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M

missy2014

Guest
#41
Hebrew is such a beautiful language
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
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#42
So almost every Christian who has belonged to a congregation for the past 2000 years has been on the road to destruction.
It seems from your argument that forming a church was a waste of time as far as Christ was concerned. He may as well stuck to the old covenant. Have you heard of the Holy Spirit? Do you think that he has waited all these centuries to tell people which day to worship? The truth is that Paul dealt with Judaisers in his day and now they rear their ugly heads up yet again. The Lords day is nothing to do with the Jewish Sabbath it is a different separate day of worship that celebrates the resurrection of Christ.
Could you provide scripture for the 'jewish sabbath and the 'resurrection celebration ?
Seems your disagreement is with God, Lev 23v3, where is definitely stated the 7th day Sabbath is the 'Lords. JESUS is Lord of the Sabbath making it HIS day !
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
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#43
Then why are nearly all references of the early church gathering to break bread, on the FIRST day of the week?

The apostles were Jews, and kept the Sabbath... and besides, where else are you going to find crowds of Jews (and Gentiles, apparently) to preach TO? At the temple, on the Sabbath...

But when the disciples met to fellowship and "break bread", it was on the first day of the week...
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
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#44
1. Paul was a Pharisee. A teacher of God's law. He continued to
call himself a Pharisee even after joining the church.

(Acts 23:6) Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees,
called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, descended from Pharisees.
I stand on trial because of the hope of the resurrection of the dead."


2. Paul loved God's law. It was a delight to him.

(Romans 7:22) For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,


3. Paul called God's law holy.

(Romans 7:12) So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy,
righteous and good.


4. Paul knew that breaking God's law is the very definition of sin.

(1 John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:
for sin is the transgression of the law.

5. Paul said that we don't nullify the law of God by our faith in Jesus Christ.

(Romans 3:31) Do we nullify the law by this faith? By no means!
Rather we uphold the law.

6. Paul often read from the scriptures on the sabbath (which is kept by the apostles 84
times in the book of Acts). And the only scriptures at that time was the old testament.

(Acts 17:2) As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue,
and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures.

7. Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses when he first joined the church.
(And ironically, he's still being accused today.)

(Act 21:21) They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among
the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children
or live according to our customs.


8. These accusations were shown to be false.

(Acts 21:24) Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses,
so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth
in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.


9. When Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses, he always denied this,
and said he does live according to the law.

(Acts 24:14) But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call
a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law
and written in the Prophets,


10. Paul said that those who refuse to submit to the law are "carnal minded"
and hostile to God.

(Romans 8:7-8) The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit
to God's law, nor can it do so. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


11. Paul continued to travel to Jerusalem to celebrate God's feast days
after joining the church.

(Acts 18:21) But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that
cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.


12. Paul often quoted from Moses's writings, and cited it as authority.

(1 Corinthians 9:9-10) Do I say this merely on human authority?
Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? For it is written in the Law of Moses:
“Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God
is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us,
because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.


13. Paul claimed that ALL scripture is good for instruction in righteousness,
and given through inspiration of God. He never singled out Moses' writings.

(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
correcting and training in righteousness,


14. Paul mentions that the levitical priests are still offering sacrifices to God
even after Christ's death on the cross.

(Hebrews 8:3-4) Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices,
and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer.

If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests
who offer the gifts prescribed by the law.


15. The most well known teaching in Paul's letters is the one where he says
"you are not under law but under grace".

Millions of people quote this scripture, they almost always leave out the scripture
that immediately follows it. Watch what happens when you add the context....

(Romans 6:14-16) For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under
the law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law
but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to
someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are
slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?


16. Paul told the Colossians not to let anyone judge them because they were observing
God's sabbaths and feasts because these appointed times are "a shadow of things to come".

Meaning they reveal future events, just like the passover foreshadowed Christ's
sacrifice on the cross.(Colossians 2:16-17)


17. Paul never repremanded anyone for obeying God's law. Instead, he repremanded
new gentile converts, the Galatians, who were trying to be justified by the law,
instead of faith in Jesus Christ.

(Galatians 2:16) Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith
in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by
faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

18. The Galatians, who Paul was repremanding for trying to be justified by the law,
were going back to serving other gods after they were circumcised. This is why Paul
had to explain that the works of the law can't earn your salvation.

