What is the true meaning of Colossians 2?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#1
So this passage is a very interesting one and I wanted to get different views and state my own;

Colossians 2:16-23, "16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ; 18 let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and [in] worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh, 19 and not holding the head, from which all the body — through the joints and bands gathering supply, and being knit together — may increase with the increase of God. 20 If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances? 2 thou may not touch, nor taste, nor handle — 22 which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men, 23 which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honor, unto a satisfying of the flesh."
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#2
16 “Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,”


For Doing or not doing? Or Both? If we look at this verse in the context of the time and culture it was written in we may have an idea. The Pharisees and Sadducee were of the ruling class religiously, socially and economically. After captive Israyl left Babylon the calendar was altered and so were the Feast Days of YHWH, so if an individual did not keep a Feast Day according to what the Pharisees said they could be killed…. The prophet Zecharyah was killed over this very matter and Yahshua Himself mentioned the murder; 16 “Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,”


17 “which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ;”


Coming things, and this translation is true the konie Greek. What coming things? The prophecies of YHWH or the “shadow”, the 7 Feast Days are prophetic shadow pictures, the first 3 of the Messiah’s work as a Lamb, the last 4 of His return as a Lion.


18 “let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and [in] worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh,”


Are prophecies about the Messiah things of the flesh?


I want to focus on 20-23, as to see context. Shaul/Paul, in nearly all his thoughts talks about a topic and then goes on to explain, he uses an advanced style of writing as his (worldly) education was beyond that of the other NT writers.


20 If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances?


So he is saying if your dead to the world why would you subject yourself to its (the worlds) ordinances. To think he is saying if your dead to the world then why would you subject yourself to Feast Days of YHWH would make no sense, for the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day Sabbath and the Feast Days of YHWH are not worldly, they are from YHWH, but Paul explains it further.


21 thou may not touch, nor taste, nor handle


The pharisees had a law (man made) in which you could not eat meat and cheese together, or even within 4 hours of each other. Now this is not in YHWH's Law. The origin, from which they made their own law does however come from YHWH's Law; as it says “don't boil a baby goat in its mothers milk” (3 times) (the local pagans had this as a religious practice YHWH did not want His people to partake in these evil pagan practices) the pharisees using something called "midrashic interpretation" the pharisees looked at it and said well since it says this three times it must meant three different things. SO THEY MADE UP THEIR OWN LAW, that was completely disconnected from Scripture, is not a part of Scripture and enforced it as Law. SO Paul’s context, customs and understanding is much different from our modern day perspective.


22 which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men,


So here very clearly he states "after the commandments of men", now if you read from 16-20 you see he stays on topic, and 20 says basically if your dead to the world why do what the world tells you to do? So we can see he is still on this topic from v16. In this verse 22, he says "which are all for destruction", how does Sabbath lead to destruction and it would also have to be a "commandment of men" if there is any commandment that is the farthest thing possible from being a "commandment of men" it is the Sabbath, it was from creation and it shows the AUTHORITY of the Creator, the mark of the Creator, as He rested on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day of creation. Also tying a "commandment of men" to destruction Romans 8:13, "For if you live according to the commandments of men, you will die; but if, through the Spirit, you put to death; put an end to, the evildoing of mankind, you will live."


23 which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honor, unto a satisfying of the flesh.


The act of pleasing the pharisees by following their Talmud/heir man made laws, would be “after the commandments and teachings of men v22” and “a satisfying of the flesh v23.”


For the pharisees would have a problem if you did things according to YHWH's instruction and not their Talmud/man made law, called the “ORAL LAW”, and this is shown in the Scriptures: MATT 15, 23, mark 7:7-9, etc If you kept the Sabbath NOT according to the Talmud but according to the Scriptures the Pharisees would have a problem.


Matt 12:10 & 12, "And, behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. Then they asked Him, saying; Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath Days?--so that they might accuse Him."And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."


