The Barren Woman

[KJV1611]

Isaiah 54:1-7 KJV
Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord .

I have a few questions about her and the married wife.

1) Who is the barren woman?
2) Does she have a husband?
3) How did she have children without travailing?
4) When did she bear her first child?
5) Who is the married wife?

 

[LaurenTM]

will this be with an eye to preterist interpretation?

cause then there will be split decisions.........

 

[KJV1611]

will this be with an eye to preterist interpretation?

cause then there will be split decisions.........

I've been studying her and those are just question that I'm asking myself and I'm hoping someone can provide scripture to answer... no hidden agenda lol.

 

[garee]

1) Who is the barren woman?

The church made of many lively stones (verses 11and 12)

2) Does she have a husband?

Christ, our head

3) How did she have children without travailing?

They are formed by the spiritual seed, Christ, and not in respect to the flesh.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

4) When did she bear her first child?

He had favor/grace on Abel as the Holy Spirit formed itself in Abel as Christ does in us, called Emanuel (God with us)

5) Who is the married wife?

The New Jerusalem (Christian’s) as the mother of us all.

 

[LaurenTM]

I've been studying her and those are just question that I'm asking myself and I'm hoping someone can provide scripture to answer... no hidden agenda lol.

LOL!

good then...would like to have a better look see but later...in the meantime, I am sure things will move along without me...

 

[dcontroversal]

The rest of the chapter tells exactly who he is speaking about........and who is who!

The barren woman is perceived as barren
Her husband is the MAKER of the whole earth (JESUS)
The children were born by faith
The first child (Jesus as the 1st born of creation)?
The married wife is the perceived barren woman (Israel)

This is off the cuff......without scrutinizing and an in depth study!

 

[1ofthem]

The rest of the chapter tells exactly who he is speaking about........and who is who!

The barren woman is perceived as barren
Her husband is the MAKER of the whole earth (JESUS)
The children were born by faith
The first child (Jesus as the 1st born of creation)?
The married wife is the perceived barren woman (Israel)

This is off the cuff......without scrutinizing and an in depth study!

Good post...
I agree...
I see it this way too.

The barren woman is only perceived as barren...She represents the new covenant.
Jesus is the bride groom.
The children were born by faith...and She adopted them under the new covenant.
The first born was Jesus.
The married wife was the Old Covenant or the law.

 

[KJV1611]

The rest of the chapter tells exactly who he is speaking about........and who is who!

The barren woman is perceived as barren
Her husband is the MAKER of the whole earth (JESUS)
The children were born by faith
The first child (Jesus as the 1st born of creation)?
The married wife is the perceived barren woman (Israel)

This is off the cuff......without scrutinizing and an in depth study!

Where does perceived barren come from?

 

[KJV1611]

Good post...
I agree...
I see it this way too.

The barren woman is only perceived as barren...She represents the new covenant.
Jesus is the bride groom.
The children were born by faith...and She adopted them under the new covenant.
The first born was Jesus.
The married wife was the Old Covenant or the law.

i was kind of leaning toward the married wife as God being married to Israel maybe.

 

[KJV1611]

The church made of many lively stones (verses 11and 12)



Christ, our head



They are formed by the spiritual seed, Christ, and not in respect to the flesh.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.



He had favor/grace on Abel as the Holy Spirit formed itself in Abel as Christ does in us, called Emanuel (God with us)


The New Jerusalem (Christian’s) as the mother of us all.

i agree with most of that but how did you arrive at the married wife being heavenly Jerusalem?

 

[Ariel82]

Isaiah 54:1-7 KJV
Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord .

I have a few questions about her and the married wife.

1) Who is the barren woman?
2) Does she have a husband?
3) How did she have children without travailing?
4) When did she bear her first child?
5) Who is the married wife?

The story Sarah, Hagar and Abraham helps explain the imagery.

 

[1ofthem]

i was kind of leaning toward the married wife as God being married to Israel maybe.

Yes, I get that and agree...My analogy on the Old Covenant and Law is because I see it as God was married to her (Israel) by the law at that time, and although she had children, she had less children than what the barren woman would have.

I could be wrong but that's just the analogy that I make with it.

 

[Ariel82]

Galatians 4

Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, which things are symbolic

. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

For it is written:
“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what does the Scripture say?

“Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

 

[1ofthem]

Galatians 4

Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, which things are symbolic

. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

For it is written:
“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what does the Scripture say?

“Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

Good post... I knew I was drawing that analogy for some reason...just couldn't say it exactly right or remember where I had read it...lol

Your post was spot on though.

 

[dcontroversal]

Where does perceived barren come from?

The one (perceived) as barren

a) Is indeed married and has children (indeed less children compared to the desolate)
b) HER tents SHALL BE ENLARGED (indicative of growth and the context is barren as opposed to not)
c) She shall not be ashamed, confounded or put to shame (She is only perceived as barren and without husband, but is married already she will bear vs. 13)
d) She shall be gathered even though she has been forsaken but for a moment

Some points to ponder concerning the above.

Israel questioned God and made reference to being divorced and GOD through the prophet asked for them to produce a bill or writing of their divorcement!

Those who remained unmarried and without child suffered reproach in Eastern societies including Israel...and numerous stories of the bible bear this out, especially as applied unto Hebrew (Israeli) women.

