Is Everything God's Will?

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DaveTheRave

DaveTheRave

Senior Member
#1
May 28, 2014
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#1
Good morning everyone :D
I thought it would be interesting to discuss with you guys the belief of God being in control of everything. One of the most common arguments that people tend to use against the existence of God is "Why is there such pain and suffering in the world if God is in control?" Oftentimes in Irish churches (which tend to be predominantly Catholic) they would say that 'God is mysterious' and leave it at that.
On the contrary, if we say that God is not in control of everything that happens in the world then is he truly an omnipotent God?
So, what do you guys think? Is God in control? Is he not? or is there another explanation entirely?

David
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#2
Jul 24, 2016
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Well in the overall scheme of things nothing that happens without God allowing it to happen.. But just because God has allowed us to exist in this world for a time as faulty sinners who suffer from living in a sabotaged creation does not mean that He thinks evil and suffering are good..

So God is in ultimate control and His eternal plan requires that for a time we exist as faulty beings in a faulty world..

I used to be catholic.. But i read the Bible and that all changed..
 
DaveTheRave

DaveTheRave

Senior Member
#3
May 28, 2014
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Yeah, I would agree with you there Adstar
 
DaveTheRave

DaveTheRave

Senior Member
#4
May 28, 2014
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Adstar said:
I used to be catholic.. But i read the Bible and that all changed..
Click to expand...
I think a lot of Irish people have turned their back on Christianity as a whole because of the Catholic church, quite sad really.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#5
Jul 24, 2016
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#5
DaveTheRave said:
I think a lot of Irish people have turned their back on Christianity as a whole because of the Catholic church, quite sad really.
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Well i see things a bit different.. I did not become a Christian until i read the Bible.. When i read the Bible i renounced catholicism.. So to me they are no leaving Christianity because of the catholic church.. They are leaving the catholic church with the wrong idea that they are leaving Christianity..
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#6
Nov 22, 2015
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If everything that happened in this world was the will of God then Jesus spent most of His time fighting that will.

We live in a fallen creation marred from sin that has not yet been redeemed. We have the world system, the flesh and the devil and Jesus has defeated all these by the will of the Father. As we walk these truths out in our life as Christians we are revealing the will of God to others. One day creation itself will be redeemed.

"Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven" is still a truth for today.
 
R

RBA238

Guest
#7
#7
I was born and raised Catholic. Both my Grandmothers immigrated to the United States and were devout Catholics...At the Age of 43 I became a Born Again Child of God...We have to remember The Vatican could control the floak because there was no Internet or Ways to check out what was False or real. This is why Catholics are not encouraged to study the Word of God. They told us in Catholic School to always go to the Priest if you read a Bible so he could "Explain" What the Bible was saying, and other Excuses to keep everyone mind and thought control. I am the only one in my Family to see The Light...
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#8
Aug 17, 2015
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Yes, everything is God's will.

When he chose the best possible world to create, this best world (our world) had to contain some evils because of reasons we do not know.

So, even though God does not want evil and does not like any evil, He had to allow it, because if He would take some evil out of existence, it would not be the best possible world anymore.
 
DaveTheRave

DaveTheRave

Senior Member
#9
May 28, 2014
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#9
Adstar said:
Well i see things a bit different.. I did not become a Christian until i read the Bible.. When i read the Bible i renounced catholicism.. So to me they are no leaving Christianity because of the catholic church.. They are leaving the catholic church with the wrong idea that they are leaving Christianity..
Click to expand...
Yes, that's true there is a lot of disillusionment because they have not seen true born-again Christianity.
 
DaveTheRave

DaveTheRave

Senior Member
#10
May 28, 2014
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trofimus said:
Yes, everything is God's will.

When he chose the best possible world to create, this best world (our world) had to contain some evils because of reasons we do not know.

So, even though God does not want evil and does not like any evil, He had to allow it, because if He would take some evil out of existence, it would not be the best possible world anymore.
Click to expand...
So are you saying that God created evil to make good seem better? Please correct me if that's not what you meant.

But if everything on Earth is God's will (including the bad stuff) then why would Jesus have said "your will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven" [ Like Grace777 said ]
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#11
Nov 12, 2015
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#11
DaveTheRave said:
Good morning everyone :D
I thought it would be interesting to discuss with you guys the belief of God being in control of everything. One of the most common arguments that people tend to use against the existence of God is "Why is there such pain and suffering in the world if God is in control?" Oftentimes in Irish churches (which tend to be predominantly Catholic) they would say that 'God is mysterious' and leave it at that.
On the contrary, if we say that God is not in control of everything that happens in the world then is he truly an omnipotent God?
So, what do you guys think? Is God in control? Is he not? or is there another explanation entirely?

David
Click to expand...
I used to wonder about this too, Dave. :)
It all became a moot point to me though when I learned that He works all things to our good.

What happened to Jesus seems abominable, and it really was, but God had a plan to work it for our good, and He did. Satan meant it for evil, but God meant it for good. And the darkness did not overcome the light.

And Josephs' brothers did what they did to him and they meant it for evil, but we see that God had a plan and He meant it for good and turned it to good. And the darkness did not overcome the light.

It's hard to walk by faith instead of by what we see happening, but that IS the race. When the three men were thrown in the oven, they didn't say: oh, we live in a fallen world so this is just what happens and why evil is allowed to come to us. They said, our God is able to save us from this (turn it for our good, because it was meant for evil by men but God turned it to good for them. And darkness did not overcome the light.