The "Rabbis" also made their own holidays, Haunnaka and Rosh Hashanna and more. when they left Babylon they even changed the names of the moons (months), and Rosh hashanna even changes the time of the new year from the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] month to the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] month, this is clearly a “commandments and ordinances of men”. The calendar YHWH created is YHWH's calendar, the one who created it created the heavens and the earth, thus it is calculated by the heavens, the moon in this case. Our current calendar is the Gregorian calendar, which is an updated version of the Babylonian calendar. YHWH said the days end and begin at sunset, not the "Rabbis/Pharisees/Etc." Since the Pharisees/"Rabbis" made up their own, times/ways to keep their own made up "feast days", if you did not submit to the Pharisees they would seek to have you brought to trial, beat, imprisoned, or even killed you for not honoring their non-Scriptural days based in man’s tradition. The Talmud tells a story of Zacharyah, father of John the baptist, and OT prophet, disagreeing and wanting to follow YHWH Feast Days according to the Scriptures, and the head Pharisees told him, on threat of death, to appear in public on a Scriptural Feast Day in a way that the man can not honor YHWH as prescribed in the Scriptures, thus commanding him to disobey YHWH. They killed him for seeking to honor YHWH, His way and not their man made religious tradition. Yahshua spoke of this, but many have no clue of the history behind it;


Mat 23:35, "so that on you should come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Heḇel to the blood of Zeḵaryah, son of Bereḵyah, whom you murdered between the Dwelling Place and the altar."


2Chron 24:20-21, "Then the Spirit of the Most High came upon Zeḵaryah son of Yehoyaḏa the priest, who stood above the people, and said to them, “Thus said the Most High, ‘Why are you transgressing the commands of יהוה, and do not prosper? Because you have forsaken יהוה, He has forsaken you. And they conspired against him, and at the command of the sovereign they stoned him with stones in the courtyard of the House of יהוה."


Rosh Hashanah (New Year)
Rosh Hashanah occurs on the first and second days of Tishri (the 7th moon or month, YHWH's year starts in the 1st month). In Hebrew, Rosh Hashanah means, literally, "head of the year" or "first of the year." Rosh Hashanah is commonly known as the Jewish New Year.


How does the year start in the 7th month? According to the Scriptures and YHWH's calendar the year starts in the 1st month, Abib.


Chanukkah
On the 25th of Kislev are the days of Chanukkah, which are eight... these were appointed a Festival with Hallel [prayers of praise] and thanksgiving. -Shabbat 21b, Babylonian Talmud


Tu B'Shevat
There are four new years... the first of Shevat is the new year for trees according to the ruling of Beit Shammai; Beit Hillel, however, places it on the fifteenth of that month. -Mishnah Rosh Hashanah 1:1


Purim
Is one of the most joyous and fun holidays on the Jewish calendar. It commemorates a time when the Jewish people living in Persia were saved from extermination.


Tisha B'Av
Five misfortunes befell our fathers... on the ninth of Av....On the ninth of Av it was decreed that our fathers should not enter the [Promised] Land, the Temple was destroyed the first and second time, Bethar was captured and the city [Jerusalem] was ploughed up. -Mishnah Ta'anit 4:6


Feasts that YHWH says should be kept for all generations are promoted in the NT:


1 Corinthians 5:7-8, "Therefore, purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new batch, since you are unleavened. For truly Yahshua our Passover was sacrificed for us. Therefore, let us keep the Feast, not with bold leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."


keep the Feast is word #1858. heortazo, Heortazo: I keep a feast, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: heortazo, Phonetic Spelling: (heh-or-tad'-zo)
Short Definition: I keep a feast, Definition: I take part in a festival, keep a feast
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#3
1 cor 9:[SUP]19 [/SUP]For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; [SUP]20 [/SUP]and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law,[SUP][c][/SUP] that I might win those who are under the law; [SUP]21 [/SUP]to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God,[SUP][d][/SUP] but under law toward Christ[SUP][e][/SUP]), that I might win those who are without law; [SUP]22 [/SUP]to the weak I became as[SUP][f][/SUP] weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.

IE. If paul is around jews, He will act as if he is a jew. If he is around people of the law He will act as they do.

ie. Don't judge people who follow the law by offending them, Follow the law. so by chance you may win them to Christ.

if paul is around gentiles. not under the law. He acts as them. Don't offend gentiles by trying to force law on them. It is better if one gentile comes to Christ because he was not offended, than no gentile come to Christ because you offended them all.

