RE: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

[Naboth]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Having multiple wives can lead to the possibility of one being loved over another, but that is not always the case. We don't see any mention of favoritism for Gideon's wives, Lamech's wives, Esau's wives, Caleb's wives, Reheboam's wives, Abijah's wives, Joash's wives, etc. Are we to assume that because favoritism did occur a few times, that it always occurred? If you drive a car, you might get killed in a head-on collision. Many, many people have ended up that way. That doesn't make driving a car sinful. The possibility that one wife might be preferred, does not make it a fait accompli. The Bible tells us of what happens WHEN favoritism occurs, as a warning for those who practice polygamy, not to show such favoritism. God cares enough about the unloved wife, that he will make her fruitful, as a compensation for the lack of love she receives from her husband. Elkanah alludes to that when he asks Hannah if he was not better than ten sons. Favoritism is perhaps too strong. The condition facing Leah and Peninnah, was not that their husband loved the other wife more, but that he did not love them at all!

Having multiple wives, does not mean that if you love one wife too much, you will run out of love, and not have enough left for the other wife or wives. Natural desires for your wife or wives come and go, and often are dependent upon how well a particular wife treats her husband. However, there are built in attractions that a man can have for a woman, that simply take hold of him, which is why many men desert their wives for that woman. I see the woman my former worship pastor left his wife for, and it leaves me scratching my head. What on earth was the guy thinking? It's kind of like Ross deciding between Julie and Rachel on the TV show "Friends"!

The only thing that makes a man want to leave his wife for another woman, is the realization that he cannot have both women! If that were not the case, we would have fewer divorces, and fewer broken homes. That trumps any concern over who gets treated for favorably.

Well it's true there is not just favoritism at play in polygamy, but it is a major theme. Other things go afoot with it too. Even if the man is righteous, he will have problems. You'll have heirs disputes, you'll have whoredom both physical and spiritual, you'll have civil wars, you'll have a lot of bad stuff happen.

Gideon is a good example. Look how his kid Abimelech slew all his brothers, except for Jotham upon one stone.

Look at Lamech indeed, a totally evil murderer, a son of Cain, and the first polygamist.

Note Esau how he went from error to error. He displeased his parents marrying into the wrong race, and instead of amending his ways, what does he do? He goes and errs some more taking more wives from Ishmael's race. Trully Esau will never be the heir!

Look at Rehoboam, that evil man that caused Israel to err with all his whoredoms as the prophets speak again and again.

Caleb the son of Hezron may have been a good man or a normal man indeed, but not much is known of him. Though it seems of his wives he had children with only the one and when she died he married another. As for Jerioth, it is curious what became of her.

I think it generally holds true, even if it is a lil cheeky, you can't fully serve two masters at once. One will be favorited, the other will not.

Even outside the Bible it has been my general observation that the man or the woman that sleeps around with multiple people usually does not get on well in marriage. So many dramas to behold and they all stem from this one thing. The divorce rate in America sky-rocketed at the onset of the so-called Sexual Revolution. Our parents thought they were sexually liberated, but really all that happened was they were totally enslaved. Not that my generation of largely bastard children is any better. Where does the resentment and famous fury of the Millenials come from? Look homeward and you will find it. There is exceptions though, this is true, but you will find it is generally not a good idea to be sleeping around.


I think the ungodly men leave their wives because like Jesus said they have hard hearts. God hates divorce it is written. They don't really know love they have no natural affection. I do think it would be better to suffer in life and die as a virgin than to take more than one wife or to sleep with more than one woman, much less to divorce her. Though perhaps I am an old school romantic holding out for just one woman close to my heart. I reckon if I ever get the gift from God to have my one love I could not remarry even if I were fully justified to do so by death or divorce.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Well it's true there is not just favoritism at play in polygamy, but it is a major theme. Other things go afoot with it too. Even if the man is righteous, he will have problems. You'll have heirs disputes, you'll have whoredom both physical and spiritual, you'll have civil wars, you'll have a lot of bad stuff happen.