(Galatians 4: 8-11) Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those
who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known by God
—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish
to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months
and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

- those weak and miserable forces where not Gods convocation

19. Paul understood that obedience to God's law is a natural result of salvation.
Once you become a true christian, God writes His law on your heart and mind,
and causes you to walk in them.(Hebrews 10:16)

(Hebrews 10:16) "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time,
says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

20. Paul's letters come with a warning label attached to them.

(2 Peter 3:16-17) He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these
matters.His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant
and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you
may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.





Isaiah 66:23 (KJV)
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from
one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
Paul also said that if follow the Law you need to keep all of it. The Torah is not just the ten commandments its every commandment that Moses was given. It is impossible for man to keep it that is why Christ came. He fulfilled the whole Law on our behalf. It was his only purpose for coming.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
332
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#45
Then why are nearly all references of the early church gathering to break bread, on the FIRST day of the week?

The apostles were Jews, and kept the Sabbath... and besides, where else are you going to find crowds of Jews (and Gentiles, apparently) to preach TO? At the temple, on the Sabbath...

But when the disciples met to fellowship and "break bread", it was on the first day of the week...
As you say...the disciples were mainly Jews and KNEW when it was the sabbath - the OFFICIAL HOLY day to attend synagogue/church. When they met on the first day of the week it was for FELLOWSHIP and socialising together over a meal/refreshment/breaking bread together...the common expression of that day. They were obviously eager to discuss the events of the sabbath and what had been preached - this was no religious meeting instead of sabbath. But when disagreements with the Gentiles arose they (as evident from scripture/Acts) Gentiles started their religous meetings on sundays....as if it was their choice !!! Well, they did not know the God of Israel whose Word was Law....they were used to doing as they pleased...as they still do today !
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
332
83
#46
Paul also said that if follow the Law you need to keep all of it. The Torah is not just the ten commandments its every commandment that Moses was given. It is impossible for man to keep it that is why Christ came. He fulfilled the whole Law on our behalf. It was his only purpose for coming.
When Paul preached it was years after Jesus died and ABOLISHED on the cross the commandments contained in ordinances (works) Eph 2v15. Col 2v14 and were no longer appliccable to the NT Believer. All that was/is left for us are the 10 moral, holy, spiritual Commandments given originally by God personally and not by Moses Ex 20v1; Deut 5v22....These 10 are for us the 'whole law'.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
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#47
Then why are nearly all references of the early church gathering to break bread, on the FIRST day of the week?

The apostles were Jews, and kept the Sabbath... and besides, where else are you going to find crowds of Jews (and Gentiles, apparently) to preach TO? At the temple, on the Sabbath...

But when the disciples met to fellowship and "break bread", it was on the first day of the week...


What “Break Bread” Means


Acts 20- This text does not say, as many claim today, that the disciples always
held communion every first day of the week? Not at all!

In the first place, it says nothing about anything being done every first day of the week.
It relates the events of this one particular first day of the week, only.

It is not speaking of any customs, but of the events occurring as Paul and his companions
concluded their seven-day visit in passing by this town.

Jesus had introduced the “Lord’s Supper” as part of the Passover, at the beginning of
the annual “days of unleavened bread.” No longer need they kill lambs or eat the roasted
body of Passover lambs, after Christ, our Passover, had been once slain for us.

The Passover was ordained forever (Exodus 12:24).

At His last Passover supper, Jesus substituted the wine as the emblem of His blood,
instead of the blood of the slain lamb. He substituted the unleavened bread for
the roast body of the lamb as the symbol of His body, broken for us.

The disciples continued to observe the Passover annually, now in the form of
“the Lord’s Supper” using only the bread and wine, as a memorial (1Corinthians 11:24)
of Christ’s death (1Corinthians 11:26), showing His death till He comes again.

They continued to observe the Days of Unleavened Bread (Acts 20:6).

This year they had observed the Days of Unleavened Bread and the “Communion” service
at Philippi, after which they came to Troas in five days, where they remained seven days.

After the Sabbath day had ended, [at sunset], “upon the first day of the week…
the disciples came together to break bread.”

Paul was going to walk a long ways across the point in the morning to catch up,
some of his companions allready set sail around the point by sea, a work day.
he was going to be gone for awhile, hence last minute instructions before leaving.

People have assumed this expression to mean the taking of “Communion.”
But notice! Paul preached, and continued preaching until midnight.

