I'm not sure if God classifies those as Christian or Jewish or Muslim or anything else. What matters is that the person repents of their sinful life and accept the shed blood of Jesus dying on the cross for them. Truthfully, all have been bad at one time or another. God does not judge with a scorecard.
How Bad Does a Person Have to be Before God no Longer Considers Them a Christian?
- Thread starter donlandy
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It all depends on what you were taught in your religious upbringing...to some if you smoke - you are not a Christian ( despite the fact that those that say this may be living in malice towards others )
To some if you play cards - you are going to hell....etc, etc, etc. Just put in there whatever our church taught us and it will fit the bill.
But Jesus says:
John 3:36 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
To some if you play cards - you are going to hell....etc, etc, etc. Just put in there whatever our church taught us and it will fit the bill.
But Jesus says:
John 3:36 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
[h=1]
If we are unfaithful to the one and only true living God, and we choose to abandon him and walk away from him, then we are in trouble, however as said earlier, if that person still feels guilt and feels as if they are doing wrong then God is still at work in them to turn them once again back to himself.
2 Peter 2:20-22English Standard Version (ESV)[/h] [SUP]20 [/SUP]For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. [SUP]22 [/SUP]What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
[h=1]Hebrews 10:26-31English Standard Version (ESV)[/h] [SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. [SUP]29 [/SUP]How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? [SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” [SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
If we are unfaithful to the one and only true living God, and we choose to abandon him and walk away from him, then we are in trouble, however as said earlier, if that person still feels guilt and feels as if they are doing wrong then God is still at work in them to turn them once again back to himself.
2 Peter 2:20-22English Standard Version (ESV)[/h] [SUP]20 [/SUP]For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. [SUP]22 [/SUP]What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
[h=1]Hebrews 10:26-31English Standard Version (ESV)[/h] [SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. [SUP]29 [/SUP]How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? [SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” [SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
I would also say that if a person walks away with zero remorse and stiff arms God without any feelings of guilt at all then I would also say that they were never a true child of God(and never will be most likely), because God does and has known his true children from "before the foundation of the world" and in that day God will tell them depart from me, I never knew you.
[h=1]Ephesians 1:4English Standard Version (ESV)[/h] [SUP]4 [/SUP]even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
[h=1]Matthew 7:21-23English Standard Version (ESV)[/h] [SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
[h=1]Ephesians 1:4English Standard Version (ESV)[/h] [SUP]4 [/SUP]even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
[h=1]Matthew 7:21-23English Standard Version (ESV)[/h] [SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
There is a whole thread that answers all of these scriptures when looked at in context with other scriptures.
You will find that Heb 10:26 is talking about Hebrews going back to the temple for sacrifices after hearing the knowledge of the truth. There is a vast difference between having knowledge of the truth and receiving the truth of Christ - which is receiving Him.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...e-once-saved-always-saved-29.html#post2931339
This one here talks about 2 Peter 2:1-22 in detail. You will see that in context it is talking about false prophets and false teachers - not believers.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138679-hebrews-6-4-6-not-seems-6.html#post2697956
You will find that Heb 10:26 is talking about Hebrews going back to the temple for sacrifices after hearing the knowledge of the truth. There is a vast difference between having knowledge of the truth and receiving the truth of Christ - which is receiving Him.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...e-once-saved-always-saved-29.html#post2931339
This one here talks about 2 Peter 2:1-22 in detail. You will see that in context it is talking about false prophets and false teachers - not believers.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138679-hebrews-6-4-6-not-seems-6.html#post2697956
Going back to the original question: Here is my answer
I think first of all that the basis of being a Christian is our faith in Christ: not our works. Works are a result of our faith in God.
Thus if a person ceases to have faith in Jesus Christ, it is at this point that God would "no longer consider them a Christian"
I think first of all that the basis of being a Christian is our faith in Christ: not our works. Works are a result of our faith in God.
Thus if a person ceases to have faith in Jesus Christ, it is at this point that God would "no longer consider them a Christian"
Riiiiiight..... only show him all of your teachings.
