Is It Possible To Backslide

[Grace777x70]

whaaaa?

you have mentioned heroin often enough to make me wonder if you did that?

then again, you appear to still be here so maybe not.........

joking aside, I do think people can destroy themselves...and go straight to he double sticks

I do believe there are scriptures in the NT that indicate that...otherwise, why all the warnings?

LOL..nope ...never took up shooting heroin in my arms and not planning on it either.

I think all works of the flesh are destructive to us in some form or other and all the warnings are justified for sure.

For me though - to focus on the warnings without having the foundation of walking by the spirit means which is the only thing that stops us from fulfilling the lusts of the flesh - can cause us to create a fear based works-based religion of "not doing things".

I don't think anyone is saying any works of the flesh are good things to be doing - from exhibiting malice and slandering others in the body of Christ to living a homosexual lifestyle.

I think the area of "tension" is how do we differentiate between walking by the spirit to stop these deeds of the body and trying to stop them from relying on our own fleshly efforts of man's will-power.

One produces the life of Christ - the other one can "mimic" this life but has no power to effect a real change in people.

This is why a Christian after pastoring a church for 20 years can do something that shocks people. The flesh is always going to be there until we leave this earth suit.

Trying to over-come the flesh with the flesh works for awhile - depending on our own personal will-power but in times of distress - it can rear it's ugly head again.

Then again there are those that say you go to hell for anything you do especially the sins that they don't do themselves and they seem to conveniently not think that deceit, malice and envy and things like these will not send us to hell like those "really bad sins". I believe that one is called "hypocrisy".

To me the real focus should be - how do we walk by the spirit?

 

[LaurenTM]

LOL..nope ...never took up shooting heroin in my arms and not planning on it either.

I think all works of the flesh are destructive to us in some form or other and all the warnings are justified for sure.

For me though - to focus on the warnings without having the foundation of walking by the spirit means which is the only thing that stops us from fulfilling the lusts of the flesh - can cause us to create a fear based works-based religion of "not doing things".

I don't think anyone is saying any works of the flesh are good things to be doing - from exhibiting malice and slandering others in the body of Christ to living a homosexual lifestyle.

I think the area of "tension" is how do we differentiate between walking by the spirit to stop these deeds of the body and trying to stop them from relying on our own fleshly efforts of man's will-power.

One produces the life of Christ - the other one can "mimic" this life but has no power to effect a real change in people.

This is why a Christian after pastoring a church for 20 years can do something that shocks people. The flesh is always going to be there until we leave this earth suit.

Trying to over-come the flesh with the flesh works for awhile - depending on our own personal will-power but in times of distress - it can rear it's ugly head again.

Then again there are those that say you go to hell for anything you do especially the sins that they don't do themselves and they seem to conveniently not think that deceit, malice and envy and things like these will not send us to hell like those "really bad sins". I believe that one is called "hypocrisy".

To me the real focus should be - how do we walk by the spirit?

well that's a good thing...seeing as Trump is going to shut down the supply...

oh I don't think we need to focus on the warnings...but there they are anyway...for sure focusing on the positive effects much better results!

I don't think anyone is saying any works of the flesh are good things to be doing - from exhibiting malice and slandering others in the body of Christ to living a homosexual lifestyle.

a years worth of arguing pretty much closes that case IMO...anyway, I never held that viewpoint...I have said over and over that no one here has ever said it is acceptable to keep on sinning...that is really not acceptable for anyone to say regarding folks on CC that have been the better part of a year refuting...anyway

I think the area of "tension" is how do we differentiate between walking by the spirit to stop these deeds of the body and trying to stop them from relying on our own fleshly efforts of man's will-power.

One produces the life of Christ - the other one can "mimic" this life but has no power to effect a real change in people.

I suspect it is all part of renewing our minds......a whole nother topic


yeah...I agree you cannot overcome the flesh with the flesh...you will just make it 'fatter' LOL!

Then again there are those that say you go to hell for anything you do especially the sins that they don't do themselves and they seem to conveniently not think that deceit, malice and envy and things like these will not send us to hell like those "really bad sins". I believe that one is called "hypocrisy".

well....probably best to ignore that...

 

[DustyRhodes]

How does sanctification work for a Christian? How do I do the will of our Father in Heaven?

read the word and prayer, prayer and more prayer in meditation

 

[DustyRhodes]

I think most people think of the term backslidden as a little more...chronic of a condition. I may sin by getting caught in worry for five or ten minutes before I review His promises and come out of it. Or I may let pride cause my feelings to get hurt and snap at my significant other until the Spirit checks me. But...I think most think of backslidden as a more chronic and hardened heart for some period of time. But that might just be the definition in my own head and no one elses...

