Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004
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Why did you dodge my question? Do you believe that you live a sinless, without fault of defect, flawless, absolutely perfect life (exactly as Jesus lived) 100% of the time? YES or NO. I am not arguing in favor of sin, but at the same time, I am not suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness either (1 John 1:8-10).
W
You are like Elimas the sorcerer whom Paul blinded for a season, in that you are forever learning but somehow never coming to the knowledge of the truth...Also please clarify what sins you mean..........IF you are speaking of the vile sins of th flesh that will disqualify you from the kingdom yes. Sins of ignorance etc. no.. are you still engaged in the sins of abomination before God?.Or do you just commit adultery etc. less, and less, as time goes by?.Please clarify yourself...And please dispense with this sinless perfection strawman, for it is quite immature and childish.. i wonder if you really have any idea of the vain arguments that proceed forth from your mouth..
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W
Was Zechariah in Luke 1, of whom God said was BLAMELESS keeping all the commandments of God mythical scripture to you? Keep inb mind the bible proves Zechariah had sins of ignorance, so God must have ment something else when He said that he was perfect. it doesn't mean he was as perfect as Jesus, but that he was morally upright and refrained from the vile sins of the flesh that are despicable to God (stealing, lying, adultery, all forms of pornia,idolatry, murder, gossiping, bearing false witness, to destroy someone character, profane language, calling evil good, certainly we can all refrain from such things, no? Zechorias and Elizabeth did but we cant? Cain could but we cant? Joseph did but we cant? Daniel did but we cant? Yes all of the mentioned still needed a Savior, and none of them were as perfect as Jesus. That's NOT what biblical perfection is.............hope this helps
W
John and Paul were quite specific as to which sins were for chastisement, and which sins would send you to hell,,,There is a big difference..again not all sins are the same, (or sins in general as you say it), and lumping them all together for the purpose of continuing in the vile sins of the flesh that Paul said would send you to hell is a scapegoat to bring others down to your level of sinning..It seems to appear that their is still guile in your heart that wasn't purged out in repentance.
Being perfect is simply being morally upright, not being as perfect as Jesus..Your vain arguments are making you look foolish...I need not say anymore, I'm not here to engage with the foolish at heart. I put you on IGNORE......
Being perfect is simply being morally upright, not being as perfect as Jesus..Your vain arguments are making you look foolish...I need not say anymore, I'm not here to engage with the foolish at heart. I put you on IGNORE......
W
Mailmandan: John and Paul were quite specific as to which sins were for chastisement, and which sins would send you to hell,,,There is a big difference..again not all sins are the same, (or sins in general as you say it), and lumping them all together for the purpose of continuing in the vile sins of the flesh that Paul said would send you to hell is a scapegoat to bring others down to your level of sinning..It seems to appear that their is still guile in your heart that wasn't purged out in repentance.
Being perfect is simply being morally upright, not being as perfect as Jesus..Your vain arguments are making you look foolish...I need not say anymore, I'm not here to engage with the foolish at heart. I put you on IGNORE......sorry about the double post, my mistake
Being perfect is simply being morally upright, not being as perfect as Jesus..Your vain arguments are making you look foolish...I need not say anymore, I'm not here to engage with the foolish at heart. I put you on IGNORE......sorry about the double post, my mistake
Zacharias and Elisabeth were not righteous (in right standing with God) through their own goodness (Isaiah 64:6; Romans 3:10), but their faith was accounted to them as righteousness, just as with Noah (Hebrews 11:7) and Abraham (Romans 4:3). Even under the Old Testament, the only way to be in right standing with God was by faith (Habbakuk 2:4; Galatians 3:11). No one could keep the law perfectly (Romans 3:23), so faith had to be put in the mercy and forgiveness of God which was illustrated by the Old Testament blood sacrifices. The Jewish nation as a whole lacked the understanding of justification by faith (Romans10:3-9) and had fallen into the deception that they could be righteous by their keeping the law (Mark 10:17). You will notice here in verse 6 that the scripture doesn't say that Zacharias and Elisabeth were sinless but rather blameless. Through their faith in the blood sacrifices (which were symbolic of Christ), God put the blame for their sins on the Lamb (John 1:29). They accepted God's way and sought to live by it, but without FAITH, they could not be considered blameless by committing theirselves to walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord.
So if a Christian ever commits a sin that is not a sin of ignorance, such a Christian is disqualified from heaven? Perfect (teleioi). The word comes from telo, end, goal, limit. This may refer to the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father, yet the word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children. Absolute perfection for us will not become a reality until Christ returns and then we will be made perfect with Christ. Yet teleioi is also used to refer to the maturity of an adult, which is the end or aim to which the child points. Thus it denotes those who have attained the full development of innate powers, in contrast to those who are still in the undeveloped state (children).
None of them were as perfect as Jesus and neither are we.
