Israel is NOT the Church and the Church is NOT Israel.

[ChosenbyHim]

The Church is not Israel. Neither is Israel the Church.

There is a fine line division between the two. It is important to be dispensational when your reading and studying the infallible word of the living God. Being dispensational will help to keep you from falling into heresy. And also will keep you from being deceived by hereticks such as Steven Anderson and others like him.

We who are Christians are not the house of Israel. Neither are we Jews. Do not be deceived the Hebrew Roots Movement.

Today in this dispensation of Grace, both Saved Jews and Saved Gentiles make up and form the Body of Christ. There is no longer a middle wall of partition that divides us. Consider the goodness and longsuffering of God.

If you have been saved and born again, then rejoice in your salvation. But do not start to say that you are now Israel or that you are a Jew because you are not. God is not done with His people Israel, He still has a future plan for them and it will be accomplished no matter what Anderson or other antisemites claim.

 

[Magenta]

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, for we are all one in Christ Jesus

 

[Spurgeoncy]

When did the Church start?

 

[Bladerunner]

The Church is not Israel. Neither is Israel the Church.

There is a fine line division between the two. It is important to be dispensational when your reading and studying the infallible word of the living God. Being dispensational will help to keep you from falling into heresy. And also will keep you from being deceived by hereticks such as Steven Anderson and others like him.

We who are Christians are not the house of Israel. Neither are we Jews. Do not be deceived the Hebrew Roots Movement.

Today in this dispensation of Grace, both Saved Jews and Saved Gentiles make up and form the Body of Christ. There is no longer a middle wall of partition that divides us. Consider the goodness and longsuffering of God.

If you have been saved and born again, then rejoice in your salvation. But do not start to say that you are now Israel or that you are a Jew because you are not. God is not done with His people Israel, He still has a future plan for them and it will be accomplished no matter what Anderson or other antisemites claim.

While I agree with you on some point BUT...........

*********************

Supercessionism/Replacement Theology is the concept that the Church replaces Israel and God’s promises to Israel therefore removing any further significance to the Jewish people. This started with the early “Church Fathers” such as Origen and Augustine and led to Jewish persecution through both the Roman Catholic Church as well as the Reformers.

*********************

Dispensationalism is an approach to biblical interpretation which states that God uses different means of working with people (Israel and the Church) during different periods of history.

*********************

Much has been said of the Emergent Church’s “post-modern” Gospel and contemplative prayer, but little has been said about the movements stance on Israel.

Popular speaker and leader associated with the “Emerging Church”, Tony Campolo is highly critical of dispensationalism and further states:

“We cannot buy into that mindset that says that the Holy Land belongs only to the Jews. It belongs to all the people that are living there right now. That’s what justice calls for.”

Donald Miller, author of “Blue Like Jazz” and associated with the “Emerging Church” is also highly critical of Israel. While calling for “Peace” he is clearly promoting the idea that the Church replaces Israel:

“A small but powerful group of evangelicals still believe when the New Testament refers to Israel it’s referring to the new found country rather than a spiritual nation formed in the collective hearts of all believers. This belief, true or not, is encouraging many to side with Israel and buy into the spin “


***************

To be Blunt about all of the above,,,, All of them (in my opinion) are anti-sematic in one form or the other.

The bible teaches us that for those that believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (His Bride,,His Church) will live forever with Him in Heaven.

The Bible also teaches us that ALTHOUGH Israel has and did (32AD) turn away from Jesus Christ as their Messiah Nagid (the promised and expected deliverer (King) of the Jewish people), that He will deliver them from their sins and bring those that seek him out (in those days--end days) unto His house as His people and their God..

For all of us that believe, we wiil all (church and Israel) be in heaven with our God. amen

 

[trofimus]

And here we go again...

 

[dcontroversal]

The assembly (same word translated church) of the firstborn in the wilderness.........

 

[zone]

The Church is not Israel. Neither is Israel the Church.

There is a fine line division between the two. It is important to be dispensational when your reading and studying the infallible word of the living God. Being dispensational will help to keep you from falling into heresy. And also will keep you from being deceived by hereticks such as Steven Anderson and others like him.

We who are Christians are not the house of Israel. Neither are we Jews. Do not be deceived the Hebrew Roots Movement.

Today in this dispensation of Grace, both Saved Jews and Saved Gentiles make up and form the Body of Christ. There is no longer a middle wall of partition that divides us. Consider the goodness and longsuffering of God.

If you have been saved and born again, then rejoice in your salvation. But do not start to say that you are now Israel or that you are a Jew because you are not. God is not done with His people Israel, He still has a future plan for them and it will be accomplished no matter what Anderson or other antisemites claim.

this proposition is a huge pile of rubbish.
all false doctrine.
how dare you people

 

[dcontroversal]

this proposition is a huge pile of rubbish.
all false doctrine.
how dare you people

Post 6 Thank you very much

 

[MattTooFor]

this proposition is a huge pile of rubbish.
all false doctrine.
how dare you people

Amen, sister. (Or "brother"?) The only real purpose for "dispensationalism" is to prop up the PreTrib doctrine and to manipulate conservative Christians into supporting the political movement of "Zionism"...which is to say, have conservative Christians supporting every bloody, phony war cooked up by the military/industrial complex which Eisenhower bravely warned of.