Hebrew roots. if you want to follow law. Feel free. This continued trying to justify your law living to others. is for the birds.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#4
Everything in the Old Covenant is a shadow of the real substance which is Christ Himself. Everything speaks of Christ Himself.

To follow Jewish ordinances set up in the Old Testament which are a shadow of the real thing are not for the New Covenant Christian church.

Following Old Covenant things is like taking a picture of your wife and kissing her picture when she is there in front of you. The real wife is not there to draw you back to the picture of her. No, the picture is there to bring you to her when she was not with you.

So, it is with Christ. Everything in the OT was a shadow or type of the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ is with us now and in us forever.

To me if people that are from a Jewish background and are believers in Christ now and that is a part of their cultural upbringing and they use these festivals and new moons and Sabbaths to remind them of Christ and all that He has done - then they can observe whatever they want.

But for Gentiles that want to make themselves Jewish and believe they need to "observe" these things is a perversion of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#5
Everything in the Old Covenant is a shadow of the real substance which is Christ Himself. Everything speaks of Christ Himself.

To follow Jewish ordinances set up in the Old Testament which are a shadow of the real thing are not for the New Covenant Christian church.

Following Old Covenant things is like taking a picture of your wife and kissing her picture when she is there in front of you. The real wife is not there to draw you back to the picture of her. No, the picture is there to bring you to her when she was not with you.

So, it is with Christ. Everything in the OT was a shadow or type of the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ is with us now and in us forever.

To me if people that are from a Jewish background and are believers in Christ now and that is a part of their cultural upbringing and they use these festivals and new moons and Sabbaths to remind them of Christ and all that He has done - then they can observe whatever they want.

But for Gentiles that want to make themselves Jewish and believe they need to "observe" these things is a perversion of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Well said. I would even add that people from Jewish backround also have to leave many Jewish customs to get to Christianity. Because their culture is, in its basis, antichristian.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#6
So this passage is a very interesting one and I wanted to get different views and state my own;

Colossians 2:16-23, "16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ; 18 let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and [in] worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh, 19 and not holding the head, from which all the body — through the joints and bands gathering supply, and being knit together — may increase with the increase of God. 20 If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances? 2 thou may not touch, nor taste, nor handle — 22 which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men, 23 which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honor, unto a satisfying of the flesh."

It means enjoy your bacon or not, and enjoy worshipping when and where you like. And don't let anyone judge you either way you go.
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#7
Observing the sabbath day is over is what that mean. Let's look at Jesus sayings about why His disciples were blameless on gathering the corn on the sabbath day.

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.[SUP]2 [/SUP]But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.[SUP]3 [/SUP]But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;[SUP]4 [/SUP]How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?[SUP]5 [/SUP]Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?[SUP]6 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Jesus had given TWO examples on how saints had DEFILED the sabbath day but they were blameless BECAUSE they were in the Temple. Then Jesus said that in this place where He was speaking, someone greater than the temple was here; meaning Jesus Christ, and that was why His disciples were blameless.

Here's why believers today are blameless for not keeping the sabbath day and thus defiling the sabbath day.

1 Corinthians 6:[SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?[SUP]20 [/SUP]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2 Corinthians 13:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

As saved believers, our bodies has become the Temple of the Holy Spirit and with Jesus Christ in us and with us always is why every believer is blameless for not keeping the sabbath day or any holy days.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#8
I agree Enow...I too have written about this very thing.

Have we ever read where Jesus said that the priests who stand in the temple - break the Sabbath which is in the Law?...or that David and his men ate of the bread which was in the temple?

Matthew 12:2-6 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath."

[SUP]3 [/SUP] But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,

[SUP]4 [/SUP] how heentered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?

[SUP]5 [/SUP] "Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?

[SUP]6 [/SUP] "But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.

Why were the priest not breaking the Sabbath law - because they were in the temple. Why did David be able to eat of the bread? Because he was in the temple.