I am not arguing that a man will not have problems in polygamy, any more than a man who only marries one wife will have problems. Would you suggest that we do not marry, in order to avoid problems? I am not sure what you meant by whoredom, or what gives you such certainty that polygamy will lead to all those other problems that you listed. Seriously, the Civil Wars prediction is way out there!

Gideon is a good example. Look how his kid Abimelech slew all his brothers, except for Jotham upon one stone.

Esau planned to kill Jacob, and his parents were monogamous.

Look at Lamech indeed, a totally evil murderer, a son of Cain, and the first polygamist.

Look at Cain, a totally evil murderer, and as far as we know, monogamous.

Note Esau how he went from error to error. He displeased his parents marrying into the wrong race, and instead of amending his ways, what does he do? He goes and errs some more taking more wives from Ishmael's race. Trully Esau will never be the heir!

The wrong race? Canaanites had some wicked practices! It wasn't being from a particular race that was displeasing, but the evil practices of that culture. Scripture NEVER indicates that marrying Ishmael's descendants was an error, or displeasing to Esau's parents. You read something that is clearly not found in Scripture.

Look at Rehoboam, that evil man that caused Israel to err with all his whoredoms as the prophets speak again and again.

Which prophet? Perhaps you got Reheboam confused with Jereboam.

Caleb the son of Hezron may have been a good man or a normal man indeed, but not much is known of him. Though it seems of his wives he had children with only the one and when she died he married another. As for Jerioth, it is curious what became of her.

Caleb was a righteous man of faith, who along with Joshua, believed God would bring Israel victory over the Canaanites, and whom God rewarded for his faithfulness!

I think it generally holds true, even if it is a lil cheeky, you can't fully serve two masters at once. One will be favorited, the other will not.

The wife is not the master of the home.

Even outside the Bible it has been my general observation that the man or the woman that sleeps around with multiple people usually does not get on well in marriage. So many dramas to behold and they all stem from this one thing. The divorce rate in America sky-rocketed at the onset of the so-called Sexual Revolution. Our parents thought they were sexually liberated, but really all that happened was they were totally enslaved. Not that my generation of largely bastard children is any better. Where does the resentment and famous fury of the Millenials come from? Look homeward and you will find it. There is exceptions though, this is true, but you will find it is generally not a good idea to be sleeping around.

Sleeping around involves no responsibility.

I think the ungodly men leave their wives because like Jesus said they have hard hearts. God hates divorce it is written. They don't really know love they have no natural affection. I do think it would be better to suffer in life and die as a virgin than to take more than one wife or to sleep with more than one woman, much less to divorce her. Though perhaps I am an old school romantic holding out for just one woman close to my heart. I reckon if I ever get the gift from God to have my one love I could not remarry even if I were fully justified to do so by death or divorce.

You are entitled to your opinion regarding what you think is better, but don't claim that God condemns polygamy based on that opinion. I reckon God does not intend for you to have multiple wives. If He intended for everyone of the male gender to have multiple wives, He would have made at least twice as many females as males.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Caleb the son of Hezron may have been a good man or a normal man indeed, but not much is known of him. Though it seems of his wives he had children with only the one and when she died he married another. As for Jerioth, it is curious what became of her.

Caleb had a couple of concubines as well. Also, he was married to Azubah at the same time he was married to Jerioth.

 

[Angela53510]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Dan, for a Southern Baptist, you sure are confused. I went to a Southern Baptist Seminary., where I got my MDiv. I got ordained by a different denomination, because the SBC only rarely ordains women. (different thread!)

My point being, I was extensively exposed to SB history and theology. And never was polygamy mentioned as an option. In fact, it wasn't even mentioned, because it has nothing to do with SB, because it is totally and utterly wrong, no one would ever think someone deciding polygamy was actually an option in this century.

The only reason I can think of a man wanting to be polygamous is lust. Pure and unbridled lust. Polygamy happened in the OT, because there were so many less women than men, because of wars. Yes, many more men died in wars, than women died in childbirth. So there was a method to their madness. Plus, the women rarely had self-supporting jobs or income. It was a blessing to be married to any man that was willing to support you and their children, regardless of other wives.