They had no opportunity to stop and “break bread” until then. When Paul “therefore
was come up again”—after restoring the one who had fallen down from the third balcony
“and had broken bread, and eaten” Acts 20:11

Note it! “roken bread, and eaten.” This breaking bread was not Communion
—it was simply eating a meal. This expression was commonly used of old to designate
a meal. It still is used in that sense in parts of even the United States.

Notice Luke 22:16, where Jesus was introducing the Lord’s Supper, taking it with His disciples.
He said, “I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”

Yet, the day after His resurrection, after walking with the two disciples to Emmaus,
“..as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them”
(Luke 24:30). Here Jesus “brake bread,” but it was not the Lord’s Supper,
which He said He would not take again. It was a meal—“he sat at meat.”

Notice Acts 2:46. The disciples, “continuing daily with one accord in the temple,
and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness?.…”
Here again, “breaking bread” means eating a meal. Not on the first day of the week, but daily.

Again, when Paul was shipwrecked on the voyage to Rome, the sailors had been fasting out
of fright. But “Paul besought them all to take meat, saying, This day is the fourteenth day
that ye have tarried and continued fasting, having taken nothing.

Wherefore I pray you to take some meat: for this is for your health?.… And when he had
thus spoken, he took bread, and gave thanks to God in presence of them all: and when he
had broken it, he began to eat” (Acts 27:33-35).

Here Paul broke bread to give to unconverted sailors who were hungry.

The truth is, nowhere in the Bible is the expression “breaking of bread,” or “to break bread,”
used to signify observance of “the Lord’s Supper.” In all these texts it means, simply,
eating a meal.So, when we read in Acts 20:7, 11, “the disciples came together to break bread,”

and how Paul had “broken bread, and eaten,” we know by Scripture interpretation
it referred only to eating food as a meal, not to a Communion service.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
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#48
Then why are nearly all references of the early church gathering to break bread,
on the FIRST day of the week?
there is 8 places in the new testement that have (first day of the week) phrase.
Can you show us which one changes Gods Sabbath, to now sunday worship?

post#47 explaines What “Break Bread” Means -Acts 20


lets look at another verse with first day of the week.
1 Corinthians 16 What Was This COLLECTION on first day?


1 Corinthians 16:2: “Upon the first day of the week let every one of you
lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him.…”

Often we see this text printed on the little offering envelopes in the pews of popular
churches, and we have been told that this text sets the first day of the week as the time
for taking up the church collection for the carrying on of God’s work, paying the minister, etc.

Let us begin with the first verse and really catch the true intended meaning of this verse.

“Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia,
even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store,
as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.”

This speaks of a collection—but for whom—for what? Note it! Not for the preacher
—not for evangelism—but “the collection for the saints.” The poor saints at Jerusalem
were suffering from drought and famine. They needed, not money, but food.

Notice Paul had given similar instruction to other churches.
Now observe his instruction to the Romans:

“But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it hath pleased them
of Macedonia and Achaia [where the Corinthian church was located] to make a certain
contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit,
I will come by you into Spain” (Romans 15:25-28).

Ah! Did you catch it? It was not money, but fruit that was being sealed for shipment to
the poor saints at Jerusalem! (The Greek word can also refer to grain, wine, and other
produce which can be stored a long time without spoiling.)

Now turn back to 1?Corinthians 16. Paul is speaking concerning a collection for the saints.
Upon the first day of the week each one of them is instructed to do what? Look at it!
Does it say drop a coin in the collection plate at a church service? Not at all!

It says, “[L]et every one of you lay by him in STORE.” Note it! Lay by! Store up!
Store up by himself—at home! Not lay by at the church house—lay by him—at home.

Now why? “[T]hat there be no gatherings when I come.” Men gather fruit out of the orchard
—they gather vegetables out of the ground, to be stored up. But putting coins in a collection
plate at church, or handing in your tithe envelope could not be called a gathering,
but an offering or collection.

Notice further: “And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters,
them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. And if it be meet that I go also,
they [more than one] shall go with me” (verses 3-4).

