Stop beating the kids! Spiritual abuse of Christians

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Corbinscam

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2016
560
35
28
#81
Forgiveness helps many to overcome the effects of abuse...
I realize I'm late to the party but I agree with this. To a point. For me I had to reach a point of being able to forgive people before I could move on in any way. I would never have thought I held a grudge until God examined my life and showed me I did. And then He brought me to a place of being able to genuinely forgive and feel pity for people I'd previously hated. I don't think its "as easy" as forgiving a person...because forgiving people who aren't sorry isn't easy but I think God can bring you (or drag you...) there.

Modern physcology overlooks the spiritual aspects of abuse and creates more of a victim mentality... just my 2 cents.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#82
Sorry, I am still stuck on the image of the girl running out of a counseling section that caused the counselor to quit her job and warn off anyone who wants to help others from fear they will face the same situation.

Should we try brain surgery on these forums?

No, but we can hold their hand, pray with them and encourage them to see a brain surgeon.

People who are spiritually abused have scars and hurts they never admit. It just gets buried and pushed aside.

I don't encourage people to dig or pull off scabs. Just to recognize when someone is in pain and not poke at the bandaid or do things that add to the pain.

No one is forcing anyone to come in this thread and yes there are a lot of hurting people with big issues going on in their lives.

Besides prayer and listening to them, what do you suggest we do?
How about talking about beaten kids OR the "harrowing" experiences of BYDU, instead of pretending it's the one, but really it's the other? This is obviously a BYDU post. Maybe not your intent, but it's where most took it. So far, the harrowing includes some guy telling made that kneeling is the way to pray, Grace is telling everyone to grow in grace to accept heretics/don't call them wolves, and to feel fine talking to God on a toilet, or you're a victim of abuse, 1of is sure that being a bit abusive leads to real abuse, you think trigger words are important words in the bible, Pete seems to think distorting your view of life has to be covered, that Saul the wolf, never became Paul the sheep, and that an agrument was abuse, Demi seems to think it's never the person's fault, confidence is required, and pity parties are bad, you're sure helplines, and article on a law firm site, and goof ole CBN has it down pat, and are equally as sure that someone scolds you for a prayer position will cause hurt. If that causes hurt, (and it didn't sound like that), something is wrong that something so small can be called abuse. (And calling them survivors is like calling an 80 year out a young man. No one is buying it, because it means nothing.) Peter is back giving his point, without worrying if there is a base in it. Isny says there is no answer. Basically each person is talking there thing, and the thing has little, if anything to do with the topic. And that because there was no real topic to begin with.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#83
There is always value in asking questions. It sounds like blue feels only special people should
be allowed to ask because emotions are dangerous things.

The deeply hurt talk like this, as if the Lord cannot heal them. This is just unbelief and in truth
open sharing of pain and need is the first step to honesty and the Lord's loving touch.

There is a kind of idolatry that puts my pain beyond reach of anyone. And the emotional lie makes
the feeling stronger, which justifies the deeper anguish. You can literally make yourself ill this way.

And the best counselling CBT relies on past good emotional strategies being returned to.
So we need more openness not less and more faith to know Christ loves us, and actually put this
into action.


People can only help because you make it so by opening up.
 
Last edited:

MadebyHim

Senior Member
Dec 17, 2016
572
15
0
#84
Beating and spanking is different. When my sons was little, and they got in trouble, they had one of three choices, stand in corner for hour, be grounded in house 2 days, or one crack on bottom. Smacking them on bottom hurt me more than it hurt them i think, so one was enough. They realized it was better taking the wack since it only hurt a couple minute or so, and the hour in corner seemed a lot longer than an hour, and 2 days in house seemed like week.
 