This has got to be one of the stupidest threads that I have ever read. With an OP, lobbying for polytheism! Tell you what, take this up with your Southern Baptist pastor, and see what he says. I guarantee, if he is at all faithful to the Bible, and to the denomination, he will tell you exactly what everyone has been saying!

As for only a "bishop" or presbyter, being "the husband of one wife" what was the reason they were supposed to have only wife? Because that is the ideal situation in marriage. The leaders are modelling what the congregation are supposed to be believing and acting upon. So if the bishops must only have one wife, it is also expected of the others in the congregation. It was to establish a new pattern, which seems to have worked.

My suggestion is to become a Fundamentalist Mormon, or perhaps a Muslim in a foreign country so you can follow your lusts. Oh right, because polygamy is illegal in the USA and Canada. Even the Mormons aren't allowed more than one wife, except in the weirdo break away sects. We have one of those in BC, and they were just convicted of polygamy and child rape and child abduction across a border. I'm sure the same thing happens all the time in the US with people who break the law. You do believe one should obey the law, right?

 

[Naboth]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

I am not arguing that a man will not have problems in polygamy, any more than a man who only marries one wife will have problems. Would you suggest that we do not marry, in order to avoid problems? I am not sure what you meant by whoredom, or what gives you such certainty that polygamy will lead to all those other problems that you listed. Seriously, the Civil Wars prediction is way out there!



Esau planned to kill Jacob, and his parents were monogamous.



Look at Cain, a totally evil murderer, and as far as we know, monogamous.



The wrong race? Canaanites had some wicked practices! It wasn't being from a particular race that was displeasing, but the evil practices of that culture. Scripture NEVER indicates that marrying Ishmael's descendants was an error, or displeasing to Esau's parents. You read something that is clearly not found in Scripture.



Which prophet? Perhaps you got Reheboam confused with Jereboam.



Caleb was a righteous man of faith, who along with Joshua, believed God would bring Israel victory over the Canaanites, and whom God rewarded for his faithfulness!



The wife is not the master of the home.



Sleeping around involves no responsibility.



You are entitled to your opinion regarding what you think is better, but don't claim that God condemns polygamy based on that opinion. I reckon God does not intend for you to have multiple wives. If He intended for everyone of the male gender to have multiple wives, He would have made at least twice as many females as males.

Well it's not a bad idea to not get married if you cannot handle the challenges and problems that come from it I suppose. I suppose getting married is the solution to the problem of passion.

As for War, here is the secret of War, all War is a family feud. For Civil Wars, David is again a pretty good example, the Civil War that came in the period of Absalom.

Sure Esau planned to kill Jacob because he was jealous of Jacob. Esau shows again and again how he has no regard for his birthright, his parents , nor God. Esau shows this when he sells his name and birthright to Jacob. He shows it when he displeases his parents by taking to wife the daughters of Heth. Indeed the practices of the Canaanites were not good, but the race of Canaan had been cursed by Noah. On top of that later on it was strictly forbidden for an Israelite to marry a Canaanite. Esau covers one error for merely another error, putting away his wives and taking more.

Yes, you are right I do mean Jeroboam. Still Rehoboam was evil it is said. We also note that one of Rehoboam's wives was loved over the others, and for this reason he purpose to make Abijah the heir.

Yes I do agree Caleb was righteous, and his reward was to enter the Promised Land.

True the wife is not the master of the home, but a good man will serve his wife like God serves the Church. I think therein lies the real heart of the matter. It is better to have one wife and serve her to the fullness of your heart, rather than to have many wives and to either respect one and neglect the others or to try to divide your heart among them. Though the married care for the things of the world, a good couple will be a living symbol of The Lord and the Bride. If one cannot be that symbol, it would seem to me better to die a virgin that one might attain to the first resurrection. This seems to me to be the wisdom of Paul on the matters of marriage.