This one will be rejected by most but does bear out.....

A study of a couple of parables will reveal Gentile believers as GUESTS at the wedding though overlooked by most
The BRIDE (definite article applied) is identified as NEW JERUSALEM coming down out of heaven from our of GOD
ISRAEL was called the ASSEMBLY (same word translated church in the KJ) of the FIRSTBORN in the WILDERNESS

MY VIEW.....this is after the great tribulation and wrath of God..the reference to the Gentiles/waste cities and HER populating them in verse 3

 

[KJV1611]

Galatians 4

Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, which things are symbolic

. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

For it is written:
“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what does the Scripture say?

“Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were born of her, we are born of her.... all believers old and new testament, so who is she? I have to agree with garee, she is the church, the church going all the way back to the beginning with Adam and Eve.

 

[KJV1611]

The one (perceived) as barren

a) Is indeed married and has children (indeed less children compared to the desolate)

Agreed, I think her husband is Christ as garee said. But you're wrong in the parenthesis, she is the DESOLATE one, she has more children than the one with a husband which I think is flesh descendants of Israel... Israel was married to God.

b) HER tents SHALL BE ENLARGED (indicative of growth and the context is barren as opposed to not)

Agreed, this is growth. The Gentiles were being added to the barren woman, JERUSALEM ABOVE, not earthly israel. The desolate woman's seed, Christ, shall inerit the Gentiles... thus enlarging the tents.

Isaiah 54:3 KJV
For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

c) She shall not be ashamed, confounded or put to shame (She is only perceived as barren and without husband, but is married already she will bear vs. 13)

I completely disagree with this. There is no perceived barreness in that verse, she is to not be ashamed because of the things she did in her youth AND she is also a widow, which means she was married at one time and her husband died. This is interesting to me and I want to learn more about it. Who do you think Jerusalem above's dead husband is?

Isaiah 54:4 KJV
Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

d) She shall be gathered even though she has been forsaken but for a moment

She meaning JERUSALEM ABOVE is forsaken for a moment, this is not earthly Jerusalem and flesh Israel. This is getting long, I'm going to split out the rest.

I'm guessing, based on past conversations with you, that you believe " She shall be gathered even though she has been forsaken but for a moment" is talking about flesh Israel rather than Jerusalem above.

 

[dcontroversal]

Agreed, I think her husband is Christ as garee said. But you're wrong in the parenthesis, she is the DESOLATE one, she has more children than the one with a husband which I think is flesh descendants of Israel... Israel was married to God.



Agreed, this is growth. The Gentiles were being added to the barren woman, JERUSALEM ABOVE, not earthly israel. The desolate woman's seed, Christ, shall inerit the Gentiles... thus enlarging the tents.

Isaiah 54:3 KJV
For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.



I completely disagree with this. There is no perceived barreness in that verse, she is to not be ashamed because of the things she did in her youth AND she is also a widow, which means she was married at one time and her husband died. This is interesting to me and I want to learn more about it. Who do you think Jerusalem above's dead husband is?

Isaiah 54:4 KJV
Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.


She meaning JERUSALEM ABOVE is forsaken for a moment, this is not earthly Jerusalem and flesh Israel. This is getting long, I'm going to split out the rest.

I'm guessing, based on past conversations with you, that you believe " She shall be gathered even though she has been forsaken but for a moment" is talking about flesh Israel rather than Jerusalem above.

Seeing how the redeemed are in glorified bodies that are like the angels in heaven (not marrying) How do you suppose they repopulate the waste cities of the planet, and a child dies accursed being 100 years old?

 

[dcontroversal]

Agreed, I think her husband is Christ as garee said. But you're wrong in the parenthesis, she is the DESOLATE one, she has more children than the one with a husband which I think is flesh descendants of Israel... Israel was married to God.



Agreed, this is growth. The Gentiles were being added to the barren woman, JERUSALEM ABOVE, not earthly israel. The desolate woman's seed, Christ, shall inerit the Gentiles... thus enlarging the tents.

Isaiah 54:3 KJV
For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.



I completely disagree with this. There is no perceived barreness in that verse, she is to not be ashamed because of the things she did in her youth AND she is also a widow, which means she was married at one time and her husband died. This is interesting to me and I want to learn more about it. Who do you think Jerusalem above's dead husband is?

Isaiah 54:4 KJV
Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.


She meaning JERUSALEM ABOVE is forsaken for a moment, this is not earthly Jerusalem and flesh Israel. This is getting long, I'm going to split out the rest.

I'm guessing, based on past conversations with you, that you believe " She shall be gathered even though she has been forsaken but for a moment" is talking about flesh Israel rather than Jerusalem above.

Shakes head...the answers you give seem to contradict the following statement, and belies the fact that in reality you already held your own view and belief...

You said....

I've been studying her and those are just question that I'm asking myself and I'm hoping someone can provide scripture to answer... no hidden agenda lol.

 

[KJV1611]

Seeing how the redeemed are in glorified bodies that are like the angels in heaven (not marrying) How do you suppose they repopulate the waste cities of the planet, and a child dies accursed being 100 years old?

Teach me something... where are glorified bodies, wastes cities of the PLANET and children dying accursed at 100 years old in Isaiah 54?