Stonesoffire: Genesis study

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Nov 12, 2015
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#1
Stonesoffire, here is the study I promised to post for you. I know you have seen the spirit of the word - you know the word is spirit because God is Spirit - and I know you pursue the spirit of the words.

It is such a new and different way of understanding that...we flash in and out of it. This is the flesh, that has a default to always go back to the literal, struggling against the Spirit and the spirit of the words. It's not the literal sense (or the letter of the word) that avails us - it is the spirit of the word that avails us.

If ever there was a place where the spirit of the word matters, it is in the beginning of the book of Genesis. The very fact that the light and darkness first spoken of are not literal is seen by them being talked about many days before the sun and moon are created. In fact, the sun and the moon are pictures or copies of the spiritual reality, and we know this because God created it all to show His glory. John testifies to the beginning being the spirit of the matter in the beginning of his book. It's something else to look up if you would like. :)

I know this will not be well received by most and they will insist on the letter rather than the spirit, but we will just ignore that and study this. :)

When I looked up the definitions, I did not necessarily include the complete list because some definitions have to be discarded because they are literal and we are being shown spirit here. Also, they had to fit within the context of the spiritual understanding we are seeking here. You can do the study yourself with a concordance, and the Spirits help. In fact, you should. Because seeing the roots helps to a rounder understanding and I am not sure I have included all of the roots here. As I went along, and as I began to understand by the Spirits help, I chose the words that fit the spiritual context He was showing me. So it will help to look it up yourself and meditate on it.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Keep in mind that this is our beginning, our story, but not the beginning of God (who has no beginning) and not the beginning of angels, who already existed with God.

Beginning is only listed in the appendix, because it is assumed that we all know what beginning means. I checked on beginnings to see if there was anything that might be helpful.

Beginnings - 7218- from a root word that means: to shake, as in the head, as in: the part that turns away.

Created - 1254 - To absolutely create; qualified to cut down a wood (a tree).

This is the spiritual sense I received: In the shaking of the part that turned away (satan and those who followed him are the part that turned away), God cut down a tree. (A lofty and proud tree - satan). He cast from His Presence due to rebellion and this created the place where His Presence was, and the other place, where His presence was not. (Heaven and earth).

It may seem I have jumped the gun at this above point, but you will see now that I have not because of the awfulness of this other place. :)

And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

without form
-8414 - To lie waste, a desolation, a worthless thing, confusion, empty place, waste, nothing, wilderness.

void - 922 - empty, vacuity, an undistinguishable ruin, emptiness, void.

This is the spiritual sense I received: And the earth (the place where He was not), was a desolate, worthless thing of confusion. It was an undistinguishable ruin.


When jonteel asked us what was a place God did not create, most did not understand, but a few had this answer: darkness. Yes, there is a verse where God says, I create the darkness. This creation in the very beginning of Genesis is a negative creation, caused by casting something or someone from His presence. It is not the positive creation of: let there be...
Those people were able to, at least even just dimly, see that hell will also be a negative creation. So it can be said that He created darkness, but in another sense, it can be said He did not. You have to see it spiritually to understand.

If ever there was a place that could be called the outer darkness, this in the beginning of Genesis was that outer darkness. No light, so no three dimensionalness, thus no bodies. It is light that makes three dimensionalness by its' effects on things. Light and shadow create the three dimensionalism. Without them there is the undistinguishableness of "void."

And we know it is awful also because the demons are terrified to be cast there again. They begged to be in the body of a pig before being cast there. They like a human body better but will settle for anything before that place.

And darkness was upon the face of the deep.

darkness - 2822 - misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness.

face - 6440 - The face (as the part that turns) against anger + battle.

deep - 8415 - an abyss, deep place.

This is the spiritual sense I received: And misery and wickedness and death were upon the part that turned away( in anger and battle against God) and were in the abyss.

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

face - 6440 again.
waters - 4325 - water, by euphemism - urine, semen, piss, wasting.

The spiritual sense: And the Spirit of God moved upon the part that turned away - the waste products He calls them.