Apparently it was going to require several men to carry this collection, gathered and
stored up, to Jerusalem. If it were tithe or offering for the minister or the spread of
the gospel, Paul could have carried the money alone.


the last and final text in the Bible where we find “the first day of the week”
mentioned, it is a workday—a day for gathering fruit and food out of the orchards
and the fields and gardens, and storing it up. It was to be the first labor of the week,
hence the first day of the week, as soon as the Sabbath was past!
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,877
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Germany
#49
Since when is breaking a loaf of bread apart considered working lol!!! Its not a titanium brick lol... good grief
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#50
When Paul preached it was years after Jesus died and ABOLISHED on the cross the commandments contained in ordinances (works) Eph 2v15. Col 2v14 and were no longer appliccable to the NT Believer. All that was/is left for us are the 10 moral, holy, spiritual Commandments given originally by God personally and not by Moses Ex 20v1; Deut 5v22....These 10 are for us the 'whole law'.
As far as I can see you are trying to split hairs by creating a false division between the ten commandments which are a core summary and the rest of the law. I assume you observe Jewish festivals as many 'Messianic' Jews do. Where are they in the ten commandments? You practice Buffet Judaism a creeping form of the real thing.

Most people on site worship on Sunday. According to you we are all on the road to destruction. So why are you here?
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,040
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#51
Since when is breaking a loaf of bread apart considered working lol!!! Its not a titanium brick lol... good grief
Depends on how stale it is. I often use a chain saw for my sandwich its messy but Macho he he
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,877
1,949
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Germany
#52
hey we sacrefice it all for the perfect sandwich. it does work better with a electric wood saw.. just less messy :D


Depends on how stale it is. I often use a chain saw for my sandwich its messy but Macho he he
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
332
83
#53
As far as I can see you are trying to split hairs by creating a false division between the ten commandments which are a core summary and the rest of the law. I assume you observe Jewish festivals as many 'Messianic' Jews do. Where are they in the ten commandments? You practice Buffet Judaism a creeping form of the real thing.

Most people on site worship on Sunday. According to you we are all on the road to destruction. So why are you here?
How come you don't provide scriptures for your opinions ?
I see you don't agree with those I have given ---your problem.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#54
As you say...the disciples were mainly Jews and KNEW when it was the sabbath - the OFFICIAL HOLY day to attend synagogue/church. When they met on the first day of the week it was for FELLOWSHIP and socialising together over a meal/refreshment/breaking bread together...the common expression of that day. They were obviously eager to discuss the events of the sabbath and what had been preached - this was no religious meeting instead of sabbath. But when disagreements with the Gentiles arose they (as evident from scripture/Acts) Gentiles started their religous meetings on sundays....as if it was their choice !!! Well, they did not know the God of Israel whose Word was Law....they were used to doing as they pleased...as they still do today !
It’s a ceremonial law used in ceremonies and not a moral law that governs sin.

It is why we are commanded (not a mere suggestion) to judge no man in respect to shadows .(shadow worshipers or Judaizers)

The word Sabbath itself is not a time sensitive word. It means rest with no other meaning attached. It does not mean day or week, that is when they can be performed .

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col 2:16 KJ

Sabbath(singular) days, improper translation

16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, Young’s literal

Sabbaths (plural) proper translation
17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ;

The things to come is our eternal rest.

For some reason most likely influenced by the Judaizers the noun Sabbath and the use of singular and plural have been changed.

Rather than at the end of the Sabbaths (plural) the Saturday, it began to dawn to towards the new era of Sabbaths (plural) Sunday , the first day when He said let there be light in respect to the new creation, as children of light..

Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. King James

28 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre, Youngs literal

Why did the King James paraphrasers change the meaning would be the question?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
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#55
How come you don't provide scriptures for your opinions ?
I see you don't agree with those I have given ---your problem.
2 Corinthians 3:7-11
[FONT=&quot]7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


That is speaking directly of your false assertion that the Ministration of Death written on stone was not abolished with the rest of the statutes and ordinances that the Lord Jesus did away with on the Cross.

Galatians 3:2-3
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.[/FONT]
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
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#56
Hebrews 7:11-19
[FONT=&quot]11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.[/FONT]
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#57
A warning-about entering into His rest.

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering
into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

-how did they came short?

Heb 4:2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us,
even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them,
because it was not united by (faith) with them that heard.

-they did not have faith.

Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest;even as
he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest:
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise,
And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;

-notice entering into that rest is connected with the seventh day.

Heb 4:5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto,
and they to whom the good tidings were before preached
failed to enter in because of disobedience,

-God said they will not enter His rest, but they failed because of [disobedience].
about the 7th day Sabbath command.