This is why the true believer in Christ will not be breaking any Sabbath law because we are in the temple. Know you not that you are the temple of God?

Those that are in the temple are not breaking the Sabbath law by doing work because we are in Christ. He is the true temple of God as we are in union with Him and are one in the spirit.

Until we understand the reality of our union with Christ and what that means - we will be resorting to going back to the Law and trying to live by our own flesh and we are exchanging Christ Himself for the law
. This is committing spiritual adultery - Romans 7:1-6
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#9
I agree Enow...I too have written about this very thing.

Have we ever read where Jesus said that the priests who stand in the temple - break the Sabbath which is in the Law?...or that David and his men ate of the bread which was in the temple?

Matthew 12:2-6 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath."

[SUP]3 [/SUP] But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,

[SUP]4 [/SUP] how heentered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?

[SUP]5 [/SUP] "Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?

[SUP]6 [/SUP] "But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.

Why were the priest not breaking the Sabbath law - because they were in the temple. Why did David be able to eat of the bread? Because he was in the temple.

This is why the true believer in Christ will not be breaking any Sabbath law because we are in the temple. Know you not that you are the temple of God?

Those that are in the temple are not breaking the Sabbath law by doing work because we are in Christ. He is the true temple of God as we are in union with Him and are one in the spirit.

Until we understand the reality of our union with Christ and what that means - we will be resorting to going back to the Law and trying to live by our own flesh and we are exchanging Christ Himself for the law
. This is committing spiritual adultery - Romans 7:1-6
I used to think that way that we are not defiling the sabbath day, but when Jesus testified that the O.T. saints did defile the sabbath day, but were blameless because they were in the Temple, and so His disciples were defiling the sabbath day but because Jesus was with them, they are blameless.. which is why we are blameless now for not keeping the sabbath day because Jesus Christ is Lord over the sabbath day and not the sabbath day lord over Jesus Christ when the sabbath day was made for man and not man for the sabbath day.

With Jesus Christ within us always, we are blameless for not keeping the sabbath day. I think this is important because many believers refuse to accept that the law was done away with as Jesus said that He did not come to do away with the law, but fulfill. It is by Jesus Christ in us, is why we are blameless per the law of keeping the sabbath day which was under the Old Covenant in vanishing away in place of the New Covenant in Christ Jesus as He is bringing us to Heaven by His finished work on the cross.

Indeed, to say we still have to keep the sabbath day is to make the cross of Christ to no effect; as if what He had done on the cross was not good enough to have saved us. So either we rest in Him that we are saved, or believers are striving to keep the sabbath day and have yet to rest in Him that they are saved.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#10
What is the true meaning of Colossians 2?

Don't listen to folks who try to enslave you into keeping the old feasts days and a false sense of holiness and superiority to people who don't try and pretend to be Jewish, when they are not.

That the New Covenant that Jesus makes is not about feasts or weekly or monthly Sabbaths. The new covenant is about being born again and daily walking with the Holy Spirit.

It's not about giving just ten percent but being living sacrifices not one day a week, but every day, every moment of our lives..,.not 1/7 but 7/7 days. Not 10% but 100% of all our material worldly possessions and times.

We are all broken sinners in need of a savior.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#11
What is the true meaning of Colossians 2?

Don't listen to folks who try to enslave you into keeping the old feasts days and a false sense of holiness and superiority to people who don't try and pretend to be Jewish, when they are not.

That the New Covenant that Jesus makes is not about feasts or weekly or monthly Sabbaths. The new covenant is about being born again and daily walking with the Holy Spirit.

It's not about giving just ten percent but being living sacrifices not one day a week, but every day, every moment of our lives..,.not 1/7 but 7/7 days. Not 10% but 100% of all our material worldly possessions and times.

We are all broken sinners in need of a savior.



Who would call the Feasts of Yah "enslavement?” They are prophecies about the Messiah, 3 of which have already happened, the last for 4 are still to be fulfilled when He returns. Not understand these days helps one to be misled, understanding these days helps one understand the will and plan of Yah.


Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."


Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."