Here is where it begins to turn around and positive creations behave to take a break so am posting this in case I get kicked offline while I'm gone. Be back very soon. :)
 
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Dec 2, 2016
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#2
The bible IS a spiritual book and you have brought forth some ideas, the problem with what you are doing as I see it, is that it is almost impossible to prove anything in the bible that is not literally in the bible. For example, you could attach a spiritual meaning to what I have just written and by so doing you could arrive at a much different message then the one I have written. Also, the person who decides the meaning is you, since we humans are prone to mistakes and blunders that places the whole idea on unstable ground. Some of your thoughts may very well be correct, however if I cannot prove it literally then I stay away from it...better safe then sorry.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#3
What actually happened:

God created the universe. The planet was in the stage of forming yet, when the Genesis begins its description.

The current condition was a very thick atmosphere full of dust and world oceans covering all the surface of the Earth.

The dry land (continents) was not yet visible and furnished. Light could not penetrate the thick atmosphere.

This is Genesis 1:2. This is also what the science says. Too simple and without deep secrets? Sorry. :)

11:00 is Genesis 1:2
[video=youtube;57merteLsBc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57merteLsBc[/video]
 
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Nov 12, 2015
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#4
So what I meant to say in that last paragraph was: here is where it begins to turn around and positive creations (let there be...) begins. I was typing and talking to my dog, telling him to behave because he was barking at the doorbell, that is why the word behave got in there! HAHA!

Next: And God said let there be light and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good, and God divided the light from the darkness.

Light - 216 - lumination or luminary (in every sense), happiness, bright, clear, morning.
Darkness - again, 2822.

216 is from 215 - luminous, glorious, be enkindled.

The spiritual sense: And God said, let there be glorious, happiness, clear, and there was glorious. And He saw that the glorious was good and He separated it from the misery and wickedness (2822 again).

There have been two separations so far. The one in the first sentence of Genesis, which was a separation from Him and to somewhere where He was not, and there is the separation here of light from darkness. In both separations, it isn't distinctly said and He saw it was good, because He doesn't see separation as good. There is another separation coming up and He also does not say it is good.

And He called the light day and He called the darkness night.

day - 3117 - always, continually, everlasting, a whole age or period of time.
night - 3915 - A twist away of the light. From 3883 - to fold back, a winding stair, a spiral step.

The spiritual sense: And He called the glorious: everlasting, always. And He called the misery and wickedness a twist away from the glorious, a spiraling away from the light (the glorious).

So, I have condensed it because I didn't want to confuse the basics of this with other connections He gave me that are in my notes. That's it. :)
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#5
The bible IS a spiritual book and you have brought forth some ideas, the problem with what you are doing as I see it, is that it is almost impossible to prove anything in the bible that is not literally in the bible. For example, you could attach a spiritual meaning to what I have just written and by so doing you could arrive at a much different message then the one I have written. Also, the person who decides the meaning is you, since we humans are prone to mistakes and blunders that places the whole idea on unstable ground. Some of your thoughts may very well be correct, however if I cannot prove it literally then I stay away from it...better safe then sorry.
Well...if this light and darkness is not a spiritual rather than literal thing, why do you think the light and dark are spoken of days BEFORE the sun and moon were created? What do YOU make of it?

(Praying for you brother. Haven't stopped.)
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#6
Stonesoffire, here is the study I promised to post for you. I know you have seen the spirit of the word - you know the word is spirit because God is Spirit - and I know you pursue the spirit of the words.

It is such a new and different way of understanding that...we flash in and out of it. This is the flesh, that has a default to always go back to the literal, struggling against the Spirit and the spirit of the words. It's not the literal sense (or the letter of the word) that avails us - it is the spirit of the word that avails us.