And thus it has been: Every single top Evangelical leader has lined up to support every single phony war...going at least all the way back to the US-perpetrated holocaust in the Philippines in 1898. In fact, back in those days, the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" was a very popular and heavily-used homage sung by thousands of duped believers in honor of the mass bloodshed in the Philippines. Yikes.

Still going on today -- major dispensationalist John Hagee calling for mass slaughter in the Middle East in the name of dispensationalist-driven Zionism.

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen, sister. (Or "brother"?) The only real purpose for "dispensationalism" is to prop up the PreTrib doctrine and to manipulate conservative Christians into supporting the political movement of "Zionism"...which is to say, have conservative Christians supporting every bloody, phony war cooked up by the military/industrial complex which Eisenhower bravely warned of.

And thus it has been: Every single top Evangelical leader has lined up to support every single phony war...going at least all the way back to the US-perpetrated holocaust in the Philippines in 1898. In fact, back in those days, the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" was a very popular and heavily-used homage sung by thousands of duped believers in honor of the mass bloodshed in the Philippines. Yikes.

Still going on today -- major dispensationalist John Hagee calling for mass slaughter in the Middle East in the name of dispensationalist-driven Zionism.

I have no dog in this debate nor do I listen to Hagee
but I listened to the video out of curoisty.

I find it so telling when they name of the video says "John Hagee Calls for Pre-emptive nuckler strike against Iran"...and the truth is according to that very video Hagee actually says "It's time to consider a pre-emptive military strike in Iran to prevent a nuclear holocaust in Israel."


Whoever made this video is deceitful because it is not saying what Hagee actually said. Hagee did not " call for a nuclear strike in Iran" ..he says a strike and could be of any sort not that it is to be a nuclear one.

See the "twist" in what was actually being said and changed to make it "appear" to be something different then what it really was?

Whenever I see deceptive tricks like that being played that obviously "twist" what someone is actually saying - I automatically dismiss them.

 

[MattTooFor]

I have no dog in this debate nor do I listen to Hagee
but I listened to the video out of curoisty.

I find it so telling when they name of the video says "John Hagee Calls for Pre-emptive nuckler strike against Iran"...and the truth is according to that very video Hagee actually says "It's time to consider a pre-emptive military strike in Iran to prevent a nuclear holocaust in Israel."


Whoever made this video is deceitful because it is not saying what Hagee actually said. Hagee did not " call for a nuclear strike in Iran" ..he says a strike and could be of any sort not that it is to be a nuclear one.

See the "twist" in what was actually being said and changed to make it "appear" to be something different then what it really was?

Whenever I see deceptive tricks like that being played that obviously "twist" what someone is actually saying - I automatically dismiss them.

Well, you do have a "dog" in this debate. You just put one in - lol!

And your comment couldn't be any further off-point...which is a bit interesting. I am ONLY pointing to the video snippet of Hagee's comments. I have ZERO interest OR knowledge of who may have put this video up on YouTube. I couldn't care less.

I am pointing out how ALL top Evangelical leaders support EVERY SINGLE bloody war which the satanic "military/industrial complex" has concocted. And it all originates with dispensationalism... through a very subtle, diabolical linkage.

 

[Grace777x70]

Well, you do have a "dog" in this debate. You just put one in - lol!

And your comment couldn't be any further off-point...which is a bit interesting. I am ONLY pointing to the video snippet of Hagee's comments. I have ZERO interest OR knowledge of who may have put this video up on YouTube. I couldn't care less.

I am pointing out how ALL top Evangelical leaders support EVERY SINGLE bloody war which the satanic "military/industrial complex" has concocted. And it all originates with dispensationalism... through a very subtle, diabolical linkage.

Lol....well that is "ruff"..dog-gone-it

I take it you don't believe that any country should go to war for any reason?...and all wars are caused by dispensationalism?

As Is aid - I have no reason to start a "cat-fight" ( I changing species on ya here ) - I was just showing how deceptive people can be on the internet and that they "twist" what is really being said to make it "appear" to be saying something else. This is a common tactic of self-proclaimed heretic hunters.

 

[Ahwatukee]

There are two primary distinctions to dispensationalism: 1) a consistently literal interpretation of Scripture, especially Bible prophecy, and 2) a view of the uniqueness of Israel as being separate from the church in God’s program.

The church did not exist prior to Christ's appearing, for he says:

"I will [build] my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."

The word "build" in verse above, is in the future tense. You can't build something if it already existed. The nation Israel is a separate program from the church. And all prophesies given to Israel will be fulfilled literally.

Regarding Bible prophecy, all previous prophesies were fulfilled literally. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that all future prophesies (end-time events) will also be fulfilled literally.