So if a Christian ever commits a sin that is not a sin of ignorance, such a Christian is disqualified from heaven? Perfect (teleioi). The word comes from telo, end, goal, limit. This may refer to the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father, yet the word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children. Absolute perfection for us will not become a reality until Christ returns and then we will be made perfect with Christ. Yet teleioi is also used to refer to the maturity of an adult, which is the end or aim to which the child points. Thus it denotes those who have attained the full development of innate powers, in contrast to those who are still in the undeveloped state (children).
None of them were as perfect as Jesus and neither are we.
That is some harsh judgment in which you are not qualified to make. God is my judge, not you.
I'm talking about sin in general, any sin. My question in regards to sinless perfection is not a strawman. You sound immature and childish AND very judgmental.
That statement is the epitome of irony.
I'm talking about sin in general, any sin. My question in regards to sinless perfection is not a strawman. You sound immature and childish AND very judgmental.
That statement is the epitome of irony.
I would hope at the very least some would be like the Bereans and check things out for themselves.
In Galatians 5:19-21, we read - Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. The idea of "practice" is to perform repeatedly or habitually and thus describes repetition or continuous action. Paul uses the present tense which describes the practice as habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life. Those who practice such sins demonstrate that they have not been born of God.
Another judgment call that you are not qualified to make. Being judgmental, mean spirited and self righteous will get you nowhere with me and BTY any sin will send you to hell APART FROM THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.
You are the master of irony.
Proverbs 26:4 - Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him.
Go right ahead and put me on ignore. I am not impressed with your judgmental, mean spirited, self righteous attitude.
Another judgment call that you are not qualified to make. Being judgmental, mean spirited and self righteous will get you nowhere with me and BTY any sin will send you to hell APART FROM THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.
You are the master of irony.
Proverbs 26:4 - Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him.
Go right ahead and put me on ignore. I am not impressed with your judgmental, mean spirited, self righteous attitude.
Just what we need on Christian Chat. Another judgmental, mean spirited, self righteous person to scold and condemn all those who don't agree with their false teachings.
I recently left the "Bible-Discussion" website because I was fed up with the toxic environment there. That forum had just about been completely hi jacked by false teachers, including sinless perfectionists, anti-Trinitarians, works salvationists etc.. and it was nothing but a war zone!
No love, no edification, just false teachings, false accusations, straw man arguments, argue, argue, argue!
Thank God for my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat who stand up for the truth and against false teachers.
I recently left the "Bible-Discussion" website because I was fed up with the toxic environment there. That forum had just about been completely hi jacked by false teachers, including sinless perfectionists, anti-Trinitarians, works salvationists etc.. and it was nothing but a war zone!
No love, no edification, just false teachings, false accusations, straw man arguments, argue, argue, argue!
Thank God for my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat who stand up for the truth and against false teachers.
W
I have said MANY times I still have sins of ignorance, not perfect in all knowledge, moments of anger, human flaws in that I was made subject to vanity for the divine purpose of the Creator who knows what is best for mankind, but I have departed from the vile sins of the flesh that will destroy my soul. Have you?
Just what we need on Christian Chat. Another judgmental, mean spirited, self righteous person to scold and condemn all those who don't agree with their false teachings.
I recently left the "Bible-Discussion" website because I was fed up with the toxic environment there. That forum had just about been completely hi jacked by false teachers, including sinless perfectionists, anti-Trinitarians, works salvationists etc.. and it was nothing but a war zone!
No love, no edification, just false teachings, false accusations, straw man arguments, argue, argue, argue!
Thank God for my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat who stand up for the truth and against false teachers.
I recently left the "Bible-Discussion" website because I was fed up with the toxic environment there. That forum had just about been completely hi jacked by false teachers, including sinless perfectionists, anti-Trinitarians, works salvationists etc.. and it was nothing but a war zone!
No love, no edification, just false teachings, false accusations, straw man arguments, argue, argue, argue!
Thank God for my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat who stand up for the truth and against false teachers.
I thought you put me on ignore? If you are asking me if I practice such sins found in Galatians 5:19-21 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, the answer is NO. Notice that Paul addresses such people in 1 Corinthians 6:9 as "unrighteous" which means they are not believers/not saved. Paul also goes on to say in verse 11 (talking about believers) - And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
You seem eager to accuse others of not departing from vile sins and judging them as condemned, yet judging yourself as "holier than thou." Reminds me of the Pharisees.
If you are asking me if I practice such sins found in Galatians 5:19-21 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, the answer is NO. Notice that Paul addresses such people in 1 Corinthians 6:9 as "unrighteous" which means they are not believers/not saved. Paul also goes on to say in verse 11 (talking about believers) - And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.You seem eager to accuse others of not departing from vile sins and judging them as condemned, yet judging yourself as "holier than thou." Reminds me of the Pharisees.
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