MadebyHim

Senior Member
Dec 17, 2016
572
15
0
#85
But the boys was always warned. If somebody gets hurt or something broke or damaged. Then if they didn't heed warning and someone was hurt or something damaged is when they got it. They was always warned to chill out.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#86
Don't forget Lynn thinking she has everyone figured out and is entitled to rail at people less qualified than herself for daring to talk about such topics as abuse. Fyi, my posts were meant to start discussion, no claims to,be an answer to all life's problems. If you weren't blinded by your anger and your own agenda, you would have noticed that I always pointed to GOD as the answer and recommended that we pray and listen to hurting people. If we find out they have been abused, we can recommend them to counselors or people who can get them in touch with people who can help.

However, why would anyone share or want to discuss anything in such a hostile environment?

I started the thread because I saw posts of people undergoing abuse or having undergone it. Its not to help those people, but to encourage people who encounter someone in pain and lashing out to listen instead of get angry, to pray instead of automatically tell them they are wrong and need correction. To refer them to professional help, if they will seek it.

No none of the abused people have posted on this thread. Not that I would blame them, I wouldn't have either.

Ask at least half the people here why dont they attend church?

Some will say it's because of medical problems and they would like to but can't.

However many will say it's because of something that happened in the church in their past, or they don't get much out of church or the church is filled with hypocrites, etc.

The list can go on. I have used many of the reasons myself for not staying at certain churches.

However I believe to mature into the person God intends us to be, we have to let go of past hurts. God didn't make us to be isolated people with no social interactions. We need to learn to be a function part of the Body of Christ.

You can continue to rail at me for posting this thread, because for some reason you find it an offensive topic.
As i said before no one is forcing you to post here. No one is forced to read any of the posts.

Or you could take your own advice and be quiet. Stop making a hostile environment, where anyone talking about anything you are uncomfortable with makes you want to shut them down with nasty words and an attitude that basically says "your problems are petty, your discussion trivial, why don't you do something more important." perhaps this type of manipulation and bullying works on most people you encounter, but I find it juvenile.

****
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#87
Back to the topic:

Spiritual abusers are often cult leaders, who try and be God's spokesperson. Often they claim to be prophets. They will tell their followers not to watch TV or read newspapers.they will make their followers feel as if God will turn away from them if they leave the group or don't follow what the group tells them to do.

I will look for more resources about the topic for those interested in understanding the topic more.

Again I say that we aren't qualified for brain surgery, but we can pray, listen and hold their hands while encouraging them by testifying the true nature of God and His love for them. If they decide to seek professional help, hopefully we will have the resources to refer them to someone who can help them work through deeper wounds and allow God to heal them instead of fester and become infected.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#88
It is a well established fact that for those that have not been transformed in their minds by the truth of the realities that are ours in Christ and thus we will be dominated by our flesh - these people having been abused by church people in the past will become abusers themselves through malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

What's the answer? I believe it is preach and teach on the love and grace of God in Christ as we will have the "nutrients" available for us to mature as Christians.

As we see the love and forgiveness that we have been given in Christ - this will release the love and forgiveness that is in us because we live by His life in and through us now. His life which is love and forgiveness will manifest in our lives.

This will spill over to others and thus the kingdom of God will be manifest on this earth just like Jesus said to ask for.
 
Last edited:
A

Ariel82

Guest
#89
One of the links below has a thread about spiritual abuse. I will repost some of the post from that time. I had forgotten I had looked into the topics previously. I just felt lead to examine the topic in more depth.

If you find this offensive, don't click on the thread.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#90
Here are some more articles that look worth reading.

I've only skimmed them but will probably read them in more detail when I have more time:

Warning Signs of Spiritual Abuse, Part I: Spiritual Life in God

Spiritual Abuse: With a Secondary Focus on the United Pentecostal Church

definition of spiritual abuse from one of the articles " spiritual abuse affects one spiritually. It is the result of a spiritual leader or system that tries to control, manipulate, or dominate a person. This control is often in the form of fear. This is considered a major factor in mind control or thought reform'

this one says it has Spiritual abuse recovery resources:


Spiritual Abuse Recovery Resources –

It has a lot of articles.