Yes, sleeping around involves no responsibility, but rather the lack of it.

I do not claim God condemns the polygamist, for God needs not to condemn any man. Nor do I condemn the polygamist, for then I would have to condemn the majority of my generation and the one before it. Though their acts I will indeed condemn because it has brought so much hurt and problems upon both of our generations, even for themselves. The polygamist will be condemned by his wives, the society that does just like them, and even his own children, and if he has a good heart, perhaps by himself.

Heh I reckon God does not intend for me to have multiple wives either. One would be enough for me, but as of right now I have none lol. I find your last part here somewhat ironic for a proponent of polygamy, but I find it makes sense also.

 

[samuel23]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Polygamy in and of itself was never called a sin in the bible, that is a fact. I don't see any reason for it, but if something happened where there was a great shortage of men I do not see that it would be a sin. Jesus told a parable of one man who was to marry ten women. Paul said that a leader in the church could only have one wife, probably more because of the responsibilities of the church then anything else. At any rate, why would any normal man want more then one wife? One woman is enough for any man(my opinion). There is the place in the bible where seven women will ask a man to marry then, obviously because of a shortage of men. To sum this up, one man for one woman is best, several women for one man, maybe in an extreme case.

 

[Naboth]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Polygamy in and of itself was never called a sin in the bible, that is a fact. I don't see any reason for it, but if something happened where there was a great shortage of men I do not see that it would be a sin. Jesus told a parable of one man who was to marry ten women. Paul said that a leader in the church could only have one wife, probably more because of the responsibilities of the church then anything else. At any rate, why would any normal man want more then one wife? One woman is enough for any man(my opinion). There is the place in the bible where seven women will ask a man to marry then, obviously because of a shortage of men. To sum this up, one man for one woman is best, several women for one man, maybe in an extreme case.

I have thought on that bolded verse before, though I don't think it is for a shortage of men, but rather a shortage of men of God and because the state of women will be not so good. Even offering to pay for their own things if only to be called by the man's name to take away their reproach. Lol quite the offer I suppose though I do agree it be better to have just one wife and pour all your love into her.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Dan, for a Southern Baptist, you sure are confused. I went to a Southern Baptist Seminary., where I got my MDiv. I got ordained by a different denomination, because the SBC only rarely ordains women. (different thread!)

I am not confused. I have read my Bible. The SBC denomination itself holds to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

My point being, I was extensively exposed to SB history and theology. And never was polygamy mentioned as an option. In fact, it wasn't even mentioned, because it has nothing to do with SB, because it is totally and utterly wrong, no one would ever think someone deciding polygamy was actually an option in this century.

You claim that it is wrong, but offer no support for that assertion. That is a Logical Fallacy.

The only reason I can think of a man wanting to be polygamous is lust. Pure and unbridled lust. Polygamy happened in the OT, because there were so many less women than men, because of wars. Yes, many more men died in wars, than women died in childbirth. So there was a method to their madness. Plus, the women rarely had self-supporting jobs or income. It was a blessing to be married to any man that was willing to support you and their children, regardless of other wives.

I wonder when the statement, "A good man is hard to find" no longer held true. More men are in prison than women, by far. There is still war going on, and while American deaths in war are relatively minimal, there are still major casualties on the other side. Thanks to modern medicine, fewer women die in childbirth. Atheist men outnumber atheist women 20 to one. Guess where all those atheist men are finding their wives. It starts with "ch", ends in "ch" and has a "ur" in the middle.

This has got to be one of the stupidest threads that I have ever read. With an OP, lobbying for polytheism! Tell you what, take this up with your Southern Baptist pastor, and see what he says. I guarantee, if he is at all faithful to the Bible, and to the denomination, he will tell you exactly what everyone has been saying!

Now you are resorting to insulting. That is not an argument based on sound logic, or reasoning, nor is there ANY Biblical argument behind it! My pastor is not infallible. We Southern Baptists recognize this. I know he is faithful to the Bible, and I know how he would answer this question, but that does not mean that he is right. I would rather not get myself and my family kicked out of the church.