If ever there was a place where the spirit of the word matters, it is in the beginning of the book of Genesis. The very fact that the light and darkness first spoken of are not literal is seen by them being talked about many days before the sun and moon are created. In fact, the sun and the moon are pictures or copies of the spiritual reality, and we know this because God created it all to show His glory. John testifies to the beginning being the spirit of the matter in the beginning of his book. It's something else to look up if you would like. :)

I know this will not be well received by most and they will insist on the letter rather than the spirit, but we will just ignore that and study this. :)

When I looked up the definitions, I did not necessarily include the complete list because some definitions have to be discarded because they are literal and we are being shown spirit here. Also, they had to fit within the context of the spiritual understanding we are seeking here. You can do the study yourself with a concordance, and the Spirits help. In fact, you should. Because seeing the roots helps to a rounder understanding and I am not sure I have included all of the roots here. As I went along, and as I began to understand by the Spirits help, I chose the words that fit the spiritual context He was showing me. So it will help to look it up yourself and meditate on it.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Keep in mind that this is our beginning, our story, but not the beginning of God (who has no beginning) and not the beginning of angels, who already existed with God.

Beginning is only listed in the appendix, because it is assumed that we all know what beginning means. I checked on beginnings to see if there was anything that might be helpful.

Beginnings - 7218- from a root word that means: to shake, as in the head, as in: the part that turns away.

Created - 1254 - To absolutely create; qualified to cut down a wood (a tree).

This is the spiritual sense I received: In the shaking of the part that turned away (satan and those who followed him are the part that turned away), God cut down a tree. (A lofty and proud tree - satan). He cast from His Presence due to rebellion and this created the place where His Presence was, and the other place, where His presence was not. (Heaven and earth).

It may seem I have jumped the gun at this above point, but you will see now that I have not because of the awfulness of this other place. :)

And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

without form
-8414 - To lie waste, a desolation, a worthless thing, confusion, empty place, waste, nothing, wilderness.

void - 922 - empty, vacuity, an undistinguishable ruin, emptiness, void.

This is the spiritual sense I received: And the earth (the place where He was not), was a desolate, worthless thing of confusion. It was an undistinguishable ruin.


When jonteel asked us what was a place God did not create, most did not understand, but a few had this answer: darkness. Yes, there is a verse where God says, I create the darkness. This creation in the very beginning of Genesis is a negative creation, caused by casting something or someone from His presence. It is not the positive creation of: let there be...
Those people were able to, at least even just dimly, see that hell will also be a negative creation. So it can be said that He created darkness, but in another sense, it can be said He did not. You have to see it spiritually to understand.

If ever there was a place that could be called the outer darkness, this in the beginning of Genesis was that outer darkness. No light, so no three dimensionalness, thus no bodies. It is light that makes three dimensionalness by its' effects on things. Light and shadow create the three dimensionalism. Without them there is the undistinguishableness of "void."

And we know it is awful also because the demons are terrified to be cast there again. They begged to be in the body of a pig before being cast there. They like a human body better but will settle for anything before that place.

And darkness was upon the face of the deep.

darkness - 2822 - misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness.

face - 6440 - The face (as the part that turns) against anger + battle.

deep - 8415 - an abyss, deep place.

This is the spiritual sense I received: And misery and wickedness and death were upon the part that turned away( in anger and battle against God) and were in the abyss.

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

face - 6440 again.
waters - 4325 - water, by euphemism - urine, semen, piss, wasting.

The spiritual sense: And the Spirit of God moved upon the part that turned away - the waste products He calls them.

Here is where it begins to turn around and positive creations behave to take a break so am posting this in case I get kicked offline while I'm gone. Be back very soon. :)
Only one word I can utter thus far........ WOW !!! (You might want to talk with Angelia about how the understandings of Hebrew words are derived.)
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#7
Only one word I can utter thus far........ WOW !!! (You might want to talk with Angelia about how the understandings of Hebrew words are derived.)
Oh...no.
I think angela would faint dead away if she saw the way I study. It's not at all scholarly. I just go by what the Spirit shows me mostly, and that's not scholarly and would make scholars pull their hair out...and she's very busy and doesn't have time to explain something like that to me anyway. But I could maybe look into it online...
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#8
Hi stunned...I've had a busy day so will be looking at this studywise in the morning. The first thing that struck me was the Word beginning. That would be Roshe I think. I seem to remember it means shake the head. Then I thought of the Jewish feast and am wondering what the connection there would be.