So it becomes a moot point. God will never give a stone to a child who asks for bread. It only seems like a stone sometimes, because it is hard like a stone and not soft like bread. So if we have to view it as a stone, that's probably okay...but we reckon that He will TURN IT INTO bread. :)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#12
#12
God has a plan, As far as that plan goes, He will attain his will and purpose.

Satan tried to destroy Gods plan, you can see in the OT how God used all kinds of people to fulfill his plan, up until the time Christ arrived and did what he intended to do (even then, he used man to attain his will)

God will not, however,

1. Over rule a persons will
2. Make a person do somethign he does not want to do. He may however, As in the case of pharoah, Strengthen a persons true desire (harden their heart) and get them to do what they already wanted to do. but hesitated because of whatever reason) to fulfill Gods purpose)
3. As his word says, He is patient willing that non should perish (he must sadly allow us to make mistakes, otherwise we would never see our need for him, Sadly, this allows evil, Allows people to drink and drive and kill others, Allows all kinds of pain and suffering.
4. Imagine a word where all our needs were met, and everything went our way, There was no evil, etc etc, What purpose would we need for Christ, and how woulld we even see that need?

 
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RBA238

Guest
#13
#13
In One Scripture God declares he did create Good and Evil. Meaning, we all have a Free Will to choose Good or Evil. Even The Angels in heaven are not Robots. If they were, how did Archangel Lucifer decide one day he could be like God and rebelled against God his creator?
Read the story in Ezikiel 28 and Isaiah 14.
 
DaveTheRave

DaveTheRave

Senior Member
#14
May 28, 2014
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RBA238 said:
In One Scripture God declares he did create Good and Evil. Meaning, we all have a Free Will to choose Good or Evil. Even The Angels in heaven are not Robots. If they were, how did Archangel Lucifer decide one day he could be like God and rebelled against God his creator?
Read the story in Ezikiel 28 and Isaiah 14.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's true. Free will does play a part in the reason everything is not ideal (yet). Which is contrary to the idea that God controls everything that happens in the universe. But he does of course have a plan and will defeat Satan once and for all.
 
R

RBA238

Guest
#15
#15
The "Control" part is God controls everything in the heavens above things going on under the Water, and deep in the earth, the heavens, etc.
Revelation 17 verse 17: "And He (God) Will PUT IN THEIR MINDS to fulfill his Will".
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#16
Nov 12, 2015
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#16
I have some questions about your post.:) It ties into what some others of you said also. Many questions, but I'll start with this one.

When you say "free will" do you mean self will? And if that is what you mean when you use the term, how do you define "self will?"
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#17
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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113
#17
DaveTheRave said:
So are you saying that God created evil to make good seem better? Please correct me if that's not what you meant.
Click to expand...
I said that the best possible world has to contain some evils from the reasons we do not know. God knows better.

You can say that good looks better when we know also the evil, but I am not saying it is the reason or the only one reason. I am only saying there is some reason/reasons. I am not saying which ones. Only God sees everything and knows them all.

DaveTheRave said:
But if everything on Earth is God's will (including the bad stuff) then why would Jesus have said "your will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven" [ Like Grace777 said ]
Click to expand...
This is, between other possible views, an expression of our submission to His will.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#18
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#18
Stunnedbygrace said:
I used to wonder about this too, Dave. :)
It all became a moot point to me though when I learned that He works all things to our good.

What happened to Jesus seems abominable, and it really was, but God had a plan to work it for our good, and He did. Satan meant it for evil, but God meant it for good. And the darkness did not overcome the light.

And Josephs' brothers did what they did to him and they meant it for evil, but we see that God had a plan and He meant it for good and turned it to good. And the darkness did not overcome the light.

It's hard to walk by faith instead of by what we see happening, but that IS the race. When the three men were thrown in the oven, they didn't say: oh, we live in a fallen world so this is just what happens and why evil is allowed to come to us. They said, our God is able to save us from this (turn it for our good, because it was meant for evil by men but God turned it to good for them. And darkness did not overcome the light.

So it becomes a moot point. God will never give a stone to a child who asks for bread. It only seems like a stone sometimes, because it is hard like a stone and not soft like bread. So if we have to view it as a stone, that's probably okay...but we reckon that He will TURN IT INTO bread. :)
Click to expand...
I forgot to mention Job in this post too! What Satan meant for evil concerning Job, God meant for good and so He turned it to good and Job, who had only heard about God, actually MET God. The darkness and the will and intent of darkness did not overcome the light. It never can. God's will and intent can never be overcome by the darkness.

So I forgot Job! :)
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#19
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#19
Stunnedbygrace said:
I have some questions about your post.:) It ties into what some others of you said also. Many questions, but I'll start with this one.

When you say "free will" do you mean self will? And if that is what you mean when you use the term, how do you define "self will?"
Click to expand...
See there I did it again EG! This was concerning your post. You are the only one I keep doing this to! :D
 
S

sharkwhales

Senior Member
#20
Jan 31, 2016
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#20
The term omnipotence is misleading so I don't use it much. God shares power with us. It is not his will that we harm ourselves with the power he gives us, but it is his will that we grow and that requires the ability to harm ourselves, to make mistakes and learn from them. So bad things for their own sake are not God's will, but bad things for the sake of a greater good aren't truly bad. Once you see how something works out for our good, it has been made subject to God's goodness -- is it still evil then? 'That what is mortal might be swallowed up in life'... 'where sin increased, grace abounded even more'. We must know that because God is greater, goodness is greater.
 
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