As for only a "bishop" or presbyter, being "the husband of one wife" what was the reason they were supposed to have only wife? Because that is the ideal situation in marriage. The leaders are modelling what the congregation are supposed to be believing and acting upon. So if the bishops must only have one wife, it is also expected of the others in the congregation. It was to establish a new pattern, which seems to have worked.

Paul does not say why the church leader should have only one wife, and there are multiple attempts to explain this from theologists, the vast majority believe as you do regarding monogamy. You are leaping to a conclusion to assume that the leaders are modelling what the congregation is supposed to be believing and acting upon. you are simply adding to the Word of God, which Revelations clearly warns against! As to whether it works, how many battered women do you know about who live in monogamous marriages? How many alcoholic fathers abuse their wives and children? Why do women have to marry the "leftovers"? The answer is simple; we are following the "traditions of men".

My suggestion is to become a Fundamentalist Mormon, or perhaps a Muslim in a foreign country so you can follow your lusts. Oh right, because polygamy is illegal in the USA and Canada. Even the Mormons aren't allowed more than one wife, except in the weirdo break away sects. We have one of those in BC, and they were just convicted of polygamy and child rape and child abduction across a border. I'm sure the same thing happens all the time in the US with people who break the law. You do believe one should obey the law, right?

Mormonism and Islam are False religions. I do not believe that a Christian ought to break the law, but I see no valid reason for that law to remain. I believe that a Christian who desires to engage in Plural marriage ought to seek a waiver to their state's bigamy laws. As a Conservative, I am uncomfortable with the idea of fighting these laws in our crooked Court system, although, I am sure the 9th circuit would be a good candidate to do so, if one desired to do so.

It is sad when anyone, whether polygamous or monogamous rapes or abducts a child. I am the son of a monogamous man who molested his own daughters for many years. This crime is not exclusively the domain of polygamists.

As for your insulting tone, I do not find it Christ-like. Please remove the beam from your own eye, so you can see clearly to remove any speck you might find in your brother's eye.

 

[trofimus]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Using possible favoritism as an argument against polygamy is as wrong as use it against having more than one child.

Not a good one, IMHO.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Well it's not a bad idea to not get married if you cannot handle the challenges and problems that come from it I suppose. I suppose getting married is the solution to the problem of passion.

We all know men who for whatever reason, seem to have the gift of singleness. Unfortunately, there are many more women who desire marriage, than men willing to marry. Perhaps that is because our society has marriage upside down. I had a friend of my wife call me on the phone one time, and ask if she could speak to "the boss". What have we come to? The idea that a wife should be the head, is completely backward from Scripture. I digress. As you said, if a man cannot handle the challenges of being married, he should stay single. Likewise, if a man cannot handle the challenges of having multiple wives, he should only have one.

As for War, here is the secret of War, all War is a family feud. For Civil Wars, David is again a pretty good example, the Civil War that came in the period of Absalom.

I think we beat that dead horse long enough! The war was NOT the result of polygamy, but the result of David's sin with Bathsheba and subsequent murder. Have you got any other examples?

Sure Esau planned to kill Jacob because he was jealous of Jacob. Esau shows again and again how he has no regard for his birthright, his parents , nor God. Esau shows this when he sells his name and birthright to Jacob. He shows it when he displeases his parents by taking to wife the daughters of Heth. Indeed the practices of the Canaanites were not good, but the race of Canaan had been cursed by Noah. On top of that later on it was strictly forbidden for an Israelite to marry a Canaanite. Esau covers one error for merely another error, putting away his wives and taking more.

Likewise, Abimelech had his brothers killed off, because he wanted to rule. His own evil desires led to his evil behavior. It had nothing to do with Gideon's polygamy. Multiple Judges had many wives, and no such atrocity resulted!

Yes, you are right I do mean Jeroboam. Still Rehoboam was evil it is said. We also note that one of Rehoboam's wives was loved over the others, and for this reason he purpose to make Abijah the heir.