Also to accuse someone who believes in the forth Commandment as only giving the Creator one day a week is beyond a falsehood. One you have no clue how someone walks, so to make that appraisal upon people you do not know is judgmental and simply “confirmation bias” rather than truth seeking. So do you keep 7 days a week holy? Now to properly honor the Sabbath/keep a day holy, means it is “set-apart” for Yah. To properly set-apart a day to Yah is to not do your own work on it. Not that going to work, mowing the lawn, or watching a football game is evil, but it is not the work of Yah and if these are done a day is not set-apart to Yah. Now if we are talking about generally walking in His will daily, of course, but 6 days we shall work and the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] is set-apart.



What is the true meaning of Colossians 2?

Don't listen to folks who try to enslave you into keeping the old feasts days and a false sense of holiness and superiority to people who don't try and pretend to be Jewish, when they are not.



1. Paul kept Feast days*


2. Feast days are for all that follow Messiah, and have been since the Exodus*


3. There is no Jew and Gentile any longer, have you not read the “NT”*


*1. Paul Kept Sabbath and Feasts;
Acts 18:21, “But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.”
Acts 27:9, “Much time had been lost, and sailing had already become dangerous because by now it was after the Day of Atonement. So Paul warned them.”
Day of Atonement” is word #G3521 in Strong's Concordance – nésteia, nésteia: fasting, a fast, Original Word: νηστεία, ας, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: nésteia, Phonetic Spelling: (nace-ti'-ah), Short Definition: fasting, the day of atonement, Definition: fasting, the day of atonement.
Acts 20:16, “Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus to avoid spending time in the province of Asia, for he was in a hurry to reach Jerusalem, if possible, by the day of Pentecost.”


*2. Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to YHWH, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."


*3. Galatians 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

No the days we should not be enslaved to are those pagan worldly celebrtions...
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
51
#12
Who would call the Feasts of Yah "enslavement?” They are prophecies about the Messiah, 3 of which have already happened, the last for 4 are still to be fulfilled when He returns. Not understand these days helps one to be misled, understanding these days helps one understand the will and plan of Yah.


Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."


Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."

Also to accuse someone who believes in the forth Commandment as only giving the Creator one day a week is beyond a falsehood. One you have no clue how someone walks, so to make that appraisal upon people you do not know is judgmental and simply “confirmation bias” rather than truth seeking. So do you keep 7 days a week holy? Now to properly honor the Sabbath/keep a day holy, means it is “set-apart” for Yah. To properly set-apart a day to Yah is to not do your own work on it. Not that going to work, mowing the lawn, or watching a football game is evil, but it is not the work of Yah and if these are done a day is not set-apart to Yah. Now if we are talking about generally walking in His will daily, of course, but 6 days we shall work and the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] is set-apart.






1. Paul kept Feast days*


2. Feast days are for all that follow Messiah, and have been since the Exodus*


3. There is no Jew and Gentile any longer, have you not read the “NT”*


*1. Paul Kept Sabbath and Feasts;
Acts 18:21, “But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.”
Acts 27:9, “Much time had been lost, and sailing had already become dangerous because by now it was after the Day of Atonement. So Paul warned them.”
Day of Atonement” is word #G3521 in Strong's Concordance – nésteia, nésteia: fasting, a fast, Original Word: νηστεία, ας, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: nésteia, Phonetic Spelling: (nace-ti'-ah), Short Definition: fasting, the day of atonement, Definition: fasting, the day of atonement.
Acts 20:16, “Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus to avoid spending time in the province of Asia, for he was in a hurry to reach Jerusalem, if possible, by the day of Pentecost.”


*2. Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to YHWH, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."


*3. Galatians 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

No the days we should not be enslaved to are those pagan worldly celebrtions...
Hi Hizikyah,

God's covenant with Abraham was not the Siniatic covenant, it was grace. The covenant of grace is dispensed in 2 different ways in scripture, the first by way of types and shadows which points to the greater and better..In Jesus. Therefore Salvation in scripture has always been by grace through Faith. We see this in greater detail from the progressive revelation God provides in Scripture, from the Fall in paradise to Jesus.