Anyway, will get back to this tomorrow. Thank you so much for posting. I've never done a study with anyone else like this so am excited.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#9
Willie

Have you tried looking at this with a concordance yourself to see if you see the same?
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#10
Oh wow...I was getting ready for bed and tossing all the books and stuff out of my bed to sleep HAHA! and on the back of the page of study notes were some of the ROOT words that I didn't include. They make it even more understandable. :mad: Too late. But you can look them up yourself. Sorry.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#11
Willie

Have you tried looking at this with a concordance yourself to see if you see the same?
No thanks. I learned 40 or 50 years ago just how screwed-up you can get with that kind of limited study. LOL
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#12
No thanks. I learned 40 or 50 years ago just how screwed-up you can get with that kind of limited study. LOL
Then I'll ask you the same question I asked Samuel. If this light and darkness are literal, how is it that they are here before the sun and moon are created? What's your take on it?
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#13
And if you agree, as John states, that this is Jesus, what do you suppose the darkness to be?
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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#14
What actually happened:

God created the universe. The planet was in the stage of forming yet, when the Genesis begins its description.

God did not tell us this,,,,It is your assumption then???????????????

The current condition was a very thick atmosphere full of dust and world oceans covering all the surface of the Earth.

Where did this come from....I don't see it in Genesis at all.........


The dry land (continents) was not yet visible and furnished. Light could not penetrate the thick atmosphere.

Seems to me God created the light in Genesis 1:3. Where did the atmosphere come from, God had not created it yet?

This is Genesis 1:2. This is also what the science says. Too simple and without deep secrets? Sorry. :)

I see you had rather trust in man's science rather than God's WORD!!!!!!!!!!

11:00 is Genesis 1:2
[video=youtube;57merteLsBc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57merteLsBc[/video]
Through God's Word we see how the world was created step by step, day (24 hour) by day. It is to the Glory of God and in my mind simply AMAZING!!!!!
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
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#15
Stonesoffire, here is the study I promised to post for you. I know you have seen the spirit of the word - you know the word is spirit because God is Spirit - and I know you pursue the spirit of the words.

:)

Do you have an address where I can find this 'Stonesoffire' article.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#16

Do you have an address where I can find this 'Stonesoffire' article.
It's not an article. I posted it for stonesoffire because she understood what jonteel was saying and I thought she might then understand this too, since it ties in to what he was saying. But...she probably won't. You certainly don't. And yet when I ask what the heck anyone makes of this light and darkness being here days before the sun and moon were created, I only hear crickets. :D
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#17
And if you agree, as John states, that this is Jesus, what do you suppose the darkness to be?
Not Satan or evil as you might be expecting to hear, but simply a lack of the realization of Jesus.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#18
God created it through Jesus. So Jesus created a place where there was a lack of the realization of Himself?

And then also, this uncreated light created a place of darkness? There is no darkness in Him, but He created a place where there was darkness?

Okay, I'll be the crazy one. :)
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#19
I may have a different conclusion stunned because as I said before....am an old earth gap theorist. Is that even a word? Lol

I believe an ice age ended a first creation which was the time of Job, and the fall of Lucifer. Then Adam and Eve is the re-creation and the history or the ancestry of Yeshua. Somehow Jesus doesn't fit when I write this. Might be a personal thing though.

So my answer would be that darkness was all that was here. God is Light. His Light will be the only light in the new Jerusalem, so the Light that He spoke let there be, had to be from Him. He divided Light from darkness. ?

This off the top of my head. Will be back....- Swarztanegger.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#20
I don't know if that's a word...;) I've never heard of it. Have heard of Gap theory though. Tell me about it tomorrow. It's my thread and we can always talk in whichever direction we're led about whatever we want in one of my threads. About the only thing I'll balk about someone not sticking to the subject over in one of my threads is if they start their infernal OSAS/NOSAS or speaking in tongues arguments! :)