local charismatics/pentecostals register this thread and start to claim dozens of miracles, IMHO.

I assume you have cut all the miracles out of the bible?

The book of acts has them on almost every page.

Just remove the entire book of acts because your god does not move in that realm anyway.

 

[popeye]

Most every realm of God's pattern is EXPONENTIALLY GREATER.

ABRAM,ABRAHAM
JOB,JOBS INCREASE
DAVID,SOLOMON
ELIJAH,ELISHA
NOAH,THE POPULATION OF THE WORLD
JESUS,THE CHURCH
JESUS,GREATER WORKS
ELIJAH,ELISHA

CESSATIONISTS,ZERO.

which one will you pursue.?

 

[wwjd_kilden]

Re: Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?


In a word: Unbelief.

but the bible is full on funbelief
The people who walked with Jesus though most of his teaching days taught He was dead and went into hiding until he prooved He had risen. Not much faith there.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I agree. So how do we do what the man said and examine if we really ARE in belief (faith)?
I think this verse might give a clue: How can I tell you of heavenly things if you won't even believe Me concerning earthly things?

All right then, I'm going to go there. If someone wants to add to, jump in.

My Lord commands me to not worry for or about my provision. And He tells me to not store up treasure on earth. This is one of those very things - earthly. So, if I obey Him in an earthly, temporal, temporary thing that is not having to do with eternity but will be done away with, can He then tell me more about heavenly things? It sounds like what He was saying.

He said, if I am faithful with a little, He will entrust me with more. But if I am not, I will lose what little I have. To whoever has, more will be given, but to whoever does not have, even what little he has will be taken from him and given to someone else.
I think this means...if He has given me a little (like, do not worry for provision like the unbelievers do because He knows what I have need of) and I am not obedient, even this little understanding will be taken from me and given to someone else who will obey. If I'm not faithful in a little, and earthly, thing, how can He entrust me with more?

So when I see that I am not obeying Him, but that I DO worry about money for my provision, is this an area of unbelief that might cause me to not see miracles? I think it sounds right. So what is my next step? Do I try harder to not worry? Or have I found the very thing I need to set on in prayer? Have I found that no matter how hard I try to obey Him, I keep falling into this worry? The world, my own flesh, and the devil, seem to all converge on me to get me to not obey. Is the answer to just try harder to obey until I win?