That is one of the problems with Israel having a king. Only one heir can inherit the throne. The only reason I brought up Reheboam and Abijah, Esau, and Lamech, is that there is no mention in Scripture of either of them having jealousy problems. This refutes your claim that multiple spouses ALWAYS leads to preferential treatment. Whether these men were righteous or not, is immaterial; your claim is still refuted.

Yes I do agree Caleb was righteous, and his reward was to enter the Promised Land.

Now we are getting somewhere.

True the wife is not the master of the home, but a good man will serve his wife like God serves the Church. I think therein lies the real heart of the matter. It is better to have one wife and serve her to the fullness of your heart, rather than to have many wives and to either respect one and neglect the others or to try to divide your heart among them. Though the married care for the things of the world, a good couple will be a living symbol of The Lord and the Bride. If one cannot be that symbol, it would seem to me better to die a virgin that one might attain to the first resurrection. This seems to me to be the wisdom of Paul on the matters of marriage.

The Bride of Christ is found in Revelations. It is the New Jerusalem that Paul refers to as our mother in Galatians. A couple is not a model of Christ and the "Bride" but a model of Christ and his BODY. Reread the passage in Ephesians that I believe you are alluding to. Nowhere is the word "Bride" mentioned.

Yes, sleeping around involves no responsibility, but rather the lack of it.

So then would you agree that the disastrous results of sleeping around have nothing to do with polygamy?

I do not claim God condemns the polygamist, for God needs not to condemn any man. Nor do I condemn the polygamist, for then I would have to condemn the majority of my generation and the one before it. Though their acts I will indeed condemn because it has brought so much hurt and problems upon both of our generations, even for themselves. The polygamist will be condemned by his wives, the society that does just like them, and even his own children, and if he has a good heart, perhaps by himself.

We have already mentioned Caleb, and there are a number of righteous Judges who are NOT condemned by there wives.

Heh I reckon God does not intend for me to have multiple wives either. One would be enough for me, but as of right now I have none lol. I find your last part here somewhat ironic for a proponent of polygamy, but I find it makes sense also.

I do not claim to be a proponent of polygamy. That implies that I think every man should have multiple wives. We all recognize that God has given some men the gift of singleness. Can we now at least reach an understanding that God has also given other men the gift of polygyny?

 

[Magenta]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

I am not confused. ...

Paul does not say why the church leader should have only one wife,

I take it being faithful to and rejoicing in the wife of your youth holds no meaning for you. I wonder why those clear words are so difficult for some men to accept. It is written plain as day, and has been given time and again, and overlooked and argued against, and pretended it means something other than what it explicitly says. It is an exhortation to ALL men to keep the word of their commitments.

You ask, "Why?" It is because the LORD is the witness between you and the wife of your youth. You have been unfaithful to her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant.
*... rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy
thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

If you are satisfied with your first wife at all times, rejoicing in her, and being faithful to her, it logically follows that you do not go chasing down a second, or third, or fourth wife.

 

[Naboth]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

We all know men who for whatever reason, seem to have the gift of singleness. Unfortunately, there are many more women who desire marriage, than men willing to marry. Perhaps that is because our society has marriage upside down. I had a friend of my wife call me on the phone one time, and ask if she could speak to "the boss". What have we come to? The idea that a wife should be the head, is completely backward from Scripture. I digress. As you said, if a man cannot handle the challenges of being married, he should stay single. Likewise, if a man cannot handle the challenges of having multiple wives, he should only have one.

I would agree. Lol oh there's quite a few reasons for remaining single, not all of them reasons chosen either lol, your ponderings on the sorry state of society and the evils of feminism might have a bit to do with it, but then we'll be in a whole other topic.

I think we beat that dead horse long enough! The war was NOT the result of polygamy, but the result of David's sin with Bathsheba and subsequent murder. Have you got any other examples?

Well it has somewhat to do with polygamy. Nathan's parable of the man with many sheep taking from the man that has only one. The punishment that God would rise up troubles within David's own house. The strife between Amnon and Absalom. The strife between Absalom and David. It is quite a revealing a episode really.