That's the way i meant it...i believe that backsliding in Christian vernacular means years

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

LOL..nope ...never took up shooting heroin in my arms and not planning on it either.

I think all works of the flesh are destructive to us in some form or other and all the warnings are justified for sure.

For me though - to focus on the warnings without having the foundation of walking by the spirit means which is the only thing that stops us from fulfilling the lusts of the flesh - can cause us to create a fear based works-based religion of "not doing things".

I don't think anyone is saying any works of the flesh are good things to be doing - from exhibiting malice and slandering others in the body of Christ to living a homosexual lifestyle.

I think the area of "tension" is how do we differentiate between walking by the spirit to stop these deeds of the body and trying to stop them from relying on our own fleshly efforts of man's will-power.

One produces the life of Christ - the other one can "mimic" this life but has no power to effect a real change in people.

This is why a Christian after pastoring a church for 20 years can do something that shocks people. The flesh is always going to be there until we leave this earth suit.

Trying to over-come the flesh with the flesh works for awhile - depending on our own personal will-power but in times of distress - it can rear it's ugly head again.

Then again there are those that say you go to hell for anything you do especially the sins that they don't do themselves and they seem to conveniently not think that deceit, malice and envy and things like these will not send us to hell like those "really bad sins". I believe that one is called "hypocrisy".

To me the real focus should be - how do we walk by the spirit?

Your last sentence here is exactly the only thing of real importance to me any more. I don't want to sin and if we abide in Him, we don't, so my only burning goal is to abide in Him and walk by the Spirit so I don't sin. All the neverending tedious arguments and debates over every detail of everything has just all fallen away to me and I only want to know from Him more and more and more - where am I not abiding (trusting). Show me, I can agree, you can change it, and let's keep running. I only want to stop running long enough to see the foxes ruining your vineyard when you point them out, so we can chase them off so they won't destroy what belongs to you. So we'll run and run and stop only for a bit to take care of the foxes.

 

[FreeNChrist]

That's the way i meant it...i believe that backsliding in Christian vernacular means years

How many years?

 

[DustyRhodes]

oh



I don't respond to many criticisms and I appreciate you saying "I'm not picking on you". I wrote this thread for information and that there is a higher way then just reading words. So most if not all took it as an attack to their status quo. That was never my intention and never would be. In my opening post, I stated that people didn't backslide, they just haven't inherited His Kingdom yet; again that is not a criticism, just illustrating there is a higher place. Please allow me to post 2 quotes from scripture and believe me, there are many others to substantiate those 2. As well a quote from Emmett Fox, a noted theologian from the early 20th century.
2Cor.5:17..Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
Gal.2:20...
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.


When once you have accepted the Jesus Christ Message, nothing is ever the same again. All values change radically. The things that one spent time and energy in striving for are felt to be no longer worth the having, while other things that one passed by on the way with scarcely a glance, are discovered to be the only things that really matter."[FONT=arial, helvetica]Emmet Fox, The Sermon on The Mount

It is clear that once we have become a new creation, there is no going back. So called back sliding means that those who totally misunderstood the post have never been to the place where they can go back from. So they aren't backsliding, they are simply working their way to being there. The fact that you stated that everyone thought I was wrong, doesn't bother me at all. In fact it is encouragment to me to help me know how Jesus felt with the pharisees. The only time in scripture where He got testy was with them criticizing Him. So I feel that rather than try to understand what I wrote, third millenium pharsees go on the attack. To finish; I am not Jesus but at the same time I am not other than Jesus and so are you and so is everyone else who is on a Christian journey. We are all on that journey and each journey is unique.[/FONT]

 

[Stephen63]

He that begun a good work WILL complete it....ALL that the FATHER has given me I will LOSE NOTHING but will raise up the last day..........and the point remains--->HE was a SON through the whole process......

So I can no longer choose to walk away?

 

[Stephen63]

whaaaa?

you have mentioned heroin often enough to make me wonder if you did that?

then again, you appear to still be here so maybe not.........

joking aside, I do think people can destroy themselves...and go straight to he double sticks

I do believe there are scriptures in the NT that indicate that...otherwise, why all the warnings?

Nicely put..... why all the warnings if it can't be done?

 

[Stephen63]

David is a prime example of this and through the whole ordeal he never lost his salvation or his son-ship if you will.....He also had physical ailments due to his sin....and yes sought the joy of his salvation to be restored, but not salvation itself.......