Hope that is helpful.

Going to go revisit the articles.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#91
10 Ways to Spot Spiritual Abuse | Mary DeMuth

Key quotes from article

Some of my spiritual abuse experiences include:

A leader above me telling me that even though I was burned out and losing my health, I had to stay in the ministry because if I didn’t I would lose all my gifting to do future ministry.

A church that repeatedly told us they basically had the corner on the market of Jesus and that if we had to go elsewhere, we would miss God’s highest.

A leader who found ministry to be a vehicle for his great gain, lying and manipulating donors to earn more and more money.

A ministry that shamed me into throwing away all my evil music (including Lionel Ritchie and Duran Duran…oh the evil!)

A leader who cornered me, threatened me, and yelled because I brought up a concern that others saw. This led to panic attacks.
Profile of spiritual abusers
Spiritually abusive ministries…

Have a distorted view of respect. They forget the simple adage that respect is earned, not granted. Abusive leaders demand respect without having earned it by good, honest living.

Demand allegiance as proof of the follower’s allegiance to Christ. It’s either his/her way or no way. And if a follower deviates, he is guilty of deviating from Jesus.

Use exclusive language. “We’re the only ministry really following Jesus.” “We have all the right theology.” Believe their way of doing things, thinking theologically, or handling ministry and church is the only correct way. Everyone else is wrong, misguided, or stupidly naive.

Create a culture of fear and shame. Often there is no grace for someone who fails to live up to the church’s or ministry’s expectation. And if someone steps outside of the often-unspoken rules, leaders shame them into compliance. Leaders can’t admit failure, but often search out failure in others and uses that knowledge to hold them in fear and captivity. They often quote scriptures about not touching God’s anointed, or bringing accusations against an elder. Yet they often confront sin in others, particularly ones who bring up legitimate biblical issues. Or they have their circle of influence take on this task, silencing critics.

Often have a charismatic leader at the helm who starts off well, but slips into arrogance, protectionism and pride. Where a leader might start off being personable and interested in others’ issues, he/she eventually withdraws to a small group of “yes people” and isolates from the needs of others. These ministries and churches harbor a cult of personality, meaning if the central figure of the ministry or church left, the entity would collapse, as it was entirely dependent on one person to hold the place together.

Cultivate a dependence on one leader or leaders for spiritual information. Personal discipleship isn’t encouraged. Often the Bible gets pushed away to the fringes unless the main leader is teaching it.

Demand blind servitude of their followers, but live prestigious, privileged lives. They live aloof from their followers and justify their material extravagance as God’s favor and approval on their ministry. Unlike Jesus’ instructions to take the last seat, they often take the first seat at events and court others to grant them privileges. They typically chase after wealth–at any cost, and often at the expense of the very people they shepherd.

Buffer him/herself from criticism by placing people around themselves whose only allegiance is to the leader. These leaders and churches view those who bring up legitimate issues as enemies. Those who were once friends/allies swiftly become enemies once a concern is raised. Sometimes these folks are banished, told to be silent, or shamed into submission.

Hold to outward performance but rejects authentic spirituality. Places burdens on followers to act a certain way, dress an acceptable way, and have an acceptable lifestyle, but they often demonstrate licentiousness, greed, and uncontrolled addictions behind closed doors.
Use exclusivity for allegiance. Followers close to the leader or leaders feel like lucky insiders. Everyone else is on the outside, though they often long to be in that inner circle. If someone on the inner circle speaks up about abuses, lapses in character, illegal acts, or strong-arming, that insider immediately moves to an outsider. Fear of losing their special status often impedes insiders from speaking up.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#92
Abusers

I remember at work various colleagues started to attack me about a certain attitude and
approach. Though they were quite rude and unfair, it struck me that something in my approach
seemed to give them the idea of this was a good idea.

I thought, 50% of every communication I am in total control of, so what can I change.
Is there anything I am doing which is triggering this response?

