Israel Is The Church, The Church Is Israel

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 13, 2016
744
6
0
#1
Ephesians 2
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


Paul makes it totally, 100%, unmistakably, clear, that the Church is Israel, Israel is the Church. They are one and the same.


Why is there any doubt or argument over this?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2
Because people make it an argument, And worse yet, Condemn people to hell who do agree with them.

Instead of doing like most honest true believers in Christ, and saying, hey bro, I disagree with yuo, But thats ok, we will all find out one day, lets praise God and win the lost.



Adam and Eve, Noah and Abraham, Daniel and Jeremiah. Paul and Peter. You and I. we are all part of the churhc.

There is NO JEW or NO GENTILE. the church was BEFORE ISRAEL, it is AFTER ISRAEL.

Christ is the head.

Why is this so hard to understand?

You have two choices. No one BEFORE the commonwealth of Israel was established is a part of Gods family. Or All people of all times are part of Gods family who have been adopted into Gods family. Be it Jew or gentile.

People have to remember, In 1st century, Christianity was deemed and professed by its followers to be the FULFILLMENT of Judaism.

Yet most jews rejected this messiah.

so Paul spent MUCH of his writtings dealing with this issue..

EPh 2 is just another of the many responses of Paul to this question.

According to jews for many years. Gentiles had NO right be be called Gods people (unless they converted to being a jew by doing all these ceremonial things) and this was even backed by the law. If gentile wanted to be part. they had to do these things.

Now. those barriers were lifted. They could walk and represent God as they are and where they are without these traditions and laws.

However, what MANY Miss, is that SALVATION was NEVER BY THOSE laws or traditions. A gentile was saved just like a jew, BY FAITH IN GOD (Nineveh proves this)
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#3
Ephesians 2
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


Paul makes it totally, 100%, unmistakably, clear, that the Church is Israel, Israel is the Church. They are one and the same.


Why is there any doubt or argument over this?
1. Because people were tought differently in the churches where the dispensationalism and sionism are the priority.

2. Because people read the Old Testament in the "Jewish" way, not spiritually as we are said in the new one.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#4
1. Because people were tought differently in the churches where the dispensationalism and sionism are the priority.

2. Because people read the Old Testament in the "Jewish" way, not spiritually as we are said in the new one.
Oh,,

And preterism is not the result of the same flawed "lets follow men" theology?

Just because SOME people have bought into a false idea of what dispensationalism teaches, and made it different than most. Does not mean ALL dispensationals are that way..


Just like not all PRETERISTS AMILLS, or whatever you want to call them, Think dispys are hellbound because they reject Christ.
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,877
1,949
113
Germany
#5
Hmm..nope we christians are the body
1 corinthians 12 speaks about it all chapter
[FONT=&quot] For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into[c] one Spirit. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. [/FONT]
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#6
Hmm..nope we christians are the body
1 corinthians 12 speaks about it all chapter
For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into[c] one Spirit. 14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.
Amen, it is time for the Church, no matter who they are or what they follow. to start focusing on the body, and the world. Not who or what Isreal is..

All this division is damaging God and his body,, and turning people away from God.
 
Dec 13, 2016
744
6
0
#7
Hmm..nope we christians are the body
1 corinthians 12 speaks about it all chapter
For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into[c] one Spirit. 14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

Can you explain a bit more
the "Hmmm..nope" ?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,213
2,548
113
#8
I don't understand what some people have against Israel, I have seen many threads made in my time here specifically against Israel saying they are not the church they are going to hell ect. As I said in the last thread about Israel and the church who are we to decide who he calls his own?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#9
Oh,,

And preterism is not the result of the same flawed "lets follow men" theology?

Just because SOME people have bought into a false idea of what dispensationalism teaches, and made it different than most. Does not mean ALL dispensationals are that way..


Just like not all PRETERISTS AMILLS, or whatever you want to call them, Think dispys are hellbound because they reject Christ.
I was responding to the OP. Not sure what preterism has to do with my response.
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,877
1,949
113
Germany
#10
Exacly what I said. According to the bible all new born christians who are baptised into the holy Spirit, are born into the Body of Christ

Can you explain a bit more
the "Hmmm..nope" ?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#11
Paul makes it totally, 100%, unmistakably, clear, that the Church is Israel, Israel is the Church. They are one and the same.[/COLOR]
On the second reading I would correct this to:

"The Church is the real Israel and the believing part of the Israel is the Church. They are one and the same."

The unbelieving part of the Israel is theologically insignificant and their fate is the same as the fate of all other unbelieving people.
 
Dec 13, 2016
744
6
0
#12
Exacly what I said. According to the bible all new born christians who are baptised into the holy Spirit, are born into the Body of Christ
Ok, but what is the relevance to the thread?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#13
I don't understand what some people have against Israel, I have seen many threads made in my time here specifically against Israel saying they are not the church they are going to hell ect. As I said in the last thread about Israel and the church who are we to decide who he calls his own?
look at the history of mankind from th emoment Israel was formed. And you will see what it all boils down to.. Israel has been the most hated nation since nations were formed. Because God called them out. Just like the church (true) and its members, have been the most hated religious organist since the time of the fall.

 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,877
1,949
113
Germany
#14
This is not against Israel! I love Israel and the Israeli people. They have reborn Christians too. Israel are the chosen folk but they are not he body of Christ, where is this antisemetic?


I don't understand what some people have against Israel, I have seen many threads made in my time here specifically against Israel saying they are not the church they are going to hell ect. As I said in the last thread about Israel and the church who are we to decide who he calls his own?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#15
This is not against Israel! I love Israel and the Israeli people. They have reborn Christians too. Israel are the chosen folk but they are not he body of Christ, where is this antisemetic?
its not.. Unsaved jews are just as hellbound as unsaved gentiles..
 
Dec 13, 2016
744
6
0
#17
On the second reading I would correct this to:

"The Church is the real Israel and the believing part of the Israel is the Church. They are one and the same."

The unbelieving part of the Israel is theologically insignificant and their fate is the same as the fate of all other unbelieving people.

Yes but Paul actually says the unbelieving part are Not Israel.

So I understand your point, but we can also say it my way?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,213
2,548
113
#20
This is not against Israel! I love Israel and the Israeli people. They have reborn Christians too. Israel are the chosen folk but they are not he body of Christ, where is this antisemetic?
Sorry I didn't mean to say this thread was against Israel I was kind of thinking out loud scratching my head why Israel is so often attacked