Heb 4:7 he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David
so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before),
To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.

Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken
afterward of another day.

-David said "today" long after Joshua took them into the promised land
so thus proving that there is a rest still to be entered.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works,
as God did from his. Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest,

that no man fall after the same example of [disobedience].

-A rest remains, but notice the issue is do not disobey.

Heb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holy of holies;
Heb 9:4 having a golden altar of incense, and the ark of the covenant overlaid
round about with gold, wherein was a golden pot holding the manna,
and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

-the pot of manna was put in the most Holy

Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which Jehovah thy God hath led thee
these forty years in the wilderness, that he might humble thee, to prove thee, to know
what was in thy heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or not.
Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna,
which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know

that man doth not live by bread only, but by everything that proceedeth
out of the mouth of Jehovah doth man live.

-God tested them for 40 years to humble them to see what was in their hearts.
that they should live by every word (10 commandments spoken by Gods own mouth)
not by bread alone.

-what did the bread teach?

Exo 16:4 Then said Jehovah unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you;
and the people shall go out and gather a day's portion every day, that I may prove them,
whether they will walk in my law, or not.

Exo 16:5 And it shall come to pass on the sixth day, that they shall prepare that which
they bring in, and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

-and how long did God prove them with the manna?

Exo 16:32 And Moses said, This is the thing which Jehovah hath commanded, Let
an omerful of it be kept throughout your generations, that they may see the bread
wherewith I fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt.

Exo 16:33 And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a pot, and put an omerful of manna therein,
and lay it up before Jehovah, to be kept throughout your generations.

As Jehovah commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept.
And the children of Israel did eat the manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited;
they did eat the manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan.

-40 years. this is the issue being spoken of in Hebrews:

Heb 3:16 For who, when they heard, did provoke? nay, did not all they
that came out of Egypt by Moses?

Heb 3:17 And with whom was he displeased forty years?
was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest,
but to them that were disobedient?
Heb 3:19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:4-10 "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise,
And God did rest the seventh day from all his works [Gen. 2:2-3].

And in this [place again],

If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth
that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in
because of unbelief [sound familiar?]: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David,
To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest [see below] to the people of God. For he that is entered
into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."

rest (G4520) sabbatismos
1. a keeping sabbath
2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by
the true worshippers of God and true Christians
from a derivative of G4521

(G4521) sabbaton
1. the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites
were required to abstain from all work
1a. the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
1b. a single sabbath, sabbath day
2. seven days, a week
of Hebrew origin H7676

(H7676) shabba^th
1. Sabbath
1a. sabbath
1b. day of atonement
1c. sabbath year
1d. week
1e. produce (in sabbath year)
intensive from H7673

(7673) sha^bath
1. to cease, desist, rest
1a. (Qal)
1a-1. to cease
1a-2. to rest, desist (from labour)
1b. (Niphal) to cease
1c. (Hiphil)
1c-1. to cause to cease, put an end to
1c-2. to exterminate, destroy
1c-3. to cause to desist from
1c-4. to remove
1c-5. to cause to fail
2. (Qal) to keep or observe the sabbath
a primitive root


Genesis 2:2-3 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made;
and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God
blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from
all his work which God created and made."

The LORD created the seventh day (Sabbath), blessed and sanctified it
"because that in it he had rested from all his work".

-once God has blessed something, can it be undone?

Numbers 23:19-20 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,
that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall
he not make it good? Behold, I have received commandment to bless:

and he hath blessed; and [I cannot reverse it]."

-Here Balaam tells Balak that the LORD gave him a commandment to bless Israel.
He told Balak that what the LORD has blessed, he cannot reverse it.
Do we think we can reverse the blessing the LORD has placed on something?

1 Chronicles 17:26-27 "And now, LORD, thou art God, and hast promised this goodness
unto thy servant: Now therefore let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may
be before thee for ever: for thou blessest, O LORD, and it shall be blessed for ever."
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#58
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before

-some say the law is done away

for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.


-but this is not profitable
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#59
A warning-about entering into His rest.

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering
into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

-how did they came short?

Heb 4:2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us,
even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them,
because it was not united by (faith) with them that heard.

-they did not have faith.

Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest;even as
he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest:
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise,
And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;

-notice entering into that rest is connected with the seventh day.