I then changed what I said and how I said it. It was then surprising to find their approach
changed, because I had taken away whatever it was they thought they were getting at.
So in every situation there are options, and opportunities, where we can take control.

Abusers main desire is to have control, and bring about a result which they dominate.
One can give them everything they want but without this domination, but within the
constraints of their authority. Normally dominating approaches to leading are counter
productive and destroy organisations rather than builds them up. But so many often
suffer this from bitter and angry people out for some kind of revenge.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#93
Warning Signs of Spiritual Abuse, Part One | CBN.com

From the article:

"Jesus said:

"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light" (Matthew 11:28-30).

A healthy church should produce peace and rest for your soul. Establishing healthy spiritual relationships will always be a challenge, but the process will prevent you from becoming weary and worn, trying to jump through religious hoops that promise God's acceptance and love. If, in order to gain the acceptance of its leaders, your church constantly requires more and more of your life with no end in sight -- and little encouragement along the way -- then you may want to re-examine the church you are attending.

God's intention all along has been for the local church to be healthy, life giving, and Christ centered. But because He has chosen to use frail, sin-prone individuals to lead His church, there is always the possibility that a local congregation can fall into deception or unhealthy spiritual patterns."
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#94
10 Ways to Spot Spiritual Abuse | Mary DeMuth

Key quotes from article



Profile of spiritual abusers
I agree with this woman's assessment. The other thing is that some believe that Jesus hates the teachings of the Nicolaitans of which some think it is the "leadership or clergy dominating or lording it over the faith of the laity."

Nicolaitans - Why does God HATE them?

Those that try to dominate your faith by demeaning others either through their supposed "lack of understanding the scriptures like they do" - "or you have not gone to the same type of teaching place that I have"..etc. This "lording it over others faith" is a form of spiritual abuse too.

The answer to me for those that were abused and for the abusers themselves is to preach and teach the grace and love and forgiveness of the Lord and we will have the proper "nutrients" for manifesting an exchanged life that is ours in Christ.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#95
Abusers

I remember at work various colleagues started to attack me about a certain attitude and
approach. Though they were quite rude and unfair, it struck me that something in my approach
seemed to give them the idea of this was a good idea.

I thought, 50% of every communication I am in total control of, so what can I change.
Is there anything I am doing which is triggering this response?

I then changed what I said and how I said it. It was then surprising to find their approach
changed, because I had taken away whatever it was they thought they were getting at.
So in every situation there are options, and opportunities, where we can take control.

Abusers main desire is to have control, and bring about a result which they dominate.
One can give them everything they want but without this domination, but within the
constraints of their authority. Normally dominating approaches to leading are counter
productive and destroy organisations rather than builds them up. But so many often
suffer this from bitter and angry people out for some kind of revenge.
Changing how we say things does help the situation. So does letting of of the idea that just because someone disagrees with you or speaks harshly they are your enemy and are automatically attacking you.

We are all imperfect people and we learn from one another how to interact.

If someone is yelling at you and you don't like it. How will yelling back teach the other person there is another option besides yelling?

Jesus told us to turn the other cheek and bless those who view themselves as our enemies. It is hard to bless someone you still hold anger and resentment towards. We have to forgive people who don't deserve it because God forgave us even though we did nothing to deserve it.
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#96
has spiritual abuse been defined?

let me define it for you


spiritual abuse is destroying the TRUE image of God and replacing it with a god that is not God

some of the effects of spiritual abuse are withdrawal, anger, coping mechanisms, distrust in God, confusion, deep emotional pain, and a loss of meaning in life and more of the same

irregardless of the differences in how people react, the aim, is to destroy the truth and replace it with a lie that becomes the truth

spiritually abused people act out and usually in a self destructive manner

it can be a long road back to whatever wilderness they went to live in

every single spiritually abused person will tell you, 'if God really loved me, He would not have allowed this to happen to me'..so again, the purpose is to destroy the true work of God in the person's life and replace it with a false god..