Likewise, Abimelech had his brothers killed off, because he wanted to rule. His own evil desires led to his evil behavior. It had nothing to do with Gideon's polygamy. Multiple Judges had many wives, and no such atrocity resulted!

True it did have to do with Abimelech's desire to rule, but then it has to do with Gideon's polygamy as well as he went to his house of his mother's father to make his claim. They were inclined to follow him because he was their brother, but he wanted more it seems.

That is one of the problems with Israel having a king. Only one heir can inherit the throne. The only reason I brought up Reheboam and Abijah, Esau, and Lamech, is that there is no mention in Scripture of either of them having jealousy problems. This refutes your claim that multiple spouses ALWAYS leads to preferential treatment. Whether these men were righteous or not, is immaterial; your claim is still refuted.

Well it doesn't always mean preferential treatment, but that seems to be the most common problem. There are others though; confusion, wrath, dishonor, etc. Rehoboam wanted Abijah to be heir because he favored his mother above his wives. Esau was hated because he dishonored his parents and made Rebekkah fret by marrying Heth's daughters and he never got that favor back for marrying Ishmael's daughters. Lamech of House Cain, was prideful and vain demanding his wives to hear his boast about the man he had slain. Rachel was loved but Leah was hated. Hannah's adversary Penninah provoked her. It goes on and on.

Now we are getting somewhere.

Heh, we're really right back to where we were before lol.

The Bride of Christ is found in Revelations. It is the New Jerusalem that Paul refers to as our mother in Galatians. A couple is not a model of Christ and the "Bride" but a model of Christ and his BODY. Reread the passage in Ephesians that I believe you are alluding to. Nowhere is the word "Bride" mentioned.

No I am not alluding to Ephesians, though that's not a bad thought either. Indeed the Bride is New Jerusalem. The patient Christ waits for his Bride, in whom are all his children. Waiting for the day to be with her and only her. He will dwell in her with all his children and be happy forever. Their marriage consummated in an eternal day that will never end.

So then would you agree that the disastrous results of sleeping around have nothing to do with polygamy?

No, because sleeping around is pretty much polygamy. From my virgin stand point all of you that have had sex with more than one mate are polyamorists. Now I don't dislike you all because of that, most of your generation and my generation are polyamorists. I can't deny though the extreme hurt and destruction it has caused to society and even yourselves though because I see it all the time with my own eyes. I f you will not be able to bear seeing it in society in front of you, it's an unorthodox suggestion, but watch some Jerry Springer and watch how this coin is turned around and the common patterns of this situation come up over and over.

We have already mentioned Caleb, and there are a number of righteous Judges who are NOT condemned by there wives.

Yea but there is many that are. Even outside the Bible right in today's time the pain it has caused my brethren is terrible. Why do the feminists hate men? Why do the Millennials abhor their fathers?

I do not claim to be a proponent of polygamy. That implies that I think every man should have multiple wives. We all recognize that God has given some men the gift of singleness. Can we now at least reach an understanding that God has also given other men the gift of polygyny?

Well I don't mean that you are a proponent of saying every man should be a polygamist, you just seem to me like you support polygamy. No, I would not agree that golygamy is a gift from God, nor do I think being single is a gift either. The gift to the male virgins being forced by the world to remain single is the first resurrection and being allowed to judge the world for 1,000 years.

I think polygamy is selfish. A man is given a gift of having one wife, his one companion to love him and him to pour his love into her, but the polygamist says it was not good enough? I mean what is the polygamist going to tell the single man, that he is giving him a gift of being single because the polygamist has slept with all the women and defiled them? Truly, the single man will resent him for that saying and curse the polygamist's entire generation and the single man will lament his own bastard generation and even his own life.

 

[Blik]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

The Lord explained marriage and sex as He created it in the first of Genesis. He made woman of a part of man, then they united and became as one. It wasn't to have an additional half stuck on. Or two halves of the same trying to come together as one as in a homosexual union.