Daniel 9:24 states that seventy 'sevens' (seventy seven year periods) were decreed upon Israel and their holy city Jerusalem. Sixty-nine of those seven year periods were fulfilled when the Messiah was cut off, which was Christ crucified. At that time, God paused that last seven years to be fulfilled at a future time and began to build his church. Consequently, the church is still in the process of being built. Once the church has been completed, then the promise of the Lord's coming to gather his church will take place with the dead in Christ rising first and then the living in Christ being transformed and caught up with them, with the entire group being taken back to the Father's house.

Once the gathering of the church has taken place, God will take up where he left off with his people Israel. That ruler will come and establish a seven year agreement/pact with Israel, which will allow them to build their temple and begin to make sacrifices and offerings according to the law. And as the scripture states, in the middle of that seven years "He" that ruler, will have that abomination set up in the holy place within the temple. in addition and according to 2 Thes.2:4, that ruler, the man of lawlessness will stand in the temple proclaiming himself to be God or anything that is called God or worshiped.

The gathering of the church will be the next prophetic event to take place and Following that will be the fulfillment of that last seven years initiated by God through that ruler, that antichrist, which will also be the beginning of his wrath.

 

[zone]

...There are two primary distinctions to dispensationalism: 1) a consistently literal interpretation of Scripture, especially Bible prophecy, and 2) a view of the uniqueness of Israel as being separate from the church in God’s program....

dispensational garbage.
all of it.

 

[Ahwatukee]

dispensational garbage.
all of it.

That's because you are a preterist and do not believe in what the word of God literally says. Just because zone says it is garbage does not make it the truth. But you will soon find out the truth when you see everything taking place just as it is found in scripture.

By the way "dispensational garbage" is not a very good comeback to the fact that all previous prophesies have been fulfilled literally. So, the burden of proof is on you and preterists. Every prophecy regarding Christ was fulfilled literally and the prophesies yet to come will also be fulfilled literally.

 

[MattTooFor]

The church did not exist prior to Christ's appearing, for he says:

"I will [build] my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."

The word "build" in verse above, is in the future tense. You can't build something if it already existed.

I would argue you are leaning way too heavily on this 'future tense' thing. One could easily imagine someone standing in midst of some assembled building blocks in the earliest stages of a construction, and saying "I will build this house over the next three months". I would say you've slipped into hyper-literalism.

Additionally, when Jesus was collecting His building blocks (or "rocks"), Peter, James, John, etc... and was "calling them out" (ekklesia) how was that NOT a part of the assembling process...the building process?

The word "church" isn't even in the Bible, one could argue. Translators with dubious agendas in olden times, took the word "ekklesia" which means "the called out ones" and in a complete disconnect, translated that word into the word church.

Technically, the correct translation for the Greek word "the called ones" is.........."the called out ones"!

And none of the stuff you are claiming about the "church" being removed before the 70th Week...is in the Bible. You're just making thin-air assertions, I would dare say.

Particularly because Jesus, in the Olivet Discourse, specifically told members of the "ekklesia", Peter, James, John, Andrew, (etc,) that they needed to live with an expectation of encountering the "Abomination of Desolation"...and an expectation of entering into the "Great Tribulation". Jesus was saying this...to believers, to "disciples", to Christians.

Anyway..I was still waiting for you to respond to this post, below. Oh well...

Actually, at the end of the Great Tribulation, the Lord appears "in the sky" (Matthew 24:30). He doesn't yet come down to earth.

 

[samuel23]

The bible is clear that the church are the branches growing from the tree of Israel, so one can never completely separate the Church from Israel. The church was and is made up of the obedient of Israel and the obedient of the gentiles. The church is where God dwells today and what He is working through, however God has a plan to bring in the rest of the nation of Israel at the end of the age, so all of Israel will be saved.

 

[iamsoandso]

I notice that this has always been this way one position at odds with another position. As far back as we look there was the protestants at odds with the Catholics, the Amills against the mills ect. In the days when Christ was born there were the Pharisees,the Sadducee,Essenes,Zealots,Sicarii ect. all at odds with one another on the matter of Eschatology.

 

[Magenta]

I notice that this has always been this way one position at odds with another position. As far back as we look there was the protestants at odds with the Catholics, the Amills against the mills ect. In the days when Christ was born there were the Pharisees,the Sadducee,Essenes,Zealots,Sicarii ect. all at odds with one another on the matter of Eschatology.

Why were the Sadducees sad? Because they did not
believe in the resurrection, so they were sad, you see?

 

[MattTooFor]

I take it you don't believe that any country should go to war for any reason?

Well...if you can find one of those 'good' wars...feel free to point it out. Start a thread or something.

and all wars are caused by dispensationalism?

Well...I say again, almost to a man and to a woman, virtually ALL Evangelicals support all the current wars and brewing wars ("wars and rumors of wars") going on all across the Middle East.

The very backbone of support for the "military/industrial complex" comes from Evangelicals. It is what it is. What can one say?

And yes, it ties into Zionism...the support of which is justified by "dispensationalism" with all its attendant mis-teachings.