so, how do you help those who have spiritual abused? first, you shut up and listen and you might listen for a long time because their souls are in torment...they want to trust but they cannot because the core of their being has been violated

there are no quick fixes...the abuse causes the person to question everything and build defenses so that they will 'not get hurt again'...and this is for those who have managed to get away from their abusers or abusive church

in the end, only God can heal and put it all back together

remember...this is a person who does not really know God...He has become a figure in the background and there is a thick mist around the mind of the person who wants to be free but does not know how to get that way

true spiritual gifts are needed...REAL discernment, REAL ability to 'see' and the power of God working through a person to help those who need it...

and don't think you are that person...that person, is usually the one who has lived it and come out on the other side

and of course you have to forgive as someone already noted...if you don't forgive, that is the devil's 'hook' in you to continue with feelings of guilt, shame and powerlessness

there has not been one response on this thread from one person I would consider capable of saying anything I would care to listen to

what do you think Ariel?

I'm just asking her...no one else

ps...I am not in that place and have not been for years...but I recall the place very well...and how it was
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#97
It was not really well said Grace...it was lived...and not very well
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#98
It was not really well said Grace...it was lived...and not very well

And yet...we can be free now despite how we have handled it in the past......that gives great encouragement to others....:)
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#99
Wow..... 5 pages about all types of abuse, yet the #1 hasn't been mentioned.

The king of all abuses..... neglect.

Yes, other abuses exist, but for every child mistreated, there's about 10 - 20 neglected.

They are the ones who let their children run amok without discipline during the services. They are the ones whose parents demand some sort of church babysitting/program where they can drop off their little darlings to torment someone else.

These parents expect the children's ministry to perform miracles & raise their children & teach them the important things of the Bible.

Over 90% of these kids end up not becoming christians & leaving church..... while the congregation wonders what happened.

Our children need us parents to be the front line of spiritual training & discipline..... not the one that ends up bailing them outta jail.

Children sit in church with toys, cell phones, & games to keep them occupied, so we can hear the preacher.

I disciplined & taught my children to love & respect the Lord & His house & His leaders. My wife & I took turns taking the children "outside" when they were rowdy..... & it worked.

Today, both of my kids are christians that married christians; one married a preacher while the other one is a preacher. They are already both more successful than I am, living in good homes.

IMO we should raise our children, & not expect the church to do it. We should train them up in the way they should go, & when they're old they won't depart from it. To me that is the best fruit we can bring forth pleasing to God.:)
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
Wow..... 5 pages about all types of abuse, yet the #1 hasn't been mentioned.

The king of all abuses..... neglect.

Yes, other abuses exist, but for every child mistreated, there's about 10 - 20 neglected.

They are the ones who let their children run amok without discipline during the services. They are the ones whose parents demand some sort of church babysitting/program where they can drop off their little darlings to torment someone else.

These parents expect the children's ministry to perform miracles & raise their children & teach them the important things of the Bible.

Over 90% of these kids end up not becoming christians & leaving church..... while the congregation wonders what happened.

Our children need us parents to be the front line of spiritual training & discipline..... not the one that ends up bailing them outta jail.

Children sit in church with toys, cell phones, & games to keep them occupied, so we can hear the preacher.

I disciplined & taught my children to love & respect the Lord & His house & His leaders. My wife & I took turns taking the children "outside" when they were rowdy..... & it worked.

Today, both of my kids are christians that married christians; one married a preacher while the other one is a preacher. They are already both more successful than I am, living in good homes.

IMO we should raise our children, & not expect the church to do it. We should train them up in the way they should go, & when they're old they won't depart from it. To me that is the best fruit we can bring forth pleasing to God.:)


my assessment of this post?

another PERSONAL hobby horse

we'll send all the hurting people over your way and you and your wife can smack the devil out of them behind the shed


I don't think you get this...no wait...I KNOW you don't get this