Actually King Saul was the best example. He was given a new heart, which means he was chosen of God & called, yet in the end he was killed in battle because he listened to the people, got lifted up in jealousy & bitterness & disobeyed God.

 

[G00WZ]

In my view, it is not. Rather than calling it backsliding,
I believe that it has never been. It is possible to read
the words, intellectually believe the words; but not
inherit the Kingdom of God through His Spirit. Once we
have surrendered to Him, there is no going back. What
is there to go back to since His Kingdom is paradise and
if paradise penetrates the soul; thoughts of the flesh no
longer exist.

Yes you can, but its not what most people think where salvation is at stake. What happens is, the person stops focusing on God, and their identity in Christ. All the blessings, favor, agreements, promises (in life).. they all go right out the window when a person turns away from their identity and away from God. Same thing with sin.. sin is not in a persons identity so God is not going to have any blessing over it.. as matter of fact, we are to consider ourselves dead to it. God is only dealing with the living right now. If a person puts God into every aspect of their life, its almost impossible to backslide, but most people don't teach this, and the world is so very distracting.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can you backslide, Yeah, People do it all the time, They go three steps forward, ans two steps back in their sanctification.

Can you lose the adoption as sons and daughters of God? No. God said we can enter his throne room as dear children any time we want, He is our abba father, not a spirit of fear.

 

[LaurenTM]

oh



I don't respond to many criticisms and I appreciate you saying "I'm not picking on you".


oh..ok..well that was in response to stonesoffire...but I'm not picking on you either


I wrote this thread for information and that there is a higher way then just reading words. So most if not all took it as an attack to their status quo. That was never my intention and never would be. In my opening post, I stated that people didn't backslide, they just haven't inherited His Kingdom yet; again that is not a criticism, just illustrating there is a higher place. Please allow me to post 2 quotes from scripture and believe me, there are many others to substantiate those 2. As well a quote from Emmett Fox, a noted theologian from the early 20th century.


ok...but this is a discussion forum and you have probably noticed by now, people discuss until there is no breath left in the room


2Cor.5:17..Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
Gal.2:20...
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith inWhen once you have accepted the Jesus Christ Message, nothing is ever the same again. All values change radically. The things that one spent time the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

yes of course that is so...

however, as I already stated, what you quote, is notably called 'Christian Mysticism' .... and does not always reflect what is scriptural, again as both myself and a couple of others have noted...

When once you have accepted the Jesus Christ Message, nothing is ever the same again. All values change radically. The things that one spent time and energy in striving for are felt to be no longer worth the having, while other things that one passed by on the way with scarcely a glance, are discovered to be the only things that really matter ."Emmet Fox, The Sermon on The Mount

all values change at different rates...this is not a moment in time...surely you can acknowledge that? I hope?

so I looked up Emmet Fox...and found the following:

Emmet Fox (July 30, 1886 – August 13, 1951) was a New Thought spiritual leader of the early 20th century, famous for his large Divine Science church services held in New York City during the Great Depression.

and also this:

Emmet Fox (1886-1951) was a minister of Divine Science, a belief system which grew out of New Thought, a movement that exploded in the United States, and which was one of the forerunners of the New Age. New Thought claimed to be authentic Christianity while all the time reformulating Christianity and reading its own theology out of the Bible by ignoring plain meaning and context in the text

this is not representing the gospel of Jesus Christ as most understand it here


It is clear that once we have become a new creation, there is no going back. So called back sliding means that those who totally misunderstood the post have never been to the place where they can go back from. So they aren't backsliding, they are simply working their way to being there. The fact that you stated that everyone thought I was wrong, doesn't bother me at all. In fact it is encouragment to me to help me know how Jesus felt with the pharisees. The only time in scripture where He got testy was with them criticizing Him. So I feel that rather than try to understand what I wrote, third millenium pharsees go on the attack. To finish; I am not Jesus but at the same time I am not other than Jesus and so are you and so is everyone else who is on a Christian journey. We are all on that journey and each journey is unique.

well, quite honestly? I think you need to explain what you are thinking better...and a word of advice...don't call people pharisees..I'm not into the name calling myself and it is not necessary. calling another Christian a pharisee seems to be the ill perceived notion many have that because Jesus called the actual pharisees, pharisees, we are ok doing that

you did begin this op with the title 'is it possible for a Christian to backslide?' that, is what people are responding to

thank you for answering me

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Dusty and Goowz, I understand you deeply. Very deeply. I no longer get caught up in debates of OSAS/NOSAS, even though some men want to bring every single conversation to that. It has become a completely moot point to me. But it didn't used to be.