All the types and shadows that pointed to Jesus have been fulfilled in Jesus, we no longer are under the 'school master/guardian' of the law -but rather the liberty which Christ bought (Galatians 3:24; 5:1-26). This is all under the covenant of grace.

Paul warns against going back to the 'works of the law', Galatians is all about the Christians liberty in Christ.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#13
Watch out for those that change scriptures and put in their own words.

Acts 18:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] but taking leave of them and saying, "I will return to you again if God wills," he set sail from Ephesus.

Acts 27:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When considerable time had passed and the voyage was now dangerous, since even the fast was already over, Paul began to admonish them,

3383. [FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]νηστεία[/FONT] [FONT="Gentium" !important]nēsteia[/FONT] noun

Fasting, going without food, going hungry; starving.

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Lambda-Omicron.

Paul said he would act like a Jew to win those that are Jews. He also said he would act like a Gentile to win those that are Gentiles. Paul did not keep the feasts of the Old Covenant in the way that some extreme Hebrew Roots believers advocate.

Acts 20:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus so that he would not have to spend time in Asia; for he was hurrying to be in Jerusalem, if possible, on the day of Pentecost.


 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#14
Hi Hizikyah,

God's covenant with Abraham was not the Siniatic covenant, it was grace. The covenant of grace is dispensed in 2 different ways in scripture, the first by way of types and shadows which points to the greater and better..In Jesus. Therefore Salvation in scripture has always been by grace through Faith. We see this in greater detail from the progressive revelation God provides in Scripture, from the Fall in paradise to Jesus.

All the types and shadows that pointed to Jesus have been fulfilled in Jesus, we no longer are under the 'school master/guardian' of the law -but rather the liberty which Christ bought (Galatians 3:24; 5:1-26). This is all under the covenant of grace.

Paul warns against going back to the 'works of the law', Galatians is all about the Christians liberty in Christ.
Are you saying all the Feast days are already completed?

and

If I don't kill am I cursed because I am "under the works of the Law?"
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#15
Watch out for those that change scriptures and put in their own words.

Acts 18:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] but taking leave of them and saying, "I will return to you again if God wills," he set sail from Ephesus.

Acts 27:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When considerable time had passed and the voyage was now dangerous, since even the fast was already over, Paul began to admonish them,

3383. νηστεία nēsteia noun

Fasting, going without food, going hungry; starving.

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Lambda-Omicron.

Paul said he would act like a Jew to win those that are Jews. He also said he would act like a Gentile to win those that are Gentiles. Paul did not keep the feasts of the Old Covenant in the way that some extreme Hebrew Roots believers advocate.

Acts 20:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus so that he would not have to spend time in Asia; for he was hurrying to be in Jerusalem, if possible, on the day of Pentecost.


1859. heorté Strong's Concordance
heorté: a feast, a festival​
Original Word: ἑορτή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: heorté
Phonetic Spelling: (heh-or-tay')
Short Definition: a festival, feast
Definition: a festival, feast, periodically recurring.NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
of uncertain derivation
Definition
a feast, a festival
NASB Translation
feast (23), festival (3).

Acts 18:21 Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
But as he left, he promised, "I will come back if it is God's will." Then he set sail from Ephesus.

New Living Translation
As he left, however, he said, "I will come back later, God willing." Then he set sail from Ephesus.

English Standard Version
But on taking leave of them he said, “I will return to you if God wills,” and he set sail from Ephesus.

Berean Study Bible
But as he left, he said, "I will come back to you again if God is willing." And he set sail from Ephesus.

Berean Literal Bible
but having taken leave and having said, "I will return to you again, God willing," he sailed from Ephesus,

New American Standard Bible
but taking leave of them and saying, "I will return to you again if God wills," he set sail from Ephesus.

King James Bible
But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
but he said good-bye and stated, "I'll come back to you again, if God wills." Then he set sail from Ephesus.

International Standard Version
As he told them goodbye, he said, "I will come back to you again if it is God's will." Then he set sail from Ephesus.

