The Old Covenant

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 13, 2016
744
6
0
#1
Luke 21 :22
For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

When Jesus spoke about the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, he made it quite clear that this was the fulfilment of all Old Testament prophecy and Law. Once Jerusalem was destroyed, then that was it. The Old Covenant was over, and the Law as an agreement between God and his people had expired.

Paul corroborates this in Hebrews, written circa 60AD, where he tells us that the Old Covenant has waxed old and is decayed, and is on the point of vanishing.

A lot of those whom I would call 'reprobate' Christians, will argue long and hard, either on the basis of misapplication of Scripture, or because they are pickled in the vinegar of Zionism, that the state of Israel is God's bit on the side, and much as he loves the Church, the real Israel, he just really can't get over his old flame, and will tolerate any behaviour from her, just as long as he can hold her in his arms again.

This is really nonsense. God is not a man. He is a God of justice. He will always accept anybody who renounces sin and comes to him through Christ, but he has no ongoing thing for the land of Israel or the earthly City of Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 19 makes this plain:

19 Thus saith the Lord, Go and get a potter's earthen bottle, and take of the ancients of the people, and of the ancients of the priests;
2 And go forth unto the valley of the son of Hinnom, which is by the entry of the east gate, and proclaim there the words that I shall tell thee,
3 And say, Hear ye the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle.
4 Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents;
5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:
6 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.
7 And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place; and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcases will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.
8 And I will make this city desolate, and an hissing; every one that passeth thereby shall be astonished and hiss because of all the plagues thereof.
9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend in the siege and straitness, wherewith their enemies, and they that seek their lives, shall straiten them.
10 Then shalt thou break the bottle in the sight of the men that go with thee,
11 And shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaketh a potter's vessel,that cannot be made whole again: and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place to bury.
12 Thus will I do unto this place, saith the Lord, and to the inhabitants thereof, and even make this city as Tophet:
13 And the houses of Jerusalem, and the houses of the kings of Judah, shall be defiled as the place of Tophet, because of all the houses upon whose roofs they have burned incense unto all the host of heaven, and have poured out drink offerings unto other gods.
14 Then came Jeremiah from Tophet, whither the Lord had sent him to prophesy; and he stood in the court of the Lord's house; and said to all the people,
15 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words.


Jerusalem + Judah (the Jews) is a clay jar that has been smashed into millions of pieces (AD 70) and it cannot be reconstructed, nor can its people.

And this is so. The genealogical records of the Jews perished in AD 70 with the temple, so nobody today can show they are a bloodline Jew. Such a thing no longer exists. Only followers of the various strands of Pharisaism exist.

 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,417
3,468
113
#2
I am not a Zionist but the Book of Revelations written after Hebrews states the following..

Revelation 7 KJV
7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#3
I am not a Zionist but the Book of Revelations written after Hebrews states the following..

Revelation 7 KJV
7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
Or those verses aren't in the mythical last 7 years of history... God did seal and protected the REMNANT of Jews that existed in Israel just prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. You've got to remember that most of Christianity today sees the book of Revelation through the lens of Scoffield and Darby.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#4
Just not going to stop proselytizing, smh. This is becoming the new hyper grace. Doesn't matter what the Bible says. Bless the Jews or be cursed,no God didn't say that. Jesus wasn't a Jew. The Jews aren't the apple of His eye. Eternal and everlasting means temporary. The Jews are Christkillers and can never be forgiven. And the Holocaust never happened, Jews just tattooed themselves.:rolleyes: If it wasn't so sad and against God and His Word it would be hilarious. Any nation that has come against the Jews has found out God protects His chosen ones.Those that propagate this false doctrine and conspiracy theory nonsense will find out the hard way that they are on the wrong side.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#5
Just not going to stop proselytizing, smh. This is becoming the new hyper grace. Doesn't matter what the Bible says. Bless the Jews or be cursed,no God didn't say that. Jesus wasn't a Jew. The Jews aren't the apple of His eye. Eternal and everlasting means temporary. The Jews are Christkillers and can never be forgiven. And the Holocaust never happened, Jews just tattooed themselves.:rolleyes: If it wasn't so sad and against God and His Word it would be hilarious. Any nation that has come against the Jews has found out God protects His chosen ones.Those that propagate this false doctrine and conspiracy theory nonsense will find out the hard way that they are on the wrong side.
In stead of a rant against people who disagree with you, I would be interested in your take on the verses Spurge posted especially the verse below. Is this verse wrong, is it not talking about the Jews or Jerusalem? How does "that cannot be made whole again" not really mean what it says? Please explain just explain the verse in your own words and don't post 30 out of context verses.... just explain what verse 11 means.

11 And shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaketh a potter's vessel,that cannot be made whole again: and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place to bury.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#6
The old covenant was over the MOMENT jesus said "it is finished" Not almost 4 decades later. That is why the veil which separated the inner sanctuary where the presence of God should have been, and the outer sanctuary was torn in two. Jesus fulfilled the law. and the purpose for the day of atonement sacrifice was no more..

to say it was finished 4 decades late.. wow.. just wow.