But I believe that when I walked away from God in fear for six months because of something He showed me, even though I had received His Spirit in amazement, I know that it was not a case of never was. It was a case of turning back because of fear. It was putting my hand to the plow and then turning back.

But what you describe is what I have heard some men say is...a second and deeper sanctification. After almost ten years, everything came into focus at once. It was like the blind man who Jesus gave sight to in two stages, except that there was a period of those years between the first and second stage. There is a lot of danger, real danger for us in that in-between period between the two healings of our eyes. And men want to pick all the hairs off a frog concerning all of those dangers, and other men want to deny that the dangers are even there, but I only want to find the one frog hair that someone He loves is stuck in danger on and do whatever I can to share what might help them in it. And if it is not one of the dangers I understand, I want to try to bring them to someone who DOES understand it from having lived through it and come out victorious in it. Nothing else really matters to me.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

read the word and prayer, prayer and more prayer in meditation

Just to be clear...are you saying good works is the answer for God's redemption plan for sanctification and to do the will of our Father in heaven?

 

[dcontroversal]

Actually King Saul was the best example. He was given a new heart, which means he was chosen of God & called, yet in the end he was killed in battle because he listened to the people, got lifted up in jealousy & bitterness & disobeyed God.

Actually, Saul took his own life and is not a good example....David on the other hand, is a prime example of a saved sinner that fell numerous times and yet never lost his salvation.....


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[TD]Bible > 1 Samuel > Chapter 31 > Verse 4

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[TD]◄ 1 Samuel 31:4 ►[/TD]
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[TD]Parallel Verses
New International Version
Saul said to his armor-bearer, "Draw your sword and run me through, or these uncircumcised fellows will come and run me through and abuse me." But his armor-bearer was terrified and would not do it; so Saul took his own sword and fell on it.

New Living Translation
Saul groaned to his armor bearer, "Take your sword and kill me before these pagan Philistines come to run me through and taunt and torture me." But his armor bearer was afraid and would not do it. So Saul took his own sword and fell on it.

English Standard Version
Then Saul said to his armor-bearer, “Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it, lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and mistreat me.” But his armor-bearer would not, for he feared greatly. Therefore Saul took his own sword and fell upon it.
New American Standard Bible
Then Saul said to his armor bearer, "Draw your sword and pierce me through with it, otherwise these uncircumcised will come and pierce me through and make sport of me." But his armor bearer would not, for he was greatly afraid. So Saul took his sword and fell on it.

King James Bible
Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.
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[DustyRhodes]

Just to be clear...are you saying good works is the answer for God's redemption plan for sanctification and to do the will of our Father in heaven?

works are not necessary for our salvation which means we are saved by God. Redemption, reconciliation and growing in spirituality are all the things God does for us. These are for our life on earth for us to avail ourselves of so that we can better live a life of love which is a commandment of Jesus.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

works are not necessary for our salvation which means we are saved by God. Redemption, reconciliation and growing in spirituality are all the things God does for us. These are for our life on earth for us to avail ourselves of so that we can better live a life of love which is a commandment of Jesus.

How does God do these things for us?

 

[stonesoffire]

I'm not picking on you...honestly! but your post put me in mind of David

how long was he backslidden? cheese whiz...he committed adultery and had a man killed

that's some heavy duty backsliding there...seems he thought everything was 'business as usual' until God had Nathan tap him on the shoulder

and then there was the sin of numbering Israel...and others...hmmmmm

seems David even sinned in a big way....

and the sword hung over his family for the rest of his life

there are consequences but folks do backslide and can be far more than a 'momentary lapse'

Momentary as it will not last forever in a Child of Gods life for we have promises about Gods keeping power.

And David never had the born again experience that we have now. Still God was faithful to him.

 

[LaurenTM]

Momentary as it will not last forever in a Child of Gods life for we have promises about Gods keeping power.

And David never had the born again experience that we have now. Still God was faithful to him.

well I think that was what people were trying to say about backsliding

the way the op was presented, that is how people seemed to have understood it

but not it seems to be something different according to the op...confusing

IMO, David knew God more intimately than many who call themselves Christians

and please...because I have seen one too many misunderstandings on here today...don't take that to mean you

and yes regarding God's keeping power

31What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?

33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”[SUP]j[/SUP]

37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[SUP]k[/SUP] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,

39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 8