NET Bible
but said farewell to them and added, "I will come back to you again if God wills." Then he set sail from Ephesus,

New Heart English Bible
but taking his leave of them, and saying, "I will return again to you if God wills," he set sail from Ephesus.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
As he said, “I must always observe the coming feast in Jerusalem, and if God wills, I shall return again to you.” And he left Aqilaus and Priscilla in Ephesaus.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
As he left, he told them, "I'll come back to visit you if God wants me to." Paul took a boat from Ephesus

New American Standard 1977
but taking leave of them and saying, “I will return to you again if God wills,” he set sail from Ephesus.

Jubilee Bible 2000
but bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that comes in Jerusalem, but I will return again unto you, if God wills. And he sailed from Ephesus.

King James 2000 Bible
But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that comes in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God wills. And he sailed from Ephesus.

American King James Version
But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that comes in Jerusalem: but I will return again to you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

American Standard Version
but taking his leave of them, and saying, I will return again unto you if God will, he set sail from Ephesus.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But taking his leave, and saying: I will return to you again, God willing, he departed from Ephesus.

Darby Bible Translation
but bade them farewell, saying, [I must by all means keep the coming feast at Jerusalem]; I will return to you again, if God will: and he sailed away from Ephesus.

English Revised Version
but taking his leave of them, and saying, I will return again unto you, if God will, he set sail from Ephesus.

Webster's Bible Translation
But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return to you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Weymouth New Testament
but took leave of them with the promise, "I will return to you, God willing." So he set sail from Ephesus.

World English Bible
but taking his leave of them, and saying, "I must by all means keep this coming feast in Jerusalem, but I will return again to you if God wills," he set sail from Ephesus.

Young's Literal Translation
but took leave of them, saying, 'It behoveth me by all means the coming feast to keep at Jerusalem, and again I will return unto you -- God willing.' And he sailed from Ephesus,
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#16
The Sabbath, the day of rest is the seventh day after God was working during the six days to create. It was and still is a ceremonial law.

It always points back to foundation of the world (six days)

It can be seen were the ten commandment are listed in the two places, two different reasons, for the same rest..were the ten commandment are listed

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The second is used as a parable to point to the foundation of the world . Both pictures of the same salvation.

Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#18
In answer to your question...read Acts 15.
Acts 15: “The Jerusalem Council” - In this time one had to meet a set of requirements to even walk into a place of worship, this “council” was set to determine who should be let in or what they expected of their new converts. This was not an exhaustive guide or be all end all instructions. The words of the Messiah are our guide.

Acts 15 - 19 Therefore, my judgment is that we should not make difficulties for those of the Gentiles who turn to Yahweh, 20 But rather, write to them that they abstain from a defilements: such as godworship (worship of elohim), from all sexual impurity, from that which has been cooked with the blood still in it, and from bloodshed by violence--21 For Mosheh, from the earliest times, has in every city those who preach him, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath Day. 22, "Then the apostles, the elders, and all the called out ones decided to send chosen men oftheir own company to Antioch with Shaul and Barnabas--Yahdah surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers. 23 They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brothers, to the brothers who are ofthe Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you, and unsettled; brought confusion to, your minds through statements which are not authorized by us; 25 It seemed right to us, being gathered together with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Shaul: 26 Men who have risked their lives for the Name of our Savior, Yahshua Messiah. 27 Therefore, we have sent Yahdah and Silas, who will also tell you these same things by mouth. 28 For it was judged right by the Holy Spirit, and us, to put on you no more requirements, than those which are required in the Law of YHWH: 29 That you abstain from godworship (worship ofelohim), from bloodshed by violence, from things cooked with the blood still in them, and from all sexual impurity--from which you will do well to keep yourselves. Farewell! 30 So when they were sent off, they came to Antioch; and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the letter. 31 When they had read it, the people rejoiced for the consolation. 32 And Yahdah and Silas, who were themselves prophets, exhorted the brothers with many words, and strengthened and established them. 33 And after they had remained there for a time, they were sent back to the apostles by the brothers, with the blessing of Peace! (Verses 15:19,20,24, 29The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, Pages 457-458)

Acts 15:24 Parallel Verses

New International Version
We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.


New Living Translation
"We understand that some men from here have troubled you and upset you with their teaching, but we did not send them!