Heb 4:5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto,
and they to whom the good tidings were before preached
failed to enter in because of disobedience,

-God said they will not enter His rest, but they failed because of [disobedience].
about the 7th day Sabbath command.

Heb 4:7 he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David
so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before),
To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.

Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken
afterward of another day.

-David said "today" long after Joshua took them into the promised land
so thus proving that there is a rest still to be entered.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works,
as God did from his. Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest,

that no man fall after the same example of [disobedience].

-A rest remains, but notice the issue is do not disobey.

Heb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holy of holies;
Heb 9:4 having a golden altar of incense, and the ark of the covenant overlaid
round about with gold, wherein was a golden pot holding the manna,
and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

-the pot of manna was put in the most Holy

Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which Jehovah thy God hath led thee
these forty years in the wilderness, that he might humble thee, to prove thee, to know
what was in thy heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or not.
Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna,
which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know

that man doth not live by bread only, but by everything that proceedeth
out of the mouth of Jehovah doth man live.

-God tested them for 40 years to humble them to see what was in their hearts.
that they should live by every word (10 commandments spoken by Gods own mouth)
not by bread alone.

-what did the bread teach?

Exo 16:4 Then said Jehovah unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you;
and the people shall go out and gather a day's portion every day, that I may prove them,
whether they will walk in my law, or not.

Exo 16:5 And it shall come to pass on the sixth day, that they shall prepare that which
they bring in, and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

-and how long did God prove them with the manna?

Exo 16:32 And Moses said, This is the thing which Jehovah hath commanded, Let
an omerful of it be kept throughout your generations, that they may see the bread
wherewith I fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt.

Exo 16:33 And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a pot, and put an omerful of manna therein,
and lay it up before Jehovah, to be kept throughout your generations.

As Jehovah commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept.
And the children of Israel did eat the manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited;
they did eat the manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan.

-40 years. this is the issue being spoken of in Hebrews:

Heb 3:16 For who, when they heard, did provoke? nay, did not all they
that came out of Egypt by Moses?

Heb 3:17 And with whom was he displeased forty years?
was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest,
but to them that were disobedient?
Heb 3:19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:4-10 "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise,
And God did rest the seventh day from all his works [Gen. 2:2-3].

And in this [place again],

If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth
that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in
because of unbelief [sound familiar?]: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David,
To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest [see below] to the people of God. For he that is entered
into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."

rest (G4520) sabbatismos
1. a keeping sabbath
2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by
the true worshippers of God and true Christians
from a derivative of G4521

(G4521) sabbaton
1. the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites
were required to abstain from all work
1a. the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
1b. a single sabbath, sabbath day
2. seven days, a week
of Hebrew origin H7676

(H7676) shabba^th
1. Sabbath
1a. sabbath
1b. day of atonement
1c. sabbath year
1d. week
1e. produce (in sabbath year)
intensive from H7673

(7673) sha^bath
1. to cease, desist, rest
1a. (Qal)
1a-1. to cease
1a-2. to rest, desist (from labour)
1b. (Niphal) to cease
1c. (Hiphil)
1c-1. to cause to cease, put an end to
1c-2. to exterminate, destroy
1c-3. to cause to desist from
1c-4. to remove
1c-5. to cause to fail
2. (Qal) to keep or observe the sabbath
a primitive root


Genesis 2:2-3 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made;
and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God
blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from
all his work which God created and made."

The LORD created the seventh day (Sabbath), blessed and sanctified it
"because that in it he had rested from all his work".

-once God has blessed something, can it be undone?

Numbers 23:19-20 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,
that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall
he not make it good? Behold, I have received commandment to bless:

and he hath blessed; and [I cannot reverse it]."

-Here Balaam tells Balak that the LORD gave him a commandment to bless Israel.
He told Balak that what the LORD has blessed, he cannot reverse it.
Do we think we can reverse the blessing the LORD has placed on something?

1 Chronicles 17:26-27 "And now, LORD, thou art God, and hast promised this goodness
unto thy servant: Now therefore let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may
be before thee for ever: for thou blessest, O LORD, and it shall be blessed for ever."
They failed to enter in because of un-belief. Lack of faith.

Galatians 3:11-12
[FONT=&quot]11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.[/FONT]
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#60
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before

-some say the law is done away

for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.


-but this is not profitable
Not if you haven't been to Christ yet.

If you have been to Christ then it is counter-productive. Un-profitable. Weak.