AD 70 is in agreement with Lev 26, It proves that even AFTER the law was done away with, that leviticus 26 and the requirements for Israel to live in her land were still in effect.

it also brings Dan 9 in partial filfilment (we still have the war deslations which woudl end in a flood. the 7 year covenant, and the abomination of desolation to be completed yet)

not to mention alot of other OT prophesies concerning the same time period. which would ALL end in the truth of Christ.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#7
In stead of a rant against people who disagree with you, I would be interested in your take on the verses Spurge posted especially the verse below. Is this verse wrong, is it not talking about the Jews or Jerusalem? How does "that cannot be made whole again" not really mean what it says? Please explain just explain the verse in your own words and don't post 30 out of context verses.... just explain what verse 11 means.

11 And shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaketh a potter's vessel,that cannot be made whole again: and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place to bury.
Found where? And lets be fair here,plenty of ranting has been going on around this subject.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#8
The old covenant was over the MOMENT jesus said "it is finished" Not almost 4 decades later. That is why the veil which separated the inner sanctuary where the presence of God should have been, and the outer sanctuary was torn in two. Jesus fulfilled the law. and the purpose for the day of atonement sacrifice was no more..

to say it was finished 4 decades late.. wow.. just wow.

AD 70 is in agreement with Lev 26, It proves that even AFTER the law was done away with, that leviticus 26 and the requirements for Israel to live in her land were still in effect.

it also brings Dan 9 in partial filfilment (we still have the war deslations which woudl end in a flood. the 7 year covenant, and the abomination of desolation to be completed yet)

not to mention alot of other OT prophesies concerning the same time period. which would ALL end in the truth of Christ.
Isn't Leviticus 26 the old covenant?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#9
The old covenant was over the MOMENT jesus said "it is finished" Not almost 4 decades later. That is why the veil which separated the inner sanctuary where the presence of God should have been, and the outer sanctuary was torn in two. Jesus fulfilled the law. and the purpose for the day of atonement sacrifice was no more..

to say it was finished 4 decades late.. wow.. just wow.

AD 70 is in agreement with Lev 26, It proves that even AFTER the law was done away with, that leviticus 26 and the requirements for Israel to live in her land were still in effect.

it also brings Dan 9 in partial filfilment (we still have the war deslations which woudl end in a flood. the 7 year covenant, and the abomination of desolation to be completed yet)

not to mention alot of other OT prophesies concerning the same time period. which would ALL end in the truth of Christ.

"Shall never be uprooted again" it cannot refer to 70ad. Its simple.

 
Dec 13, 2016
744
6
0
#10
It was until Scofie and EG realigned some key scriptures...cough cough
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#11
Found where? And lets be fair here,plenty of ranting has been going on around this subject.
All of us need to stop the rants and negative comments. I will do that. Now explain what the verse means
 
Dec 13, 2016
744
6
0
#12
All of us need to stop the rants and negative comments. I will do that. Now explain what the verse means
It won't happen KJ.

To me and you this is just a discussion, but they have a lot of skin in the game. They fight like cornered mammals.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#13
It was until Scofie and EG realigned some key scriptures...cough cough
yeah whatever.. Your the one realiging scripture. and making Gods prophesy not literal..

That makes god no more a prophet that Nostradamus.. we can twist his words and make them all come true also..
 
Dec 13, 2016
744
6
0
#14
Ok, for those with barriers to understanding.

Is Leviticus 26 part of the Law or part of the New Covenant?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#15
All of us need to stop the rants and negative comments. I will do that. Now explain what the verse means
It will remain to be seen if the negative comments stop.We'll see. "Please explain" the verse is what you meant I think.Now I ask again,where is it found?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#16
Ok, for those with barriers to understanding.

Is Leviticus 26 part of the Law or part of the New Covenant?

KJV perhaps you need to remind your friend to stop her digs and insults if you expect others to do so?
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#17
It will remain to be seen if the negative comments stop.We'll see. "Please explain" the verse is what you meant I think.Now I ask again,where is it found?
Jeremiah 19:11 KJV
And shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaketh a potter's vessel, that cannot be made whole again: and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place to bury.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#18
Isn't Leviticus 26 the old covenant?
lev 26:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]‘If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments, and perform them,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]then I will give you rain in its season, the land shall yield its produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing;
you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I will give peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and none will make you afraid;
I will rid the land of evil beasts,
and the sword will not go through your land.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight;
your enemies shall fall by the sword before you.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]‘For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I will set My tabernacle among you, and My soul shall not abhor you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I will walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that you should not be their slaves;
I have broken the bands of your yoke and made you walk upright.

Mind telling me what this has to do with the OLD COVENANT and SALVATION of ONE PERSON?

The covenant God spoke of in verse 9 is the abrahamic covenant, It could not be the mosaic, Because the mosaic covenant never promised them any land..



[SUP]44 [/SUP]Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;

for I am the Lord their God.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God:

I am the Lord.’”



1. are they not in the land of their enemies today?
2. Did God not promise he would ALWAYS keep a remnant (so as not to utterly destroy them)
3. Again, reference to the Abrahamic covenant, When god promised in 400 years to take Abrahams descendents, who would be slaves and take them into their land.


Gen 15: [SUP]13 [/SUP]Then He said to Abram: “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions
 
Dec 13, 2016
744
6
0
#20
What should I say KG? There comes a point where if you have to stop to define the simplest and most self-evident things, then either somebody is being deliberately stupid and retrogressive, or they really are a bit stupid. I don't care I am just calling it for what it is .

Leviticus 26
46 These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the Lord made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

If you cannot grasp this kind of thing, I don't think you can join the conversation.

Lev 26 = Mosaic Law.

Go and ask 10,000 Rabbis. Find me one who disputes this. Just 1 - please.