English Standard Version
Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions,


New American Standard Bible
"Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls,


King James Bible
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


Holman Christian Standard Bible
Because we have heard that some without our authorization went out from us and troubled you with their words and unsettled your hearts,


International Standard Version
We have heard that some men, coming from us without instructions from us, have said things to trouble you and have unsettled you.


NET Bible
Since we have heard that some have gone out from among us with no orders from us and have confused you, upsetting your minds by what they said,


Aramaic Bible in Plain English
We hear that men among us went out and have alarmed you with words and have subverted your souls, as they were saying, 'Be circumcised and keep The Law', which we have not commanded them.


GOD'S WORD® Translation
We have heard that some individuals who came from us have confused you with statements that disturb you. We did not authorize these men [to speak].


Jubilee Bible 2000
forasmuch as we have heard that certain ones who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised and keep the law, to whom we gave no such commandment,


King James 2000 Bible
Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment


American King James Version
For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment


American Standard Version
Forasmuch as we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;


Douay-Rheims Bible
Forasmuch as we have heard, that some going out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment:


Darby Bible Translation
Inasmuch as we have heard that some who went out from amongst us have troubled you by words, upsetting your souls, [saying that ye must be circumcised and keep the law]; to whom we gave no commandment;


English Revised Version
Forasmuch as we have heard that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;


Webster's Bible Translation
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain who went out from us, have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law; to whom we gave no such commandment:


Weymouth New Testament
As we have been informed that certain persons who have gone out from among us have disturbed you by their teaching and have unsettled your minds, without having received any such instructions from us;


World English Bible
Because we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law,' to whom we gave no commandment;


Young's Literal Translation
seeing we have heard that certain having gone forth from us did trouble you with words, subverting your souls, saying to be circumcised and to keep the law, to whom we did give no charge,


Acts 15:19 “Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the gentiles who are turning to Yah, Acts 15:20 but that we write to them to abstain from the defilements of idols, and from whoring, and from what is strangled, and from blood. Acts 15:21 “For from ancient generations Mosheh has, in every city, those proclaiming him – being read in the congregations every Sabbath.” Acts 15:22 Then it seemed good to the emissaries and elders, with all the assembly, to send chosen men from among them to Antioch with Sha’ul and Barnaḇah: Yehuḏah being called Barsabba, and Sila, leading men among the brothers, Acts 15:23 having written by their hand this: The emissaries and the elders and the brothers, To the brothers who are of the gentiles in Antioch, and Syria, and Kilikia: Greetings. Acts 15:24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your lives, to whom we gave no command –
Acts 15:25 it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnaḇah and Sha’ul,
Acts 15:26 men who have given up their lives for the Name of our Master יהושעMessiah.
Acts 15:27 We have therefore sent Yehuḏah and Sila, who are also confirming this by word of mouth.
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Set-apart Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessities: ,Acts 15:29 that you abstain from what is offered to idols, and blood, and what is strangled, and whoring. If you keep yourselves from these, you shall do well. Be strong! Acts 15:30 They, therefore, being sent off, went to Antioch. And having gathered the crowd together, they delivered the letter. Acts 15:31 And having read it, they rejoiced over its encouragement. Acts 15:32 And Yehuḏah and Sila, being themselves also prophets, encouraged the brothers with many words and strengthened them. Acts 15:33 And having spent some time, they were sent back in peace from the brothers to the emissaries.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#19
Acts 15: “The Jerusalem Council” - In this time one had to meet a set of requirements to even walk into a place of worship, this “council” was set to determine who should be let in or what they expected of their new converts. This was not an exhaustive guide or be all end all instructions. The words of the Messiah are our guide.
Matt 7:12, "So then, whatever you desire that others would do to and for you, even so do also to and for them, for this is (sums up) the Law and the Prophets."

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the Law."
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
51
#20
Are you saying all the Feast days are already completed?

and

If I don't kill am I cursed because I am "under the works of the Law?"

Q1 - refers to the ceremonial law. I don't understand by what you mean completed. They are no longer required of those in Christ.

Q2 - Why would not wanting to kill, put you under the curse of the law? (this refers to the moral law).