There are many reports in scripture of people ignoring this truth, even David did. But there is no place in scripture saying God wanted them to ignore His truth, but scripture reports the grief it caused to ignore Him. David died a broken old man, and his first baby with Bathsheba died.

Scripture tells it like it is, it reports the sins of the people it speaks of. Translators of the original Hebrew always tried to make the original frank language about sex sound better, but there is a huge difference between reporting the truth of what people did and reporting how God created our world to operate for our joy and abundance.

 

[samuel23]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

David did not die a broken old man because he had more then one wife, there is a place where God told David that He gave him the wives. I do not think that polygamy would ever be popular because given a choice most folks just would not go that way. In the OT polygamy was not called a sin.

 

[Blik]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

David did not die a broken old man because he had more then one wife, there is a place where God told David that He gave him the wives. I do not think that polygamy would ever be popular because given a choice most folks just would not go that way. In the OT polygamy was not called a sin.

I didn't say it was "because of more than one wife" that David died a grief stricken man, I said he did. Scripture doesn't tell us exactly why, only he grieved about his children.

Would you give us where God told David He gave him wives? Do you think God told David it was how He created the world to be, to have multiple partners? Seems to me God said "the two shall become one". Even when scripture reports that Hosea married a whore, scripture doesn't say whoring is just fine and leads to happiness.

 

[trofimus]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

David did not die a broken old man because he had more then one wife, there is a place where God told David that He gave him the wives. I do not think that polygamy would ever be popular because given a choice most folks just would not go that way. In the OT polygamy was not called a sin.

Here is the verse:

"I gave your master's house to you, and your master's wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more."

2Sam 12:8

 

[GuessWho]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Nowhere does the Bible indicate that it is better to pour all your affection into one woman.

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[b][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]8 and the two will become one flesh.’[c] So they are no longer two, but one flesh.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

(Mark 10:5-12)[/FONT]

 

[BigJa]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

I do not now how men turn God's clear admonition to be faithful to your wife
into permission to go get more. Clearly it is a perversion, and a refusal to obey.

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; KJV 1 Tim 3:2

An elder must be blameless, the husband of one wife, having children who are believers and are not open to accusation of indiscretion or insubordination. Titus 1:6

And this second thing you do. You cover the Lord's altar with tears, with weeping and groaning because he no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand. 14 But you say, “Why does he not?” Because the Lord was witness between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. 15 Did he not make them one, with a portion of the Spirit in their union? And what was the one God seeking? Godly offspring. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and let none of you be faithless to the wife of your youth.16 “For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her, says the Lord, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says the Lord of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless.”Malachi 2:13-16

May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. Prov 5:18

It is not just, do not divorce, but be faithful to the wife of your youth.

Does God allow or gives a man more than one wife?

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

I take it being faithful to and rejoicing in the wife of your youth holds no meaning for you. I wonder why those clear words are so difficult for some men to accept. It is written plain as day, and has been given time and again, and overlooked and argued against, and pretended it means something other than what it explicitly says. It is an exhortation to ALL men to keep the word of their commitments.

You ask, "Why?" It is because the LORD is the witness between you and the wife of your youth. You have been unfaithful to her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant.

A text without a context is a pretext. vs 16 clearly explains what the prophet meant by "unfathful". No guesswork is necessary, unless you wish to employ eisegesis, and make it mean something other than divorce.

*... rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

Written by a polygamist.

Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy
thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

Written by the same polygamist.

If you are satisfied with your first wife at all times, rejoicing in her, and being faithful to her, it logically follows that you do not go chasing down a second, or third, or fourth wife.

True, but that does not mean God won't put a second a third wife in your path. It also does not justify the unBiblical legalism that condemns polygamists families.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a]7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[b]8 and the two will become one flesh.’[c] So they are no longer two, but one flesh.9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

(Mark 10:5-12)

Nice passages of Scripture refuting the idea that a man can divorce his wife for any cause. Now, the point I made was that Scripture does not say that it is better to pour all of your affection into one woman. Do you know of any verse in the Bible that refutes this?