While you're at it, are you gonna tell him you believe in Joseph Prince? Because you believe JP, you're open to all types of false teachings, such as Word Of Faith, Prosperity Preaching, that christians don't have to confess their sins, etc.
If you're gonna tell him anything, then tell him everything.
While you're at it, are you gonna tell him you believe in Joseph Prince? Because you believe JP, you're open to all types of false teachings, such as Word Of Faith, Prosperity Preaching, that christians don't have to confess their sins, etc.
If you're gonna tell him anything, then tell him everything.
I do understand that one meaning of the Hebrew passage is that animal sacrifices are no longer effective, but I also believe that is very plainly said:
"[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries."
I do agree that if a person is one of the ones who God knew from before the foundation of the world, then the end result will be salvation. The trouble is that only God knows who those people are going to be, and even though everyone has access to the blood of Christ, God already knows who will and who won't accept. It's our choice, but God already knows what choices we will make.
And the verse in 2nd Peter simply says what it says.. no need to read any threads about it, I did go to elementary school therefore I don't need any help with the meaning of that. I don't need to see how someone creatively twisted the verse to suit themselves and their own lifestyle.
"[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries."
I do agree that if a person is one of the ones who God knew from before the foundation of the world, then the end result will be salvation. The trouble is that only God knows who those people are going to be, and even though everyone has access to the blood of Christ, God already knows who will and who won't accept. It's our choice, but God already knows what choices we will make.
And the verse in 2nd Peter simply says what it says.. no need to read any threads about it, I did go to elementary school therefore I don't need any help with the meaning of that. I don't need to see how someone creatively twisted the verse to suit themselves and their own lifestyle.
The word says; He knew us before we was born. He knows all, so if He has always known us, obedient, or not obedient. Then He has always known if we are a believer or a unbeliever. Just as He has always known if we are going to enter the gates or not. God knows all, and when He knows you are His, then you are His.
Yep...reject Christ's sacrifice for sins and there is no hope for anyone. It is a fearful thing to be in the hands of God without being in Christ. Our Father is awesome and mighty in so many ways that we can't fathom it.
God so loved the world ..that He gave ..for everyone - Christ.
So, in the meantime we beg people to be reconciled to God so that they too may live because in His mind He was in Christ reconciling them to Himself.
2 Corinthians 5:18-21 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
God so loved the world ..that He gave ..for everyone - Christ.
So, in the meantime we beg people to be reconciled to God so that they too may live because in His mind He was in Christ reconciling them to Himself.
2 Corinthians 5:18-21 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
D
Lessee,
-- He saved an accomplice to murder and made him one of the best known apostles.
-- He saved a commander at a concentration camp.
-- He saved gang members.
-- He saved druggies, smokers, whiffers, pimps, whores, gamblers, rapists, murderers, mass murderers...
-- He's saved buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, rastafarians, Quakers, Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians, Baptists, nondenoms, atheists, agnostics, New Agers, Satanists...
Hmmmm, you got me.
I can't think of any type of degenerate he hasn't saved.
The problem you may be having is thinking we have any part in being saved. We didn't. Didn't even want it. He saved us anyway.
Now, sanctification? That's a different story. That's a two-way street where we must persevere. Then, again? If we don't? He didn't really save us to begin with.
-- He saved an accomplice to murder and made him one of the best known apostles.
-- He saved a commander at a concentration camp.
-- He saved gang members.
-- He saved druggies, smokers, whiffers, pimps, whores, gamblers, rapists, murderers, mass murderers...
-- He's saved buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, rastafarians, Quakers, Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians, Baptists, nondenoms, atheists, agnostics, New Agers, Satanists...
Hmmmm, you got me.
I can't think of any type of degenerate he hasn't saved.
The problem you may be having is thinking we have any part in being saved. We didn't. Didn't even want it. He saved us anyway.
Now, sanctification? That's a different story. That's a two-way street where we must persevere. Then, again? If we don't? He didn't really save us to begin with.